GWT: PL Matchweek 19

[YNWA14]

Some people like to say a lot without actually saying anything (of value).

The PL isn’t weak this year. The overall quality is higher. @Savant and @Live in the Now have it spot on.

I don’t know that people can really blame Pep for what Liverpool is doing. They set unreasonably high standards the last two seasons and now Liverpool are trying to reach or even exceed that level but that was always going to be very difficult to sustain. He’s not covering himself in glory or anything this year but some of that is out of his control. It’s the expectations that can really cause a problem. City will be fine and likely comfortably finish in 2nd...and they still have the ability to make noise in Europe.

 

[les Habs]

If they don't make the CL QF or are eliminated by an English team I will be pissed. Dunno how long I'd be pissed for, but that's what my expectations are. To beat all that lot and beat Atletico as well.

Considering your commentary and how good Liverpool are I would say that's a surprisingly low expectation.

Some people like to say a lot without actually saying anything (of value).

Spot on analysis of yourself.

 

[Live in the Now]

I don’t know that people can really blame Pep for what Liverpool is doing. They set unreasonably high standards the last two seasons and now Liverpool are trying to reach or even exceed that level but that was always going to be very difficult to sustain. He’s not covering himself in glory or anything this year but some of that is out of his control. It’s the expectations that can really cause a problem. City will be fine and likely comfortably finish in 2nd...and they still have the ability to make noise in Europe.

He's getting blamed for only having 38 points. Which he absolutely should be blamed for. Now that being said, we can see on the horizon that City fans are going to take this too far and begin demanding that he is removed because they've only just started. They have about five months during which time this will just aggravate them more. Some of them are in deep denial about how good our team is and have been reliant on bogus excuses for why Liverpool has won so many games. To be fair I was just reading the week 1 thread when Liverpool played Norwich and there's some true delusions in there. I'm going to post all of them the day we clinch the title, but here's a good sample

But you can see that Liverpool will not be as solid as they were last year. You can punish them if you have edge. Norwich doesn't have that.

 

[YNWA14]

Spot on analysis of yourself.

Still bitter about getting the Anfield experience for Barca last season I see (though when aren’t you overly bitter?)

Not 4 nothing of course, with good reason. I would be bitter too.

 

[les Habs]

Still bitter about getting the Anfield experience for Barca last season I see (though when aren’t you overly bitter?)

Not 4 nothing of course, with good reason. I would be bitter too.

Whatever false narrative suits you. Of course it's expected since you can't actual counter an argument.

 

[YNWA14]

He's getting blamed for only having 38 points. Which he absolutely should be blamed for. Now that being said, we can see on the horizon that City fans are going to take this too far and begin demanding that he is removed because they've only just started. They have about five months during which time this will just aggravate them more. Some of them are in deep denial about how good our team is and have been reliant on bogus excuses for why Liverpool has won so many games. To be fair I was just reading the week 1 thread when Liverpool played Norwich and there's some true delusions in there. I'm going to post all of them the day we clinch the title, but here's a good sample

To be fair Liverpool have looked vulnerable at times and some teams have played very well against them. The quality overall of the PL is very high right now; Liverpool are starting to hit another level though that they weren’t showing earlier in the season which is encouraging. I think the best XI we have started the Leicester game which helps.

 

[Live in the Now]

Considering your commentary and how good Liverpool are I would say that's a surprisingly low expectation.

It's difficult to know their quality relative to other leagues as they played a rather less difficult CL group. We also did fail to beat one of the teams in the group that has struggled mightily domestically.

So, until the Atletico games anyway, progress in Europe is something that should be hoped for rather than expected.

 

[YNWA14]

Whatever false narrative suits you. Of course it's expected since you can't actual counter an argument.

I don’t engage with you on those things for good reason. You are the expert after all. Please educate us more on the PL which you’ve been the authority on (in my book at the very least) for as long as I can remember.

 

[Savant]

@les Habs I think we are talking about two sides of the same coins. Strong middle class means better teams are dropping points. More parity stronger league. But you don’t see it that way. I bet we have different politics too but let’s not get into that. We are making each other’s arguments at this stage.

 

[les Habs]

It's difficult to know their quality relative to other leagues as they played a rather less difficult CL group. We also did fail to beat one of the teams in the group that has struggled mightily domestically.

So, until the Atletico game anyway, progress in Europe is something that should be hoped for rather than expected.

While I would say Liverpool have looked vulnerable at times and not as good as season's peak form, it most certainly isn't down to the overall quality of the PL as the post above yours laughably claims. That said you can play with anyone so long as you don't suffer a major injury or two. I would say at the moment that anything less than a SF appearance and really a Final appearance would leave me disappointed were I a supporter.

As for the teams to look out for, I'd say Barça, Madrid, PSG, City and Juventus would be the teams to look out for. Form would play a big part in all of those cases though even if it shouldn't.

 

[les Habs]

I don’t engage with you on those things for good reason. You are the expert after all. Please educate us more on the PL which you’ve been the authority on (in my book at the very least) for as long as I can remember.

LOL, laughably hypocritical per usual. Anyway, once again you don't have an argument. Nothing new.

@les Habs I think we are talking about two sides of the same coins. Strong middle class means better teams are dropping points. More parity stronger league. But you don’t see it that way. I bet we have different politics too but let’s not get into that. We are making each other’s arguments at this stage.

It doesn't though. Strong "middle class" could mean better teams are dropping points, but as I mentioned it's down to other reasons. And if those "middle class" clubs were stronger (than last season at least), you'd see it in the table considering how bad the top teams apart from Liverpool are doing and you're clearly not seeing that as I demonstrated.

In a general sense over the course of the past few years, the "middle class" has improved and caused some issues, Leicester being a good example, but that isn't the case this season and regardless of season the top teams are still finishing for the most part where you'd expect them to.

 

[Live in the Now]

Was going to say earlier when people were talking about Traore that Jimenez is the real big star at Wolves. There aren't very many #9's in England who have good touch and really good passing ability, and considering the age of some of the strikers on big European sides it's hard to fathom him being at Wolves much longer.

While I would say Liverpool have looked vulnerable at times and not as good as season's peak form, it most certainly isn't down to the overall quality of the PL as the post above yours laughably claims. That said you can play with anyone so long as you don't suffer a major injury or two. I would say at the moment that anything less than a SF appearance and really a Final appearance would leave me disappointed were I a supporter.

As for the teams to look out for, I'd say Barça, Madrid, PSG, City and Juventus would be the teams to look out for. Form would play a big part in all of those cases though even if it shouldn't.

We have some major ones now though. Lovren has been hurt with no update at all. Matip did something to his knee, plus Fabinho and Ox damaged their ankle ligaments. Our CB situation is bad enough that I expect a youth player (or the one recalled from Stuttgart) will start at RB or CB very soon. Considering the CL opponent, the Ox injury is probably the worst of those. Ox's injuries are starting to become one of those things where someone tears their ACL and their body never really recovers, so they keep getting hurt even though they're great when they play. The fixture list is also packed, so further injuries could happen.

The points lead in the league is so large it's hard to believe they will matter there, but in an important game against a strong defensive team there could be some issues. I believe there's also a rumor kicking around about Atletico adding Cavani, and the idiotic cup-tie rules are now gone, so he'd be able to play.

 

[les Habs]

@Savant You mentioned needing 90 points to win the league, so who are the clubs you think will finish with at least 89 points?

We have some major ones now though. Lovren has been hurt with no update at all. Matip did something to his knee, plus Fabinho and Ox damaged their ankle ligaments. Our CB situation is bad enough that I expect a youth player (or the one recalled from Stuttgart) will start at RB or CB very soon. Considering the CL opponent, the Ox injury is probably the worst of those. Ox's injuries are starting to become one of those things where someone tears their ACL and their body never really recovers, so they keep getting hurt even though they're great when they play. The fixture list is also packed, so further injuries could happen.

The points lead in the league is so large it's hard to believe they will matter there, but in an important game against a strong defensive team there could be some issues. I believe there's also a rumor kicking around about Atletico adding Cavani, and the idiotic cup-tie rules are now gone, so he'd be able to play.

While that's a notable number of injuries, I wouldn't call those "major" injuries in that I meant your top players. Matip and Fabinho are important, but I was meant the likes of a Salah, Mane, Firmino, Van Dijk, Alexander-Arnold or Robertson. Still Matip and Fabinho are notable.

 

[Live in the Now]

While that's a notable number of injuries, I wouldn't call those "major" injuries in that I meant your top players. Matip and Fabinho are important, but I was meant the likes of a Salah, Mane, Firmino, Van Dijk, Alexander-Arnold or Robertson. Still Matip and Fabinho are notable.

Those players are more important, but considering the opponent, losing our best shooter from distance and best forward runner from midfield is a big problem to me. If not for Simeone I wouldn't be particularly worried about this at all. I just don't like facing a team that is going to foul constantly and try to win 1-0 over two legs. Carlo had his team foul constantly the same way because this year's Napoli sucks, and Liverpool didn't win either of those games.

 

[les Habs]

Those players are more important, but considering the opponent, losing our best shooter from distance and best forward runner from midfield is a big problem to me. If not for Simeone I wouldn't be particularly worried about this at all. I just don't like facing a team that is going to foul constantly and try to win 1-0 over two legs. Carlo had his team foul constantly the same way because this year's Napoli sucks, and Liverpool didn't win either of those games.

Fair point and I think referencing an example from this season is smart, but Atleti really aren't that good a side at the moment and more importantly when you consider the percentage of Liverpool's goals that come from crosses/headers it will always make them dangerous.

 

[Natey]

Traore is actually quite hard to watch more frequently. You would think he can be world class like Mane or any other productive tricky dribbler but it is not the case. Some games he makes all those dribbles and passes to nobody.

As a Wolves fan.. keep thinking that. In fact, all of you keep thinking that so he can stay at Wolves. The lack of end product WAS true. It's not anymore. He's consistently one of our best on the pitch this season. His growth this year has been unreal.

 

[Halladay]

Yeah, City only averaging 2 points per game so far isn't good enough for the money Pep has spent. Deserves to get criticism for that.

 

[YNWA14]

As a Wolves fan.. keep thinking that. In fact, all of you keep thinking that so he can stay at Wolves. The lack of end product WAS true. It's not anymore. He's consistently one of our best on the pitch this season. His growth this year has been unreal.

Traore has looked the part to me every time I’ve seen Wolves play the season. Can put his head down a little too much at times but mostly just a constant threat. I really don’t expect him to stay in the summer but who knows...clubs like Wolverhampton and Leicester are challenging the traditional hierarchy with great management and have enough financial backing to stay there if they continue with their current projects. I wouldn’t be opposed to Klopp looking at him; think Klopp could work with that kind of raw talent.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Premiership this year around is weaker, can't believe some people are saying it's stronger.
They have a super team and a bunch of teams dropping a lot of points they shouldn't be, just like in Spain this year minus the super team.

 

[Epictetus]

The Wolves players deserve a celebratory rest on Sunday.

 

[Burner Account]

I’ve been calling this the season of four big-six clubs trying their best not to finish top four.

 

[Chimaera]

Nice goal for Mooy. He’s the type of player old Liverpool would’ve bought in the summer

 

[Natey]

Traore has looked the part to me every time I’ve seen Wolves play the season. Can put his head down a little too much at times but mostly just a constant threat. I really don’t expect him to stay in the summer but who knows...clubs like Wolverhampton and Leicester are challenging the traditional hierarchy with great management and have enough financial backing to stay there if they continue with their current projects. I wouldn’t be opposed to Klopp looking at him; think Klopp could work with that kind of raw talent.

Traore is Nuno's boy. Their relationship is fantastic. I don't see him going anywhere.

The only player I could really see leaving is Jimenez, maybe Bennett if he can find a starting job on a lower table premier league team. That would be a huge blow and I hope they talk him into staying. On the bright side, the price they will put on Adama and Jimenez would be astronomical so selling could bring in some big players.

Of course Adama still makes mistakes. But so do elite players. The fact is that he's gone from a late sub threat to someone who is a threat for 90+ minutes is huge.

I seriously love this team. I'm hoping for a big splash in January for our depth so we can make a run at Champions League or winning Europa League.

Will be fun to kick Liverpool's ass tomorrow on no rest.

 

[Natey]

Premiership this year around is weaker, can't believe some people are saying it's stronger.
They have a super team and a bunch of teams dropping a lot of points they shouldn't be, just like in Spain this year minus the super team.

What teams are dropping points they shouldn't?

 

[Vasilevskiy]

What teams are dropping points they shouldn't?

City, Tottenham, Arsenal and United