GWT: PL Matchweek 27

[Live in the Now]

This is the best English team in history, the one we are watching now.

 

[AB13]

Which players from this Liverpool team would get into a combined 11 with Arsenal 01-04 or United 99-01? Maybe Trent, Alisson and VVD would get into The Invincibles, but Trent and Alisson are very debatable. Trent, VVD, Salah, Robertson and Firmino could make it into United 99, but that is pushing it on a few of them. They are absolutely a top 5 team of all time in England, but first is very reactionary and a bit over the top. Not sure if they are better than the City team from 2017-18 either. They are great to watch and completely dominant, the way they built it deserves all respect too ( unlike the titles City and Chelsea purchased). Klopp is an absolute genius just like Wenger and Fergie.

 

[Machinehead]

A team that's shattering every record ever conceived has gotten a few breaks. More at 11.

36 matches played, 35 wins. Never happened before this team, probably won't ever happen after this team.

 

[Live in the Now]

Which players from this Liverpool team would get into a combined 11 with Arsenal 01-04 or United 99-01? Maybe Trent, Alisson and VVD would get into The Invincibles, but Trent and Alisson are very debatable. Trent, VVD, Salah, Robertson and Firmino could make it into United 99, but that is pushing it on a few of them. They are absolutely a top 5 team of all time in England, but first is very reactionary and a bit over the top. Not sure if they are better than the City team from 2017-18 either. They are great to watch and completely dominant, the way they built it deserves all respect too ( unlike the titles City and Chelsea purchased). Klopp is an absolute genius just like Wenger and Fergie.

I don’t have the desire to argue about this, but Alisson, VVD, Trent, Mane, and Salah would be in and in some of those cases really easily. There are others where it is similar so there isn’t a point in bringing them up.

 

[hatterson]

This Liverpool is the epitome of team over individual talent so I'm not sure why picking which individual players would make it into other teams should be meaningful....

 

[The Abusement Park]

The invincibles played in a much tougher era when teams would win the league on about 78-80 points, a time in which any PL team could beat anyone. On paper the invincibles are the best team in PL history, not even up for debate. Manchester United in 1999 are second, and far ahead of the rest. Not losing a single game is a testament to longevity more than anything else, getting 110 points but still losing would be less impressive.

The best player in PL history in Henry leading the line, all time great Bergkamp supplying him, the ultimate complete midfielder in Vieira commanding the midfield and a rock solid, no nonsense central defensive partnership. This Liverpool team would not stand a tiny little chance on earth against that.

It is very much up for debate whether or not the Invicibles are the best EPL team ever or not.

 

[YNWA14]

The only people I know that think the Invincibles are the best team ever are Arsenal fans. Before this season it was between Chelsea and recent City for me. Stretching back to last season and if this one continues as is it’s hard to look past 19/20 Liverpool.

 

[hatterson]

Arsenal had the league wrapped up extremely early and drew most of the games they drew were very late on with a little amount of games to go in which they rested a bunch of stars, without that much to play for. People like to use draws as an argument against Arsenal, but the fact is, no team was that good against that high quaility opposition, and of course no one went unbeaten because it is basically impossible.

They drew 3 games (out of 6) after the league was reasonably clinched.

After matchweek 30 they were 7 up on Chelsea with 8 to play. That's comfortable, but far from "start resting all your starters" comfortable. week 31 they both won, 32 they both drew so it was still a 7 point gap with 6 to play. Again, a comfortable lead, but far from "rest everyone" status. MW 33 pretty much sealed it when Arsenal won and Chelsea lost to bump it to 10.

Also, why would they have been resting everyone given they weren't involved in any other competitions that year. They were already out of the FA cup, league cup, and CL. You'd think if invincibles was such an amazing and sought after achievement they'd have been playing their players instead of resting them so they're fresh for summer vacation....

 

[hatterson]

It is very much up for debate whether or not the Invicibles are the best EPL team ever or not.

It's really not. They simply aren't by any reasonable analysis and I'd say they aren't even top 5.

The only people I know that think the Invincibles are the best team ever are Arsenal fans. Before this season it was between Chelsea and recent City for me. Stretching back to last season and if this one continues as is it’s hard to look past 19/20 Liverpool.

Unless Liverpool losses like 4 out of the last 11 games, they're the best ever. Even going something like 7-2-2 has them easily on the throne.

If you're counting multi-season run of form, this team already has it. Since the start of the 18-19 season Liverpool have played at a 103 point pace for 65 games (only 1 loss in that stretch). It's unprecedented in top tier world football, nevermind just England.

 

[Chimaera]

This Liverpool is the epitome of team over individual talent so I'm not sure why picking which individual players would make it into other teams should be meaningful....

This is just not that true.

I mean, they’re collectively great, but they arguably have the best left back, central defender, right back and keeper in the game. At worst, they’re in the top two or three. Probably also two or three depending on how you want to evaluate them of the best forwards in the world. I think either Salah or Mane are elite, and only Firmino does what he does.

I understand making an argument that they collectively outperform their abilities, but they’re also blessed with a bunch of the best two or three at their position.

That’s even before you get into an argument over midfielders, who are severely underrated and have physical abilities that make the squad go

 

[hatterson]

That’s even before you get into an argument over midfielders, who are severely underrated and have physical abilities that make the squad go

That was my point. Not that the players aren’t good, but that the reason this is perhaps the best club team in the sports history is far more due to how they work together and how Klopp has them all clicking in his system than due to it simply being the best collection of individual talent.
Thus simply looking and saying “x isn’t as good an individual players as y was” completely misses the point.

Obviously the players are still fantastically talented on an individual basis, but what makes this team special is how they roll together.

 

[Cassano]

26-1-0 in the best league in the world ATM - we've never seen this sort of run in history.

 

[Chimaera]

And my point is saying they’re collectively great based on team play sells it short. I mean, it might not be the best collection of talent ever, but it’s certainly one of the better top to bottom teams. They have to be. They have four or five of the best at their position currently? Another 4-5 who can hold their own in the top 5-10 at their position?

Sure, it helps that they graft and fight harder than pretty much everyone else, but it’s still a talented squad.

I also think comparing eras and who gets in a comparative XI is silly. It’s fun to talk about, but most of the pros from even a decade or two ago do not have the physical prep and training players now do. Some of the past players were magical, but VVD is a physical specimen that runs faster and is more physical than most of what would have played a couple of decades ago. A lot of the past players wouldn’t get in the team on sheer lack of physical ability. King Kenny was a brilliant footballer, but his era was so far different from today. Heck, players from that Arsenal side even 16-17 years gone aren’t exactly up to the standards of today. Sure, you can make the argument for a few, and if some of them had the development that goes on today, but it’s so silly to try and make a combined roster.


On a side note, if Arsenal fans are going crazy now, it’s only going to get worse as it gets closer. I don’t think they do it, but man, to see them lose the invincibles garbage might send some of them over.

 

[Live in the Now]

I would trade being invincibles for beating Atletico. Already seen enough to know how invincible this team is. No losses in the league since last January. One league loss since May 2018.

I've loved watching some great teams and hated watching some other great teams. None of those teams were as perennially consistent and that alone is something I will never forget. Only their accomplishments will decide if they're better. The simple fact that I watched every game of this run and only watched them take 0 points from a league game that one time is unreal.

The consistent brilliance of it all, I don't know how to put it into words. These teams have had 63 games to target a weakness and beat Liverpool. It only happened one time. Today was arguably the closest to it happening a second time.

 

[AB13]

Everyone put massive weight on stopping Arsenal from going invincible at the time, and Wenger wanted to do everything to prove them wrong. People really underrate the fact that Sir Alex Ferguson was so shook by the invincibles that he payed off a referees mortgage to stop Arsenal from going 50 unbeaten. Until another team go 50 unbeaten they don’t deserve a comparison, lets hope Liverpool don’t do it. They would probably have to go something like 70 unbeaten to compensate for playing in an era where winning is much easier.

I really wonder why Hatterson ( can’t tell if he is being serious) would argue the invincibles are not the best by any reasonable analysis? They went unbeaten in an era where anyone would beat anyone on any given day ( to a much larger extent than today). Nothing is as impressive as that.

It remains to be seen if Liverpool go unbeaten for a full season. Only then, can they call themselves as perenially consistent as Arsenal, although the league is much easier for a top team today. I would not be that surprised if they do it but they have a long way to go still.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Tottenham without Son and Alli is like a player graveyard.

 

[Halladay]

26-1-0 in the best league in the world ATM - we've never seen this sort of run in history.

Only Bayern Munich in 2013-2014 was close to this. They were 25-2-0. They drew their 28th game then lost the next two.

 

[hatterson]

Only Bayern Munich in 2013-2014 was close to this. They were 25-2-0. They drew their 28th game then lost the next two.

Something, something, farmers league.

 

[bluesfan94]

Why are we fighting about the invincibles again? Here let me end the argument. The invincibles were a great team and did something that has yet to be repeated. They deserve accolades for that. This Liverpool team is a great team and has done things never done before. They deserve accolades for that, as well.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, we're fighting because it's squeaky bum time for Arsenal supporters.

The list of major accomplishments they can hang their hat on is that team. If this Liverpool team goes undefeated, and that's a pretty big if, they're not just going to replace them as 'invincibles', they're going to obliterate the comparison. As it stands, this Liverpool team has already gone a full calendar year, plus, without losing a match. Plus they actually won an European Cup.

If they lose that, I'm not sure all the vaunted youth products with comfort them.

 

[bluesfan94]

I mean, we're fighting because it's squeaky bum time for Arsenal supporters.

The list of major accomplishments they can hang their hat on is that team. If this Liverpool team goes undefeated, and that's a pretty big if, they're not just going to replace them as 'invincibles', they're going to obliterate the comparison. As it stands, this Liverpool team has already gone a full calendar year, plus, without losing a match. Plus they actually won an European Cup.

If they lose that, I'm not sure all the vaunted youth products with comfort them.

A Liverpool fan is making fun of another fan base for talking about history. The absolute nerve.

 

[Savant]

I mean, we're fighting because it's squeaky bum time for Arsenal supporters.

The list of major accomplishments they can hang their hat on is that team. If this Liverpool team goes undefeated, and that's a pretty big if, they're not just going to replace them as 'invincibles', they're going to obliterate the comparison. As it stands, this Liverpool team has already gone a full calendar year, plus, without losing a match. Plus they actually won an European Cup.

If they lose that, I'm not sure all the vaunted youth products with comfort them.

This is a bad take.

Arsenal fans have no reason not to cling onto that season as a great accomplishment. Even if LFC does it as well, it doesn’t diminish what Arsenal did. It’s crazy if LFC can do it with less draws but that’s not a reason to dunk on Arsenal. Arsenal has enough to worry about and I would agree with LITN that I would rather advance in CL than go unbeaten. It’s not something I am going to get worked up on. This Liverpool season doesn’t need to go unbeaten to validate it. Not by a long shot.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, that's part of it. As we get closer and closer, Arsenal supporters are going to come out of the woodwork hoping it doesn't happen.

Why else are we having the ludicrous discussion that the invincibles are clearly better. Liverpool have already done it for a fully calendar year. They've won way more matches over that stretch.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I'm not sure either set of supporters is coming out of this looking very shiny, to be honest. The amount of energy you (as a collective) devote to whining about Arsenal seems unhealthy and generally boring.

 

[Savant]

I mean, that's part of it. As we get closer and closer, Arsenal supporters are going to come out of the woodwork hoping it doesn't happen.

Why else are we having the ludicrous discussion that the invincibles are clearly better. Liverpool have already done it for a fully calendar year. They've won way more matches over that stretch.

It’s a media creation. I really believe It’s not about who is better or worse, and if LFC does accomplish that, it’s not going to bury Arsenal either. It’s tough to compare those teams. It is a completely different era. Both groups can be happy. We can revisit this after week 38