GWT: PL Matchweek 3

[Havre]

The thing is though - Klopp plays Milner and Wijnaldum and they look on fire (at times). Guardiola plays Delph as left back and it still works. Even Harry Redknapp got 2+2 to become slightly more than 4.

Ferguson always had players that look OK for Utd, but that failed elsewhere. Players like O'Shea, Brown, Butt etc. steadily contributed for Ferguson. For Mourinho these last years it seems like players under him play better elsewhere (Pogba and Lindelof being the latest examples for their national teams).

Decision making, technical ability etc. is all linked to confidence. In his first spell at Chelsea it seemed like players could walk on water for Mourinho (true for Porto and Inter as well). Now the effect seem to be negative instead.

 

[Gecklund]

There's still too much dead weight at United for them to compete for the league title even if Mourinho were sacked today.

Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Juan Mata, and Fellaini are all Championship quality players at this point of their careers.

The rest fall into the following categories:

Barely PL quality: Darmian, Smalling, Rojo, and Lindelof, though the latter is young, Bailly has not been in good form since his last injury, either. For the midfield. I'd put Pereira and McTominay here too. They're not good enough for a side like United yet.

PL quality: Shaw, Valencia, Herrera, Matic, Fred, Martial, Sanchez

Above average PL quality: Rashford, Lukaku

World Class: Pogba, De Gea

A lot of middle of the road players with few world class players. It's going to be a long road unless United spend smarter and better under a new manager along with (hopefully) a new footballing director.

These categories are very reactive. Mata would be fine if we didn’t play him out of position. Saying any United players are championship level is wrong. Darmian, Smalling, Rojo, Bailly, and Lindelof are definitely PL quality. Honestly you could move up like half of these people a tier and you’d be closer to correct than what you are.

 

[Evilo]

Blaming the roster is laughable.

 

[I Eat Crow]

These categories are very reactive. Mata would be fine if we didn’t play him out of position. Saying any United players are championship level is wrong. Darmian, Smalling, Rojo, Bailly, and Lindelof are definitely PL quality. Honestly you could move up like half of these people a tier and you’d be closer to correct than what you are.

Individually they might be. Under Mourinho and playing together they're shite. They're bleeding high quality chances against.

Are we talking about the same Mata with only one goal scored in 2018? I agree he's a 10 rather than a winger. He plays on the right side because no one else can. Maybe try Martial there? He was very successful there and at striker with Monaco.

 

[Gecklund]

Individually they might be. Under Mourinho and playing together they're ****e. They're bleeding high quality chances against.

Are we talking about the same Mata with only one goal scored in 2018? I agree he's a 10 rather than a winger. He plays on the right side because no one else can. Maybe try Martial there? He was very successful there and at striker with Monaco.

You think that’s because of the individual players and not because of the tactics? I think that United for get the person to allow Woodward to just focus on the business side and then let Mou go and get Blanc. Before getting rid of a bunch of players, get a new coach in and let them decide who they want and what they need. Maybe in more of a possession based system, Lindelof, Bailly, and Fred look better, Pogba is more consistent and Lukaku becomes more like Cavani.

 

[Evilo]

Players that all underperform is due to their coach.
Negative tactics are often due to the coach (though understandable for smaller teams against giant teams).


When a team overachieves, the coach is certainly playing a role too.
Positive tactics that get results are also due to the coach.

 

[I Eat Crow]

You think that’s because of the individual players and not because of the tactics? I think that United for get the person to allow Woodward to just focus on the business side and then let Mou go and get Blanc. Before getting rid of a bunch of players, get a new coach in and let them decide who they want and what they need. Maybe in more of a possession based system, Lindelof, Bailly, and Fred look better, Pogba is more consistent and Lukaku becomes more like Cavani.

In some cases, yes. Never thought Jones, Young, or Darmian were that good to be honest. I rated Bailly very highly up until this year. Injuries have done a number on him, it looks like.

Parking the bus completely neutralizes a player like Pogba who is supposed to be a centerpiece of the team and the general of the midfield. Martial has stagnated ever since Mourinho became the boss after looking great under van Gaal in his first year.

There is talent on the squad, but it's hardly utilized well. There are players like Matic and Fellaini that are tailor made for Mourinho ball. The other half of the squad is like square pegs in round holes. The two aforementioned players, in particular, have suffered greatly.

 

[hatterson]

When it's one or two players on a team underperforming you can generally blame the player or the fit in the system. When players are underperforming across the board it makes much more sense that the coach with backwards tactics is holding them back than that they're all coincidentally going through extended slumps at the exact same time, many of which coincidentally end when they play for a different team.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The issue preceded Mourinho though. Same happened with Moyes and Van Gaal,. All three of those are capable guys, two of them are legends. We've seen this type of issue before at other clubs, too, and it usually hints at problems at the leadership level. Whatever they're doing to put together teams at United, it doesn't work post-Ferguson. And I suspect that they never properly filled the gap left by Ferguson in the aspects that go beyond day-to-day management.

 

[YNWA14]

I think it's a combination of coaching and players being overrated. Pogba thrives when surrounded by players that can alleviate his workload and are as good or better than him. He's never shown the ability to elevate the players around him. Fred has looked disastrous and Lukaku is a stump. Even de Gea looks shaky as hell lately. Shaw looked bright against Spurs but needs to show consistency though you know the talent is there.

Honestly, if you look at all of the other top 6 who from United would you even take? Arsenal could use Matic, and all the teams would probably take Pogba but otherwise that roster is pretty poor. Mourinho did well to get as much out of it as he did last season. The game is clearly passing him by but I wouldn't expect that roster to beat any of City, Liverpool, Chelsea or Spurs if both teams have good managers and are in form.

United are just **** all around. It's lovely.

 

[S E P H]

Blaming the roster is laughable.

Why you say that? Their roster isn't good enough to win the title in its current state - all they are is a top 4 contender at best. They have lousy CB's, below-average midfield except for Herrera and Pogba (Matic has regressed big time), and even though I quite like Lukaku he doesn't have the technique skills to be a consistent striker (has high-highs and low-lows). Sanchez looks like he's done, especially the way he plays the game with his insane work ethic. Rashford is good yet overrated because he plays for United. Martial is meh at best. All they need is Draxler and he can win them the league, am I right or what?

 

[YEM]

I just don't really understand how UTD apparently have $200 million worth of square peg players

 

[hatterson]

I just don't really understand how UTD apparently have $200 million worth of square peg players

A non-football mind is the final say in transfers is how.

 

[Evilo]

The issue preceded Mourinho though. Same happened with Moyes and Van Gaal,. All three of those are capable guys, two of them are legends. We've seen this type of issue before at other clubs, too, and it usually hints at problems at the leadership level. Whatever they're doing to put together teams at United, it doesn't work post-Ferguson. And I suspect that they never properly filled the gap left by Ferguson in the aspects that go beyond day-to-day management.

Moyes isn't capable.
LVG and Mourinho have lost it for almost a decade.

That'd be like saying Wenger should be hired by United.

 

[Evilo]

I think it's a combination of coaching and players being overrated. Pogba thrives when surrounded by players that can alleviate his workload and are as good or better than him. He's never shown the ability to elevate the players around him.

Wrong.

 

[Evilo]

Why you say that? Their roster isn't good enough to win the title in its current state - all they are is a top 4 contender at best. They have lousy CB's, below-average midfield except for Herrera and Pogba (Matic has regressed big time), and even though I quite like Lukaku he doesn't have the technique skills to be a consistent striker (has high-highs and low-lows). Sanchez looks like he's done, especially the way he plays the game with his insane work ethic. Rashford is good yet overrated because he plays for United. Martial is meh at best. All they need is Draxler and he can win them the league, am I right or what?

It's not a better roster than City. Comparable to Liverpool. Better than the rest.
But the roster doesn't explain the awful showing.

All they need is a capable coach and they're easily 3rd.

 

[S E P H]

It's not a better roster than City. Comparable to Liverpool. Better than the rest.
But the roster doesn't explain the awful showing.

All they need is a capable coach and they're easily 3rd.

I don't disagree, but give me Spurs over them as well - Tot are much more potent in attack and clinically. In terms of rankings it goes City, Liverpool, Spurs, United, and whatever remains. However Chelsea should pass them once Sarri gets some of his players in the transfer window. Additionally, Emery is better than whatever we had in Wenger the past five years and if he's able to get funds to spend on the players he wants they will surely pass zero-buy Spurs and United easily (it's an "if" though).

 

[YNWA14]

It's not a better roster than City. Comparable to Liverpool. Better than the rest.
But the roster doesn't explain the awful showing.

All they need is a capable coach and they're easily 3rd.

So much wrong with this post.

 

[Evilo]

So much wrong with this post.

Coming from you, it's quite a compliment.

 

[YNWA14]

Coming from you, it's quite a compliment.

You should stick to leagues you watch and sort of understand is all. The only roster that United is close to in the top 6 is Arsenal.

 

[Gecklund]

You should stick to leagues you watch and sort of understand is all. The only roster that United is close to in the top 6 is Arsenal.

That's hilarious that because of a coach that plays awful tactics, every single United player is awful now.

 

[hatterson]

I love how an awful team with awful players and an awful manager comfortably finished ahead of these teams that are much better than them last year.

 

[YNWA14]

That's hilarious that because of a coach that plays awful tactics, every single United player is awful now.

That coach is the reason a limited roster like United's did what they did last season. His style of play isn't sustainable though. Who on United would you genuinely have on the other top 6 teams?

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

That coach is the reason a limited roster like United's did what they did last season. His style of play isn't sustainable though. Who on United would you genuinely have on the other top 6 teams?

I'd say De Gea and Pogba would make every starting XI.

 

[The Abusement Park]

That coach is the reason a limited roster like United's did what they did last season. His style of play isn't sustainable though. Who on United would you genuinely have on the other top 6 teams?

As starters or depth players?