GWT: PL FINALE - Matchweek 38

[Live in the Now]

I'm not sure what you mean by "cycle once", but yeah, the way I see it, losing Pogba isn't a massive loss because this team is probably 3-4 years away from contending (if everything goes right) consistently.

I don't see the parallel of selling a Coutinho and reinvesting it like Liverpool did because I don't think United's near that stage in their development.

I also don't think Pogba's a particularly good fit at United, nor do I think he's the guy I would choose to build around and have as my best player. I just don't think he's that guy, and I'm not going to be shamed into thinking otherwise by certain posters here. I've watched almost all his games in Italy and England, and the exact same issues I had with him at Juventus still exist at United.

As for the DoF, that's another matter, and not one I'm that optimistic about, but we'll see how it goes.

Fans have a tendency to look at things for the immediate, or for next season, but I think United has to be making moves for 3-4 years down the road. The entire foundation needs to be rebuilt.

I think he's a great player, but a team also needs way more than Pogba. The team would have to sell Pogba in order to afford "way more than Pogba." It's a pretty clear decision to me.

I think Ole is just gonna bomb out of the job after a season. I don't know what that will mean or what that will do to a rebuilding project.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Is Man City the best ever? One loss Liverpool is great. There's a 25 point difference between second and third place. If Arsenal beat Chelsea, they've had a great season. I thought Man Utd would beat relegated Cardiff.

 

[Machinehead]

Nope. Would mean that Tuesday meant nothing. Can't have that.

Yes, you're right about that, but before Tuesday I probably would have said I prefer the PL.

It's easy to prefer the carrot in front of your face and the game you already won. Although the powers that be might accuse me of glory hunting.

Ultimately, I always said I'd be ecstatic with either and that still holds true.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I just don't post here that often because of people like you.

I'm quite active on the Rangers soccer thread.

Ceremony is the best it’s why I post here

 

[Live in the Now]

Is Man City the best ever?

It's really hard to say because people weren't watching their games. That's not me being critical of City, but I'm stating a fact. People weren't watching them. I did watch them a lot as the season was coming to a close and thought their success was more down to absolute individual brilliance. Bernardo Silva was their main protagonist of course, but Aguero and Sane (when he played) were both amazing. Sterling was quite clinical as well. They had a more narrowed group of players who could win games for them, but those players were f***ing brilliant. And John Stones made the clearance that won them the title. Simple as.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah United will be in much better shape when they send Pogba to Real and get Bale and 30M back.

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah United will be in much better shape when they send Pogba to Real and get Bale and 30M back.

That would be peak stupid, the dumbest transfer I could ever imagine. But if they have a 100m transfer budget with what they need, they could use 150m more. Arguably need that much more.

 

[Evilo]

I'd bet money on it.

 

[Live in the Now]

I'd bet money on it.

Yeah if they do that they'll be rebuilding for five years. It would probably take two years to sack everyone who did that and the other three to rebuild.

 

[YEM]

The opportunity to do that without an owner injecting hundreds of millions into the team, that's pretty hard to do.

considering this statement isn't accurate, yes it is

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It's really hard to say because people weren't watching their games. That's not me being critical of City, but I'm stating a fact. People weren't watching them. I did watch them a lot as the season was coming to a close and thought their success was more down to absolute individual brilliance. Bernardo Silva was their main protagonist of course, but Aguero and Sane (when he played) were both amazing. Sterling was quite clinical as well. They had a more narrowed group of players who could win games for them, but those players were ****ing brilliant. And John Stones made the clearance that won them the title. Simple as.

I was ... Anyway Best epl team ever? Maybe

 

[Live in the Now]

I was ... Anyway Best epl team ever? Maybe

These are two of the best teams I've seen since starting to watch football. Pep's Barcelona and Milan back when they had all those legends were better. That's basically it, these ones are equal to the rest or better. Both teams just ruthlessly demolished almost everyone in their path. Failing that they would score in the last minutes.

 

[Venkman]

Well this is the type of game he's expected to shine offensively and he's being outshone by Mason Greenwood. By the way Greenwood seems disappointingly one footed, had a chance to shoot with his right foot earlier, instead went for a toepoke with the left...

He's two-footed, probably just getting use to thinking quicker.

 

[Machinehead]

Ceremony is the best it’s why I post here

I met a Liverpool fan here in New York the other day who is originally from Ghana, although I'm sure @Evilo will tell you he was somehow French.

Not to brag at all, but he marveled at my thirst for the game. He told me that he's been here for a few years and I'm the first American who "gets it." Again, not my words.

Regardless, there's a reason for that. For most Americans there's an inherent quality of being new to this sport. And I'm not positing a nationality issue here. I'm talking about picking up this sport versus being born with this sport. Being new to this sport feels like trying to get into Harvard.

I've dedicated myself the last six years to learning everything about the history of the game and my preferred clubs. Still, if you hold or don't hold certain beliefs, you're a bad fan.

Those who are born into this sport are the opposite of welcoming to new fans and yet those same people will ask me why the sport doesn't grow among certain populations.

Which is why, again, you're more likely to find me staying where I'm at talking football with the other hockey fans.

 

[Il Mediano]

I think he's a great player, but a team also needs way more than Pogba. The team would have to sell Pogba in order to afford "way more than Pogba." It's a pretty clear decision to me.

I don't think he's great, but maybe I have a more strict definition. To me, great is a Gerrard. He's a great talent, for sure. All the individual talent and physical abilities you could ever dream of. But player? Not for me.

But yeah, without a doubt they've done a poor job surrounding him with talent. I'd never dispute that. I'm sure if he goes to Madrid, he'll light it up once he's surrounded with players that make the game easier for him and hide his deficiencies better, similar to his time in Juventus.

He's on an island now and totally exposed - which isn't completely fair to him, but it's the way it is. He's trending towards Ozil territory at United, where he gets the blame for everything. Which is really the crux of the matter. His prime is now and doesn't align with United's development at all. United will never be able to surround him with players on his level and he doesn't elevate others to the degree they need him to.

I think Ole is just gonna bomb out of the job after a season. I don't know what that will mean or what that will do to a rebuilding project.

Yeah, that could happen. I don't feel strongly about him one way or the other.

I don't think it'd set them back too drastically, though. He's targeting younger players that fit the United profile of old. As long as the next guy isn't someone who's the complete antithesis of United like a Mourinho (who wants a completely different type of player) they should be fine. He doesn't make that much cash either, so the buy-out won't be nearly as egregious.

They're an EL level club until further notice, anyway. Don't think Ole would ever take them too far away from that level in a single season.

 

[Moncherry]

I met a Liverpool fan here in New York the other day who is originally from Ghana, although I'm sure @Evilo will tell you he was somehow French.

Not to brag at all, but he marveled at my thirst for the game. He told me that he's been here for a few years and I'm the first American who "gets it." Again, not my words.

Regardless, there's a reason for that. For most Americans there's an inherent quality of being new to this sport. And I'm not positioning a nationality issue here. I'm talking about picking up this sport versus being born with this sport. Being new to this sport feels like trying to get into Harvard.

I've dedicated myself the last six years to learning everything about the history of the game and my preferred clubs. Still, if you hold or don't hold certain beliefs, you're a bad fan.

Those who are born into this sport are the opposite of welcoming to new fans and yet those same people will ask me why the sport doesn't grow among certain populations.

Which is why, again, you're more likely to find me staying where I'm at talking football with the other hockey fans.

It's amusing how you've managed to twist the narrative into 'mean Euro snobs don't want Americans to like this sport'

 

[Machinehead]

It's amusing how you've managed to twist the narrative into 'mean Euro snobs don't want Americans to like this sport'

They don't.

 

[Live in the Now]

I really liked what Klopp and Robertson said after the match today. Nice to know these boys are staying together for the long term. It's sickening after a while to become attached to a player and for them to leave, and for it to happen over and over.

I don't think he's great, but maybe I have a more strict definition. To me, great is a Gerrard. He's a great talent, for sure. All the individual talent and physical abilities you could ever dream of. But player? Not for me.

Yeah see, that's the thing, I think he's a great player but even great players need more talent around them than that. Gerrard tried to carry Liverpool as far as he could, but the side wasn't particularly strong when they won what they did win. The CL trophy was one thing, but the team as a whole was lacking players that could win matches. He's comparable to Gerrard in that same light, Man United lack players that could win matches and therefore watching him play is proving very difficult.

I will say though that Pogba has been very weak in the last few matches. I think part of that is because he knows the supporters aren't behind him, he'd be an idiot not to know that. When a team has a player like that, a manager has to be able to unlock him.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Those who are born into this sport are the opposite of welcoming to new fans and yet those same people will ask me why the sport doesn't grow among certain populations.

Nobody is born into the sport. My experience is that some people with football-mad parents disappoint those parents by not being interested in the sport. Some people born into families where there is no historic interest in football become besotted with the game.

Europe has quite a large population. How many of them have been that hostile to your liking of football so as to give you cause to make such a sweeping statement with such certainty?

 

[Live in the Now]

Yeah I've never felt anything other than welcomed here.

 

[Moncherry]

They don't.

Poor you.

But that's not what was being argued, you aren't being told to not follow the sport.

 

[Machinehead]

Nobody is born into the sport. My experience is that some people with football-mad parents disappoint those parents by not being interested in the sport. Some people born into families where there is no historic interest in football become besotted with the game.

Europe has quite a large population. How many of them have been that hostile to your liking of football so as to give you cause to make such a sweeping statement with such certainty?

Well like I said, it's not an issue of nationality.

I'm using American fans as an example because nearly all of us adopted the sport later in life, which is simply a generational phenomenon.

I'm speaking to a generational gap. A lot of the population on this forum is made up of older fans who primarily watch football. And frankly, the snobbery on this forum could power a small stadium.

 

[Chimaera]

I'm not sure what you mean by "cycle once", but yeah, the way I see it, losing Pogba isn't a massive loss because this team is probably 3-4 years away from contending (if everything goes right) consistently.

I don't see the parallel of selling a Coutinho and reinvesting it like Liverpool did because I don't think United's near that stage in their development.

I also don't think Pogba's a particularly good fit at United, nor do I think he's the guy I would choose to build around and have as my best player. I just don't think he's that guy, and I'm not going to be shamed into thinking otherwise by certain posters here. I've watched almost all his games in Italy and England, and the exact same issues I had with him at Juventus still exist at United.

As for the DoF, that's another matter, and not one I'm that optimistic about, but we'll see how it goes.

Fans have a tendency to look at things for the immediate, or for next season, but I think United has to be making moves for 3-4 years down the road. The entire foundation needs to be rebuilt.

I mean it as they’re going to get 100 million to spend all at once, and the expectation to buy three or four players.

They were going to spend, but his going is a one time injection into the books some cash to do it.

It is different than Coutinho as you say, because Liverpool weren’t rebuilding then. It’s more like the Sterling or Suarez moves, or Bale for Spurs. A big chunk to revitalize the roster.

 

[Moncherry]

Well like I said, it's not an issue of nationality.

I'm using American fans as an example because nearly all of us adopted the sport later in life, which is simply a generational phenomenon.

I'm speaking to a generational gap. A lot of the population on this forum is made up of older fans who primarily watch football. And frankly, the snobbery on this forum could power a small stadium.

I haven't read anything in this thread that is as snobbish as this:

I like big clubs. People should support big clubs. Big clubs make the game interesting.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

...A lot of the population on this forum is made up of older fans who primarily watch football. ...

Idk HFBoards is a pretty young site. I'd guess most of the soccer fans who post in this forum are under 40.