GWT: PL Matchweek 14

[spintheblackcircle]

Two awful performances against promoted teams, then Spurs and City. Two losses and the 'project' won't mean anything. I love Ole but getting out coached and outplayed by two promoted teams is nowhere near good enough.

Poch is coming.

 

[Savant]

Poch is coming.

Not if they keep dragging their rear end. Someone else will first.

 

[AB13]

I said that he's one of the best playmakers ever, I don't think many will argue that. But he most definitely is not the clear cut best playmaker ever.

I mean do you really think that Payet is an all time great playmaker? Because he's 2nd on that list and while a good player he's not an all timer.

Payet is not an all timer, but in terms of being a pure playmaker he is the conversation to be among the very elite. He played most of his time in Ligue 1 which is a poor league, so that is mainly why he is surprisingly high up the list. Stats isn't really the main part of my reasoning though, as I already mentioned.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Not if they keep dragging their rear end. Someone else will first.

Don't think Poch is in a rush anywhere. He could use the break, and as long as he doesn't get a job, he is getting a severance fee from Spurs.

 

[Havre]

Norwich beat City. Villa and Sheffield are better than Norwich.

Not to forget the trip midweek takes its toll. Disruptive for the preparations.

Not that I think OGS is good enough for a team like Utd, but can read too much into those specific results.

Actually quite shocking how poor Utd and Arsenal's squads are - considering the resources. Villa got a much more balanced them then both of them. Just a lot more intelligently built. Probably even more true for Sheffield, but I don't know Sheffield as well as I do Villa.

 

[Rob]

Happy to see Ozil back in the lineup.

 

[Savant]

Don't think Poch is in a rush anywhere. He could use the break, and as long as he doesn't get a job, he is getting a severance fee from Spurs.

Perhaps, but so many historically good teams have horrendous manager situations right now. Someone may want to take the leap and make a offer he can’t refuse.

 

[YNWA14]

Why have Bellerin, Tierney and Holding not started this season? Because of injuries, they have not been fit. Holding > Evans, Tierney > Chilwell, Bellerin > Pereira.

You’ve got to be joking.

Nobody would take the Arsenal players in any of those comparisons.

 

[phisherman]

Funny how Tierney is shit now that he plays for Arsenal.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Funny how Tierney is **** now that he plays for Arsenal.

He hasn't really played much in the PL yet, so it is hard to compare. But those are some legitimately good players that he was being compared to. Doesn't mean he's shit even if he probably isn't as good as them yet.

 

[Blender]

Funny how Tierney is **** now that he plays for Arsenal.

Literally no one has said that. Chilwell is the same age and is now on his 3rd year of pretty high level of play in the Premier League, while Tierney has been in a lesser league and yet to prove himself at the higher level. Saying Chilwell is better than Tierney until proven otherwise is not a knock on Tierney, Chilwell is a damn good player already.

There is a reason most top clubs are chasing him and the rumoured value Leicester has on him is in the £60m range.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Chilwell might be the best Lefback alongside Robertson in the premier league.

 

[hatterson]

Norwich beat City. Villa and Sheffield are better than Norwich.

Not to forget the trip midweek takes its toll. Disruptive for the preparations.

Not that I think OGS is good enough for a team like Utd, but can read too much into those specific results.

Actually quite shocking how poor Utd and Arsenal's squads are - considering the resources. Villa got a much more balanced them then both of them. Just a lot more intelligently built. Probably even more true for Sheffield, but I don't know Sheffield as well as I do Villa.

OGS sent the u23 squad on Thursday specifically so that the senior team and the expected starting XI wasn’t disrupted by the trip.

If he can’t manage the tactics due to a midweek match, after specifically sending the youth squad so tactics weren’t disrupted, that’s further proof he doesn’t have what it takes.

It is far, far, far more often that I think “why the heck did he set the team up to do that?” than I say “yea, that was a good way to set up the team”

 

[Live in the Now]

Ole has a 41% winning percentage managing in English football, bad enough he got sacked from a Championship team.

Luminaries like Neil Warnock and Steve Bruce have a 40% and 38% winning percentage respectively. So tell me more about these excuses for a horrible manager. You lay it out that way and there's absolutely no excuse at all. United made a horrible emotional decision when he was appointed, but they can't stick to that forever.

United also has a good first team. Not world beaters, but not this bad. The issue is that expectations have been horribly lowered because people have been watching them play dreadful football for an incompetent manager all season. I hope they never move on but it's obviously been time to move on for a while.

 

[hatterson]

OGS was appointed permanent manager on March 28th

Since then United have played 31 games in all comps. Their record is 11 wins, 9 draws, 11 losses. 3 of those wins were in the Europa league, 1 was against a league two side in a cup.

They’re clearly not an elite talented team, but they’re a heck of a lot better than only pulling an average of 1.35 points a game, which in a PL season is about 52 points a season....and that’s with a good chunk of their wins being against clubs significantly worse than PL standards.

 

[les Habs]

Chilwell might be the best Lefback alongside Robertson in the premier league.

Right now it's Robertson and I wouldn't say there's an "alongside". More to the point though, a few guys I'd take over Chilwell.

 

[Live in the Now]

OGS was appointed permanent manager on March 28th

Since then United have played 31 games in all comps. Their record is 11 wins, 9 draws, 11 losses. 3 of those wins were in the Europa league, 1 was against a league two side in a cup.

They’re clearly not an elite talented team, but they’re a heck of a lot better than only pulling an average of 1.35 points a game, which in a PL season is about 52 points a season....and that’s with a good chunk of their wins being against clubs significantly worse than PL standards.

Since getting the permanent job he's won 27% of their games in the league. Utterly abysmal.

 

[Havre]

So Championship teams got a lower winning % than PL teams?

Not really defending OGS. As I said when he was appointed he isn't even the best Norwegian manager out there. But I'm not sure how anyone can expect any manager to so especially well with that squad.

As for the midweek game it obviously influences things regardless of who is playing. Same thing happens over and over again even with the "b team" is out playing in the CL and EL.

 

[Jussi]

“It’s a multi-year squad evolution analysis,” Woodward said in an interview published in the latest of edition of fanzine United We Stand.

“It’s hard enough to get three players done in a transfer window.

“To get six or seven done is extremely difficult if you are getting proper talent.

“If you choose to churn every player because they are not good enough and you’re not extending contracts, you are putting yourself at risk of execution.

“Sometimes you have to take a broader view.”

...


MEN had some xG from the game. United's was 2.46, Villa's 0.6. Grealish's goal was was 0.06 meaning if the situation was replayed a 100 times, 6 times would result in a goal. Not sure if stats are available for those, especially long term, but I have this felling such goals have been scored against United by the most unlikeliest clubs/players.

 

[SSF]

xG is a borderline useless stat, G matter, not how many you EXPECT a team to score.

 

[Havre]

He is not wrong.

Utd's starting line-up with everyone fit isn't horrible. But there is very little depth and even if the starting line-up isn't horrible it isn't exactly close to e.g. Liverpool's.

That said they got a very solid core of young players. Wan-Bissaka, Shaw, James, Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Greenwood, Tuanzebe, Pereira etc. are all potentially very good players.

You got to get a bit lucky finding another Salah, De Bruyne etc. I think the foundation for the next 3-4 years is there.

 

[Blender]

Right now it's Robertson and I wouldn't say there's an "alongside". More to the point though, a few guys I'd take over Chilwell.

With the exception of Robertson of course, I wouldn't put anyone over Chilwell right now based on form. There are arguments to be made based on talent though.

 

[phisherman]

With the exception of Robertson of course, I wouldn't put anyone over Chilwell right now based on form. There are arguments to be made based on talent though.

I don't think anyone will disagree since you've now been specific that it's form and not talent.

 

[Blender]

I don't think anyone will disagree since you've now been specific that it's form and not talent.

Even on talent he's right up there, but there's a lot more subjectivity to that discussion than how someone has actually performed so far (and last year where he was also great).

Based on how underrated Leicester's defense was coming into this season, I don't think most people realized that Maguire was their 3rd best defender. He was really good of course, but Pereira and Chilwell were better.

 

[Havre]

Not sure if that is a logical way of looking at it - comparing full backs and central defenders like that.

Evans is really good. Very solid. And Soyuncu has filled the hole Maguire left excellently the times I have seen him. I'm not going to pretend that I know him that well, but he could very well be better than Maguire from the times I have seen him.

We'll see when the going gets a bit tougher for Leicester. When things are going your way then weaknesses are usually a bit camouflaged. Not suggesting they will collapse, but individual weaknesses might show a bit better then.