GWT: PL FINALE - Matchweek 38

[Johnnywhite]

And I will sacrifice my life in order to save the life of my brother. If he falls into this dimension from one of the alternative dimensions in which I really have a brother. Or I am zapped into that alternative dimension. If alternative dimensions actually exist.

Silly boy!

 

[Power Man]

What the hell....

 

[Savant]

I don't know anyone that asked for that table

 

[hatterson]

It also ignores the fact that games would play out differently if long shots were worth more. Not just in terms of shot selection, but also in terms of teams pressing for equalizers or winners when they're suddenly tied or down instead of being ahead.

 

[Power Man]

What the hell....

 

[les Habs]

Perfect reply from Bayer Leverkusen there. Who comes up with this stuff?

 

[Power Man]

Perfect reply from Bayer Leverkusen there. Who comes up with this stuff?

German club’s social media teams are awesome tbh

 

[YNWA14]

The thing is nobody asked for this and nobody cares.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Is Man City the best team of the PL era?

 

[Il Mediano]

Is Man City the best team of the PL era?

They have a legitimate claim at that title, sure. There's no way to prove it, but I don't see how anyone could completely dismiss the idea.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Is Man City the best team of the PL era?

Yes no doubt in my mind.

 

[Corto]

What the hell....

Yes, but who would've won the league if only goals that happened from either offsides not being given or soft penalties where attackers dove?

IMO, one of City or Liverpool again.

 

[Corto]

Is Man City the best team of the PL era?

You mean as in this one season or on the whole?

I'd say no to both.

Wenger's Arsenal probably peaked the highest, and Fergie's ManU was a dynasty of which City can still only dream of - including results in Europe.

 

[Evilo]

Do we pin this for the next 6 months?

 

[koyvoo]

Do we pin this for the next 6 months?

I’d like 6 years for this one. The CL semi final thread is still pinned as well, and final thread still isn’t. Lol.

 

[Evilo]

Yup, U20 WC, Women WC, CL final, EL final, all unstickied.

But PL 38th day???? Hell yeah !

 

[hatterson]

I’d like 6 years for this one. The CL semi final thread is still pinned as well, and final thread still isn’t. Lol.

Most of us who used to do the maintenance work aren’t mods any more.

 

[YNWA14]

You mean as in this one season or on the whole?

I'd say no to both.

Wenger's Arsenal probably peaked the highest, and Fergie's ManU was a dynasty of which City can still only dream of - including results in Europe.

I can't see any argument for another PL team to have peaked higher than this City.

 

[koyvoo]

Most of us who used to do the maintenance work aren’t mods any more.

It’s no big deal really. Nothing more than amusing and something to poke harmless fun at.

 

[Corto]

I can't see any argument for another PL team to have peaked higher than this City.

I dunno, Arsenal was fantastic. Did just as well in the league, never losing a game, and the competition wasn't exactly awful either - Fergie's ManU, Abramovich's Chelsea (though still early days), Liverpool (who'd go on to win the CL next season), Shearer's Newcastle...

In many ways, seeing how City and Liverpool (and even Spurs) bolted ahead of the struggling Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea, I think Arsenal had bigger competition in 03-04 when it comes to harder games (though obviously noone stayed at their heels like Liverpool and City this season).

Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Cole, Vieira, Ljundberg, Pires, Bergkamp, Henry, etc....

It was a phenomenal team. I don't know that I'd put Pep's City above Wenger's peak Arsenal.

(this is just an opinion, obviously, no real way to compare the two, but all I'm saying is that there is definitely room for debate IMO)

 

[Evilo]

Most of us who used to do the maintenance work aren’t mods any more.

I know and as Koyvoo said, it's more poking fun than anything else.
Still you can see the mods aren't rabid football fans, are they?

 

[hatterson]

I dunno, Arsenal was fantastic. Did just as well in the league, never losing a game, and the competition wasn't exactly awful either - Fergie's ManU, Abramovich's Chelsea (though still early days), Liverpool (who'd go on to win the CL next season), Shearer's Newcastle...

In many ways, seeing how City and Liverpool (and even Spurs) bolted ahead of the struggling Utd/Arsenal/Chelsea, I think Arsenal had bigger competition in 03-04 when it comes to harder games (though obviously noone stayed at their heels like Liverpool and City this season).

Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Cole, Vieira, Ljundberg, Pires, Bergkamp, Henry, etc....

It was a phenomenal team. I don't know that I'd put Pep's City above Wenger's peak Arsenal.

(this is just an opinion, obviously, no real way to compare the two, but all I'm saying is that there is definitely room for debate IMO)

I think the City of the last 2 years is a clear step ahead of any other English team in terms of domestic dominance.

198 points and 5 trophies in 2 years is absurd.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I have no problem with people saying City's run is the best PL team. I'm not sure I agree, but I understand.

I just find it really hard to compare teams from different decades.

Recently watched the United 2008 CL run. They finished 2 pts above Chelsea in the league, and beat them in the CL.

Both of those teams were insanely good.

Van der Sar, Brown/Vidic/Rio/Evra, Carrick/Scholes/Giggs, Ronaldo/Rooney/Tevez. Hargreaves and Park super subs.

Cech, Essien/Carvhalho/Terry/Cole, Lampard/Ballack/Markele, Joe Cole/Drogba/Malouda.

Arsenal was good that year. Liverpool was real good - had the Xavi/Gerrard/Mascherano MF with Torres scoring 30+.

So while the numbers City put up are insane, I still look back and don't see them as better than this. Maybe it's nostalgia.

 

[Il Mediano]

Yeah, I've said here a couple of times, but I find it very difficult to judge (or crown) this City side when the top 6 is in the state it is.

One could argue 3 of 6 should be, or are about to be, in rebuild mode. And anyone who knows me knows I love me some Spurs, but they spent 0$ in the transfer market and moved to a new stadium mid-season. That squad was spread pretty thin this season, let's be real.

You could even extend this discussion outside of England and look at Europe's traditional elite clubs. Which of them are playing at a level you'd consider exceptional, or even close to their peak? Barca fans want Valverde gone, Kovac's Bayern isn't exactly super, Madrid is a mess, Ronaldo didn't really raise Juve's level that much and Allegri's out; Inter and AC are nothing like they used to be. I mean honestly, which club? Even clubs like PSG and Atletico aren't at a level you'd consider their highest in recent memory and look to be going through a transition stage.

Basically, our only way to really judge City is Liverpool. And the Liverpool side that completely smacked City in the CL (the healthy De Bruyne, 100 point City I might add), is the exact same Liverpool Roma played.

And sure, Liverpool were really good, at times exceptional even; they clearly deserved to go through and I'd never suggest otherwise, but after we made some adjustments I thought we at least caused them a few issues. Maybe the Liverpool fans here view that tie differently, but I think I'm being pretty reasonable.

But despite them being the superior side, at no point did I feel Roma were playing some slayer of all-time greatness. I mean, if that Liverpool side Roma played was truly the team that not only beat, but smoked, the greatest team in Premier League history 5-1... then I dunno what to tell ya.

And look, I know the CL isn't always the greatest indicator of quality. Weird things can happen, and upsets exist, but I think for the most part, if you know what you're looking at it, you can generally get a good idea of how good a team is over 180 minutes despite the result. And in cases when it's two teams so familiar with each other, from the same damn league, I think it becomes a little more valid. Why did the greatest team ever from England get smoked by another team.... from England? Someone, please explain that to me. And please don't tell me that Liverpool is the 2nd greatest team ever from England, because at that point, we're handing out greatness cards like Oprah. If you want to say this season's edition has a claim, fine, I'd probably disagree, but it's more valid than 2017-18's edition.

Furthermore, I could easily make the argument our 2006-08 team was just as good, if not better than our 2017-18 side. And when we played United in the CL, they murdered us. That time, I actually came away from the tie thinking we were miles apart. There was no adjusting or clawing back, no glimmer of hope ...nothing.

And of course, I'm well aware how I view the game is just as flawed and biased as anyone else. Maybe the sample size is too small, or maybe I'm forgetting things, or maybe I'm just completely wrong - I dunno.

What I do know is, is that I'd really like to stop seeing City get knocked out of the CL by clubs from England. Not a great look for supposedly the country's greatest ever side. You should probably avoid doing that, one would think.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah, I've said here a couple of times, but I find it very difficult to judge (or crown) this City side when the top 6 is in the state it is.

One could argue 3 of 6 should be, or are about to be, in rebuild mode. And anyone who knows me knows I love me some Spurs, but they spent 0$ in the transfer market and moved to a new stadium mid-season. That squad was spread pretty thin this season, let's be real.

You could even extend this discussion outside of England and look at Europe's traditional elite clubs. Which of them are playing at a level you'd consider exceptional, or even close to their peak? Barca fans want Valverde gone, Kovac's Bayern isn't exactly super, Madrid is a mess, Ronaldo didn't really raise Juve's level that much and Allegri's out; Inter and AC are nothing like they used to be. I mean honestly, which club? Even clubs like PSG and Atletico aren't at a level you'd consider their highest in recent memory and look to be going through a transition stage.

Basically, our only way to really judge City is Liverpool. And the Liverpool side that completely smacked City in the CL (the healthy De Bruyne, 100 point City I might add), is the exact same Liverpool Roma played.

And sure, Liverpool were really good, at times exceptional even; they clearly deserved to go through and I'd never suggest otherwise, but after we made some adjustments I thought we at least caused them a few issues. Maybe the Liverpool fans here view that tie differently, but I think I'm being pretty reasonable.

But despite them being the superior side, at no point did I feel Roma were playing some slayer of all-time greatness. I mean, if that Liverpool side Roma played was truly the team that not only beat, but smoked, the greatest team in Premier League history 5-1... then I dunno what to tell ya.

And look, I know the CL isn't always the greatest indicator of quality. Weird things can happen, and upsets exist, but I think for the most part, if you know what you're looking at it, you can generally get a good idea of how good a team is over 180 minutes despite the result. And in cases when it's two teams so familiar with each other, from the same damn league, I think it becomes a little more valid. Why did the greatest team ever from England get smoked by another team.... from England? Someone, please explain that to me. And please don't tell me that Liverpool is the 2nd greatest team ever from England, because at that point, we're handing out greatness cards like Oprah. If you want to say this season's edition has a claim, fine, I'd probably disagree, but it's more valid than 2017-18's edition.

Furthermore, I could easily make the argument our 2006-08 team was just as good, if not better than our 2017-18 side. And when we played United in the CL, they murdered us. That time, I actually came away from the tie thinking we were miles apart. There was no adjusting or clawing back, no glimmer of hope ...nothing.

And of course, I'm well aware how I view the game is just as flawed and biased as anyone else. Maybe the sample size is too small, or maybe I'm forgetting things, or maybe I'm just completely wrong - I dunno.

What I do know is, is that I'd really like to stop seeing City get knocked out of the CL by clubs from England. Not a great look for supposedly the country's greatest ever side. You should probably avoid doing that, one would think.

Yup. Well said. I definitely think they’re one of the best teams of all time, but they aren’t the definitive best team of all time for a lot of the reasons you mentioned above.