Tysonson3
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2017
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- 510
Proposal: PK Subban to Toronto
- Thread starter shortfuze
- Start date
The Moose is Loose
Registered User
What an embarrassing offer.
Plenty of teams deal #1 dmen for actual garbage. Seriously, you’re even taking non blue chip prospects off the table.
If I had to guess, you think every other team is here to get swindled by the leafs, and donate their star players.
yababy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2015
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Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
- Jun 14, 2017
- 14,900
- 11,280
Yeah, the idea that Subban is an "offensive dman" is kind of an outdated myth. He occasionally makes flashy offensive plays maybe, but in 3 years in Nashville his forte has more been his play in his own zone. He chips in on offense, and has a good shot so should be used on the PP, but he's not a true offensive style of defenseman like some of the guys who put up the most points in the league. Despite any lingering media misinformation to the contrary. He could probably put up a few more points if he and Ellis didn't have to share duties, but he still doesn't really drive offense. Maybe he used to with the Habs, but it hasn't really been his game in Nashville. Josi is more like that for us in terms of driving the offense. Whereas Subban is more of an abrasive 2-way defender for us in general --- the occasional supernova flashes of brilliance or stupidity that seem to create his reputation in the public eye aren't really very representative of his overall contribution.
This pk subban situation is starting to feel like the dion phaneuf situation from a few years ago.
A guy who used to be good with a really weird personality. His teams fan base telling everyone he has lots of value and ignoring the regression.
In the end he gets traded for a few cap dumps and some mediocre prospects.
A guy who used to be good with a really weird personality. His teams fan base telling everyone he has lots of value and ignoring the regression.
In the end he gets traded for a few cap dumps and some mediocre prospects.
The only people doing that are naive Montreal fans who haven't watched him play consistently in the last three years. If we can get a 1st, decent prospect and a teams biggest cap dump then it's fair value.
Maple Leaf
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DramaticGloveSave
Voice of Reason
- Apr 17, 2017
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Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
- Jun 14, 2017
- 14,900
- 11,280
It could be like that. The thing I think we just don't know is the injury situation. We don't know what, if anything, was plaguing him this year. We don't know if it's something chronic or if it's something he might be expected to recover 100% from. We just don't have the info yet. Maybe once the Preds get put out of their misery in the playoffs some of that will come to light.
Until then, all we have is a bizarre drop from Norris finalist and playoff ace one season to shadow of that the next season. It's not something you can draw a trend line on yet. If he's permanently damaged and/or declining, that's one thing. If there's reason to think he'll bounce back healthy next season, that's another.
As usual with Subban, nothing's easy to figure out. But it doesn't stop people from trying to peg a value on him or jump to conclusions, despite not knowing what you'd need to know first in order to set his value.
Ya, fair point... but the same can be said about any player in a down year.
If the predators really are trying to trade him now as has been suggested, the return will look like the phaneuf deal. Maybe wait until the expansion draft next year. See if he can bounce back.
Injuries have been getting him a lot the last few years. I don't think that gets better in your 30's though.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
It is a shocking testament to just how much Ellis has disappointed and frustrated me this past year that I actually found myself considering it rather than rejecting it outright and posting a nasty message about trying to dump Zaitsev on the Preds.
(Well, okay, seeing Zaitsev rebound a tad with Muzzin also helps a little. But still. Ellis has long been my favorite Pred.
)* * *
Not seeing the value to the Preds there.
Merci Saku
Registered User
An up demand down year is regression? Try watching the games for a change
He’s still a top defenseman in the nhl whether you like him or not
Not a freaking chance he is.
I used to watch him quite regularly when he was with the Canadiens. I thought he was the most overhyped and overrated dman in the league (much like dion).
It was all because of his bombastic personality and his ability to provide offence. Never that good defensively.... probably why he watched from the press box as guys like vlassic and muzzin played ahead of him for team Canada.
Now, he doesn't bring the offence at the same level and he has missed significant time in 3 of the last 4 years..... but he's dating Lyndsey Vonn so he still finds his way into the entertainment world.
At $9 million he is becoming a liability. Not an asset.
Merci Saku
Registered User
Subban is 30 years old next season with a 9 mill cap hit after an injury plagued season. He could come out next season and post career numbers or he could post the same or worse numbers as this season. There's risk involved for any trade that's why the poster you quoted offered a high volume of picks and took the two young D off the table. Will that offer be beat ? Maybe but the leafs realistically shouldn't pay more then that based on the risk involved.
Rea
Guys saying they would accept a 1st and a decent prospect and a cap dump for him.... top dmen in the league command a heck of a lot more then that.
reading through this thread, it seems as though there are several preds fans who recognize a depreciating asset.
Guys saying they would accept a 1st and a decent prospect and a cap dump for him.... top dmen in the league command a heck of a lot more then that.
Canadian Canuck
Hughes4Calder
Turris has a contract that is 2 years longer so I thought that would help the preds out. Same cap itIt is a shocking testament to just how much Ellis has disappointed and frustrated me this past year that I actually found myself considering it rather than rejecting it outright and posting a nasty message about trying to dump Zaitsev on the Preds.
(Well, okay, seeing Zaitsev rebound a tad with Muzzin also helps a little. But still. Ellis has long been my favorite Pred.
* * *
Not seeing the value to the Preds there.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Yeah, but even with Turris playing poorly, I think he'll produce more with those years than Eriksson.
Canadian Canuck
Hughes4Calder
Fair enough. Just thought a change in scenery would help them out. Idk if I’d add much to Eriksson, It might be better just to wait the contracts out
Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
- Jun 14, 2017
- 14,900
- 11,280
That's still a little low at this point. Unless it's a really high pick or really good prospect. Maybe if you rewind a month there would have been more people who were getting that desperate. But the last little while he has shown signs of playing back to his usual level. In which case no way does that suffice. It still all comes down to the question of WHY he was so bad for most of the year. We don't know. He WAS a top dman in the league less than a calendar year ago.
The other complicating factor is that Ellis hasn't been any better. And there's really no upside with Ellis. At least with Subban we can dare to dream that he just had an injury holding him back and that next year he'll magically be back to his old Norris-candidate level and everything is unicorns stuffed with lollipops galloping over rainbows again. We can't have the same dreams with Ellis. If all goes well with him he's still pretty much just what he is now. But you only trade one of them. So there's competition on the trade front in our minds. At least with Subban we have a get out of jail free card in 3 more years. Maybe just 2 with expansion coming. It seems like a long time, but it's not 8 years.
Ya. Good points.
Does Nashville consider exposing Ellis and subban and simply let Seattle have one?
Mick Riddleton
“A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.”
Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
- Jun 14, 2017
- 14,900
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It's too far away to guess. Depends on how good they are then, how good the team is, how the rest of the team is shaping up, what the trade market for either looks like, etc. But for me, I would certainly be ready to expose either if they are playing like they are right now. Josi, Ekholm, and Fabbro would be my protections - assuming Fabbro develops as hoped. And if I still had Subban and Ellis on that day and couldn't find a trade that made more sense, then sure, I would cheerfully expose both of them to Seattle. Let them pick their poison. 1 year of Subban or a seeming infinity of Ellis. The way they played this season, I would have no qualms whatsoever about losing one of them in expansion if it came down to that. You have to lose somebody. They could be the easiest losses to take at that point. We might WANT Seattle to take one of them off our hands by that time.
