Proposal: PK Subban to Toronto

Rpenny

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Feb 23, 2019
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How can the leafs afford him? Leafs are going to be in cap trouble as they have mitch to sign. And it sounds like leafs fans do not like the Nylander idea
 

Magic Man

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Mar 30, 2012
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Your Worst Nightmare
I like Subban and would seriously consider it depending on what happens this summer, but due to the difference in age and upside of Nylander I'd likely have to decline.
 

FF de Mars

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Mar 2, 2002
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Subban isn't someone Babcock appreciates, he just doesn't like his rushing style similar to poorman Subban Petry, he even picked Weber over him for team Canada.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
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i think i'm reading cap friendly wrong, something doesn't make sense. How are they fine?

Horton LTIR isnt taken into account.

Still not enough.

Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

We have 19 players under contract. From the link, you'll see we have $3.7 m of cap space, but cap will go up $3.5 m next year. So, we have $7.2 of cap space plus the LTIR Horton of $5.3 m to give us a total of $12.5 m to play with.

But, the RFAs and UFAs are unsigned, hence not included in the team cap total.

UFAs - Gardiner & Hainsey are the significant UFAs. I'm assuming that Marincin, Hutchinson & Ennis will be let go.
RFAs - Marner, Johnsson, Ozhiganov, Kapanen

If we sign Marner at let's say $10 m, that gives us $2.5 m to sign a defender. Could be Hainsey if he's willing to take a $500k pay cut, or another UFA defender at $2.5 m/year.

In this example, all of the rest (players identified in blue font) would have to exit, and we would play with a 21 man roster versus the more customary 23 players.

So, we are going to be cutting players for sure.
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
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Subban isn't someone Babcock appreciates, he just doesn't like his rushing style similar to poorman Subban Petry, he even picked Weber over him for team Canada.
Subban hardly ever rushes the puck now. At least not past center ice. But Babcock still won't like him because he still does have a penchant for bad decisions - and for whatever reason when he makes one, the conversion rate against us seems higher when he does it than when anybody else does. Like his pinch last night that cost the first goal against. The team gameplan was to activate D and pinch as much as possible, and numerous times D were caught low or didn't hold the line. But when Subban does it, it's in the net the other way.

But yeah, the old school NHL coaches aren't going to be a good fit for Subban. He's had it pretty good I think with Laviolette, although despite that he seems to have become a more conservative player overall. I think he needs a younger and more liberal/progressive type of coach to really get the best out of him.
 
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jfhabs

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May 21, 2015
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Subban hardly ever rushes the puck now. At least not past center ice. But Babcock still won't like him because he still does have a penchant for bad decisions - and for whatever reason when he makes one, the conversion rate against us seems higher when he does it than when anybody else does. Like his pinch last night that cost the first goal against. The team gameplan was to activate D and pinch as much as possible, and numerous times D were caught low or didn't hold the line. But when Subban does it, it's in the net the other way.

But yeah, the old school NHL coaches aren't going to be a good fit for Subban. He's had it pretty good I think with Laviolette, although despite that he seems to have become a more conservative player overall. I think he needs a younger and more liberal/progressive type of coach to really get the best out of him.
It was the same when he was in Montreal and would be the same if not worst in Toronto. He's just a polarizing player, you'll either love him or find reasonings to hate him and focus on all the wrongs he does.
 
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axlrose87

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Jul 13, 2018
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how and why would he take 10M when Matthews took 11.5M

C'mon, you did the same thing with Nylander, MAtthews and now Marner.
Marner is worth more than Matthews BTW
Marner is a great player but he is not worth anywhere near Matthews.
Matthews is the much better goal scorer.
Plays the more important position.
And is simply better with a better all around game.
This series has put it all on display.
While marners line has gotten more attention (Bergeron), Marner has completely disappeared. Matthews has exploded.
Matthews has always been the one facing the tougher matchups and no one says boo and he still kept up statistically. Now, the tables turn and Marner is essentially a non factor.
If Marner waits out for Matthews money, we will have another Nylander situation on our hands.
Matthews is worth more.
 

HockeyDBspecialist

Habs 2019 cup champ
Jan 30, 2018
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Marner is a great player but he is not worth anywhere near Matthews.
Matthews is the much better goal scorer.
Plays the more important position.
And is simply better with a better all around game.
This series has put it all on display.
While marners line has gotten more attention (Bergeron), Marner has completely disappeared. Matthews has exploded.
Matthews has always been the one facing the tougher matchups and no one says boo and he still kept up statistically. Now, the tables turn and Marner is essentially a non factor.
If Marner waits out for Matthews money, we will have another Nylander situation on our hands.
Matthews is worth more.

I'm sorry bud, but if there's one thing this serie showed us is how great Marner is on 200 feet.... not Matthews.

Matthews is worth the same or less, but not more than Marner
 
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axlrose87

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Jul 13, 2018
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I'm sorry bud, but if there's one thing this serie showed us is how great Marner is on 200 feet.... not Matthews.

Matthews is worth the same or less, but not more than Marner
It’s funny that only non leaf fans say this.
Ask leaf fans and it’s plain to see that Matthews is the leafs best player.
Ask someone else and they just want to tell you how the guy with a career high 24 goals will be the highest paid player in the league.
I think it’s all hate driven. Nothing to do with anything else.
 

firstemperor

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May 25, 2011
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Subban hardly ever rushes the puck now. At least not past center ice. But Babcock still won't like him because he still does have a penchant for bad decisions - and for whatever reason when he makes one, the conversion rate against us seems higher when he does it than when anybody else does. Like his pinch last night that cost the first goal against. The team gameplan was to activate D and pinch as much as possible, and numerous times D were caught low or didn't hold the line. But when Subban does it, it's in the net the other way.

But yeah, the old school NHL coaches aren't going to be a good fit for Subban. He's had it pretty good I think with Laviolette, although despite that he seems to have become a more conservative player overall. I think he needs a younger and more liberal/progressive type of coach to really get the best out of him.

Because of his cap hit and what we'd have to give up, I doubt Dubas would trade for him. I wouldn't say he couldn't survive in a market, but the fans and moreover, the media would turn on him quickly because of the player he is.

We already had it with Phaneuf, then Gardiner, and it will be worst with Subban.

I'm sorry bud, but if there's one thing this serie showed us is how great Marner is on 200 feet.... not Matthews.

Matthews is worth the same or less, but not more than Marner

Then you haven't watched the entire series
 

HoweHullOrr

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Oct 3, 2013
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how and why would he take 10M when Matthews took 11.5M

C'mon, you did the same thing with Nylander, MAtthews and now Marner.
Marner is worth more than Matthews BTW

Forest versus trees. Not saying he's going to get anything. I was providing an example to demonstrate how tight our cap situation is and that subtraction of current roster players will be the inevitable result.
 

JetsHomer

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
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Sorry.
Let me be more precise with the stats.
Pk Subban has 130 points over his last 211 games over the past 3 seasons.
These are not good statistics for an offensive defenceman making $9 million.
Averaging 50 points over 82 games is not 'good offensive statistics'??
 

Gh24

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Feb 12, 2014
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Fabbro looks like he could step into a top4 role next season, so possibly paying a 3rd pair dman 4.5M a year for the next five years doesn't sound too attractive. I'd be alright Marleau since he's only got one year left in his contract, thought.

How do you guys feel about retaining on Zaitsev? I know that doesn't sound too attractive either, but perhaps something around retained Zaitsev and Marleau could be worked out? While we're high on Fabbro, he's not a lock for top4 position and Josi has a record for making 3rd liners look like top4 dmen, so we could start Zaitsev on 1st pair and eventually move him to 3rd pair if he didn't cost us 4.5m/yr

Subban (9m)

for

Marleau (6.25m)
Zaitsev (3m)

Does this make sense to Toronto fans as a base for the deal?

And to whoever said we are not interested in picks and prospects, I tend to disagree a little. A lot depends on free agency and if Duchene is still interested in playing for us, but if we after all manage to sign him (or another top6 forward), we should definitely look for futures in a possible Subban trade to replenish our weak prospect pool.
 

GeauxPreds1

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Jul 5, 2017
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Fabbro looks like he could step into a top4 role next season, so possibly paying a 3rd pair dman 4.5M a year for the next five years doesn't sound too attractive. I'd be alright Marleau since he's only got one year left in his contract, thought.

How do you guys feel about retaining on Zaitsev? I know that doesn't sound too attractive either, but perhaps something around retained Zaitsev and Marleau could be worked out? While we're high on Fabbro, he's not a lock for top4 position and Josi has a record for making 3rd liners look like top4 dmen, so we could start Zaitsev on 1st pair and eventually move him to 3rd pair if he didn't cost us 4.5m/yr

Subban (9m)

for

Marleau (6.25m)
Zaitsev (3m)

Does this make sense to Toronto fans as a base for the deal?

And to whoever said we are not interested in picks and prospects, I tend to disagree a little. A lot depends on free agency and if Duchene is still interested in playing for us, but if we after all manage to sign him (or another top6 forward), we should definitely look for futures in a possible Subban trade to replenish our weak prospect pool.
That's horrible value for Subban. Pretty much 2 cap dumps for them
 

Porter Stoutheart

We Got Wood
Jun 14, 2017
14,876
11,256
Yes, without the adds it is, I know. That's not what I'm asking.
Yeah, but you can't take two cap dumps. It loses us any advantage in moving Subban if we just backfill his inflated contract with even worse ones. We might just as well keep playing Subban rather than take back lesser players we have to pay just as much.

I don't think Toronto is a good fit in this scenario. The players they want to move just aren't good enough. Nylander comes closest and would have to be part of it (him or Kapanen++ anyway), but smaller/softer forwards like that are not a good fit for us... we already have that. We don't need prospects or their late picks, so there's only so much of that stuff you can sprinkle in at depreciated value before it gets them mad. We definitely don't need any cap dumps like Marleau or Zaitsev.

Bottom line, there are going to be better deals out there if we want to move Subban. Toronto is a cute idea because of the hometown angle, but with the salary implications and their coach and everything it is probably one of the worst fits imaginable.
 
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GeauxPreds1

Registered User
Jul 5, 2017
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Murfreesboro
Yes, without the adds it is, I know. That's not what I'm asking.
I'd rather give subban more value by retaining on him. Maybe like Subban(retain 1.5 million) then his value goes way up. Subban for 7.5 cap hit is a good pick up. So maybe Subban(retain 1.5 million) for nylander Liljegren and a pick or maybe subban to flordia or Vegas. Subban with 7.5 cap hit would make him way more desirable and get a way better piece
 
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