PK Subban - what went wrong and can he recover?

[johan f]

He was challenged fram beginning with an uneconomic skating style. He is among the worst skaters ever. Barry Long-level. Then his hockey IQ is low. Then he set him self before team. What made him good some years was his esteem/confidence.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

PK, you had an instructional guide by the great Jay Z. You had 99 problems and then you decided to make it 100 by doing what he said not to do.

WTF bro.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Some players age like fine wine (Joe Sakic, Ron Francis, etc.) while most others turn to vinegar (Trevor Linden). Add in major back problems which impairs his skating (previous strength of the game) and magnifies a previous weakness (positional play) and that contract is looking terrible.

I like PK, so I'm hoping he can recover, but for the most part history isn't kind to hockey players with back issues.

 

[FMichael]

PK ought to watch VHS tapes of Larry Murphy while he was a Red Wing.

Granted he played alongside Lidstrom, but Murphs lack of foot speed made him more aware of his positioning, and kept his head up for a quick outlet pass. Had a solid finish to his lengthy career.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

As others mentioned, two thing seem to be missing at this point.

1. Speed. Could be due to the back problems, could be due to him being overweight or both.

2. Dedication. He doesn’t seem to be as motivated by hockey anymore. It looks like he is more preoccupied by his off ice activities at this point. That’s OK, the Devils just have a bad contract on their hands in the meantime.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Interesting. I'd like to read some posts of yours just after the Weber-Subban trade.

This is what I posted the day after the trade. And I stand by my initial assessment:

Several years ago I opined that I believed that Subban's skating ability had regressed, that he was no longer an effective puck transporter, that he was easily fore checked and that he had limited recovery ability. I suggested that these limitations in his overall mobility was the reason he was not used in Socchi nor selected for Team Canada for the upcoming World Cup. These comments were met with a degree of derision. I stand by those observations and can state with some conviction that the degradation in Subban's skating will prevent him from ever again contending for the Norris Trophy. That being said, Subban's remains a strong (and expensive) player who is now in his prime. All trades must be judged not only by what you received, but what you could have received in return. To this observer, I think any independent observer would agree that a player of Subban's pedigree and talent should have garnered a return that exceeded receiving a player who is older and slower than the player being given up. With the overpayment for Shaw and the undervaluation of Subban's market value, Bergevin has confirmed that he lacks the intellectual depth and acuity to manage a major sports franchise.
​

It takes insight and sound judgement to maintain and pursue a policy of good asset management. Bergevin's undervaluing of Subban, who was then at the height of his marketability (regardless of what I thought of him), was a critical lost opportunity to secure assets that would have altered the fortunes of the team for the past 5 years. There is little difference between the errors of either overestimating or underestimating the value your assets. Both adversely affect, and perhaps even disastrously, the foundation of your business. If I'm the owner of the team and my general manager approaches me with the then proposed Subban for Weber transaction, I would immediately come to the conclusion that my general manager is not fit for the job.

 

[TonySoprano]

I wanna see what he looks like with a real NHL coaching staff before I label him dead first.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

He looked hella chunky in that bikini pic. Also he wears bikinis.

I think we found what went wrong

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I only skimmed through this. Did anyone mention the fact that he used to get away with murder early in his career? I've never seen a defenseman get away what he used to. Tackling guys to the ice in the corner, his famous "punch check", for a couple of examples. For whatever reason, they finally started calling him on this which almost certainly would have affected his defensive effectiveness.

 

[HabstuckinTO]

Thinks he is a rockstar. Hooked up with a hot blonde and his head is everywhere else but on the ice. The league is too good and there are too many players who bring it every game for anyone to be anything but their best. He has the athletic ability and skill to be a dominant player in the league but he looks like he's more interested in off ice curricular activities at this point in his life. At his age he's running out of time. If he doesn't refocus on the game this year he'll be out of the league soon. I wonder if he even cares though, seems he's more interested hanging out with celebrities.

At the time of the trade from Mtl the Habs got lambasted. When Weber started playing in Mtl I could only give him the biggest compliment I would give any player - "He's a HOCKEY player".

PK is a likable guy but focuses on a lot of things other than hockey. Best wishes to him and I think he is a good person but I'll reserve that compliment for Weber and others.

 

[serp]

Age , injuries and he was on a team that made him look even worse and probably i think not neccessarily the right attitude to fix it.

With age and injuries there comes a time when a player has to adjust his game to stay on top of it or when you're less talented to stay in the league in general.

If you no longer can skate circles around your opponents you need to have the best positioning possible and anticipate the play long before they happen so you're still able to be first on a puck even if you're not a fast skater anymore. Not everyone can do this so not every player has a super long career even if they're not injured to hell.

I think Subban could still be a very effective player with some changes. Not sure about $9M effective but still pretty good. Will he ? We'll see.

 

[KingJoffrey]

Age , injuries and he was on a team that made him look even worse and probably i think not neccessarily the right attitude to fix it.

With age and injuries there comes a time when a player has to adjust his game to stay on top of it or when you're less talented to stay in the league in general.

If you no longer can skate circles around your opponents you need to have the best positioning possible and anticipate the play long before they happen so you're still able to be first on a puck even if you're not a fast skater anymore. Not everyone can do this so not every player has a super long career even if they're not injured to hell.

I think Subban could still be a very effective player with some changes. Not sure about $9M effective but still pretty good. Will he ? We'll see.

Being clearly overweight is his own fault. Bare minium for pro players should be to be in shape, but Subban looks like collega brat who just finished 3 year booze and fast food binge.

 

[serp]

Being clearly overweight is his own fault. Bare minium for pro players should be to be in shape, but Subban looks like collega brat who just finished 3 year booze and fast food binge.

He doesn't look more overweight than some of the guys who played on the two cup finalists this year. There's plenty of locker room reaction pictures and videos from that. Not everyone is an adonis when in shape .

Hell to name someone else. Phil Kessel never looked like his body was in great shape even in his best seasons.

 

[Soundgarden]

I wanna see what he looks like with a real NHL coaching staff before I label him dead first.

He looked pretty spent on Nashville his last year.

 

[TorontoMedia]

More like "I want to be the most popular player on the ice". Subban hasn't been slowed down by injuries or age. He's younger AND healthier than Weber.

He's been slowly declining because of a dwindling interest in playing competitive hockey and an increased interest in growing his brand outside of the game, mingling with stars and personalities, Instagraming his love life, extracurricular events, hosting standup comedy shows, fashion shows, NHL quiz, and so on.

He is transitioning from athlete to entertainer and influencer. It's his right to do so if that's what makes him happy. But as a hockey player, he brings little value outside a superstar aura (something NJ apparently valued, since his first appearance there was completely ridiculous and looked like a WWE event). His antics are almost certainly distracting some teammates wherever he goes.



Some people are just angry or confused because it doesn't fit the narrative that he is just a non-robotic player and the Habs made a mistake trading him. As if there weren't other ongoing and spontaneous players out there. Subban was an excellent player on the ice but unfortunately, his ego started growing out of proportion his last season in Montreal. Management and coaching determined that it was only going to get worse and luckily, they were right and were able to get a talented player who might be 3 years older but at least, is a consummate leader and professional. He's not "injured". You could see all this coming 5 years ago if you paid attention.

As for the answer to the question? Of course he can recover. But that would suppose he becomes a full time athlete once again. I doubt it's oing to happen and time is kinda running out for him.

This is correct. If you are devils fan you know it too. A lot of the issues I have with his play last year have more to do with puck decisions Than defensive coverage (although yeah... he was pretty awful there too)

He was legit doing spin moves at the point and turning the puck over regularly for the first 10 games of the year. Clearly overconfident and didn’t respect the NJ team or buy in. Went in with the “I’m the best player here so I’m just gonna do me” mentality.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

He's still a pretty good vet. He was never worth his contract, but he'll bounce back.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

well..... he did have the most points by a d-man in 17-18. You could still consider Josi to be the #1, that leaves you to consider Ekholm, Ellis or Subban as number 2. Subban also had most points by a dman in playoffs in 17-18, so yeah easy to argue he was the number 2 in 17-18. BTW I don't like Subban, but the point is he had 2 good years in Nashville

Subban was the best D on Nashville in his first 2 years. Not by a landslide, and the coaching staff tended to give more opportunity to the Josi-Ellis pairing. But despite all that, Subban was still the best all-round player on our blueline. Most physical, best defensively, and at least in the mix with the others offensively. But then he fell off a cliff in Year 3.

And he was never fast at any point. He was always at least "below average" in terms of speed. Good edgework, terrible speed and acceleration, even in his best year. We don't have a fast team at all, though, so maybe that didn't stand out a lot. Until Year 3, when again --- off a cliff. "below average" became "skating in cement".

Chronic back injury and/or training for bulk/strength instead of quickness and agility are basically the two problems I always come back to. It's ridiculous that he wants to play at 215+ lbs when he should probably play at more like 185. But maybe if his back is wrecked it doesn't really matter much.

 

[MMANumminen]

Perhaps the worst contract in the league?

 

[JaegerDice]

I think he and Jonathan Toews ran into the same problem.

Both of them are open and proud gym rats, but they started working out like bodybuilders and power lifters instead of hockey players. The ideal hockey player is not proportional. You should look like the Hulk from your core down and should look like a sprinter from the core up.

Lots of added upper body mass not only slowed them down, but put added stress on their cores and backs while performing the very demanding task of playing professional hockey.

Toews, after a few bad years completely overhauled his workouts to focus on losing mass and getting faster. He improved but was already on the wrong side of 30.

I think if Subban does the same, he could see some improvement.

 

[JianYang]

He looks like a guy to me who wanted to be everything. He was perhaps the best dman on his skates I have seen in a long time. Incredible lateral mobility, and edgework made him a nightmare to check. He played with a chip on his shoulder and did not get enough credit for his ability to shut down the other team's best players defensively.

However, it seems to me that Subban kind of took his skating ability for granted, and focused alot of his training towards bulking up and getting stronger.

If PK is to improve, I think he should go back to square one, and focus on his bread and butter, which is his skating. He should do whatever he has to do in order to regain some of that speed and mobility. If it means he has to drop some bulk, so be it.

Now let's say he does go back to basics. The other question is whether his body is too broken down at this point for him to improve. I do remember his final shift as a hab laying motionless on the ice, and being stretchered off. At that moment, I was also wondering if that was a career changing moment. Perhaps that didn't happen right away, but is it a coincidence that he dropped off only 2-3 years after? I'm not a doctor looking at his reports so I can't answer that, but it is something I wonder about.

At any rate, I will stand pat on the idea that if PK has any chance on becoming at least a fraction of what he used to be, he needs to focus way more on his skating, and not worry so much about the bulk. Otherwise, he is what he is.

 

[robertocarlos]

He was never very good.

 

[General Fanager]

IMO he needs to focus his game and not "his brand"

 

[Jozay]

I remember listening to a podcast, I want to say 31 thoughts, like a year or two ago and they pretty much said his back was f***ed and how he wasnt changing the way he trained.

Maybe if his back is OK, he can bounce back.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

IMO he needs to focus his game and not "his brand"

His brand will most certainly outlast his game

 

[JianYang]

He was never very good.

I suppose I can understand this post if someone started following the league in 2018.