Confirmed with Link: PK Subban signed - 8y x 9M$ - Part II Meehan Strikes Back

[JohnLennon]

This conversation goes in circles. It's really starting to get very repetitive, and obviously no one will change their mindset. I'm sure we can all agree that the contract that Subban is currently signed for is of fair value and we are all very glad to have him for 8 more years. At this point, arguing about how we got to this point is useless.

All I want out of this deal is for Subban to prove he is the top defenseman in the league. Not too much to ask, ehhhh?

 

[Lshap]

Dude, I know you really hate Meehan for doing his job, but if PK is open to a discount then he's going to tell it to Meehan. Just like Markov did. Just like every other player that is open to a discount does.
If PK goes into this ''I'm gonna let Donny do his thing'' then that's PK's decision, not Don Meehan.

PK is the one that decides how it all goes down, not Meehan. If PK says I absolutely do not want it to go to arbitration, then it won't go to arbitration and he'll sign whatever deal is on the table prior to it.

Stop making it sound like Meehan is this puppet master and PK has no say.

No hate for Meehan, just clarifying some points.

There's this storyline that each of Subban's contracts reflects a particular mood. Bridge deal was Subban being conciliatory, the $9M deal reflects Subban taking his revenge, a hypothetical 2017 deal would reflect Subban being easygoing and giving a hometown discount.

My point is that Subban is no more a puppet of Meehan than he is a puppet of his moods. By all evidence, the negotiations and contracts have reflected Meehan doing his job, not Subban being happy/unhappy/insulted, etc. From the day Subban hired Meehan, it was destined to be hardball business between him and the Habs. That's why he hired a guy like Meehan.

By Subban's own account, he entrusted Meehan with the communication and the negotiations, not because he's a 'puppet', but because that's why you hire a top agent. Like a good lawyer, Meehan is paid great money to do the heavy lifting and get the best outcome. Subban's role is not 'puppet' -- it's 'high-paying client'. Your example of PK saying, "I'm gonna let Donny do this thing", is pretty close to what he actually said during a summer interview (I'll see if I can find the link if you're curious). Meehan did his thing this past year and it's safe to say Subban is happy -- not because he got his revenge for 2013, but because it's a perfect example of what Meehan does for his clients.

There are 160 certified NHL player agents - Subban chose Don Meehan, possibly the toughest one out there. You don't hire Meehan to negotiate hometown discounts; you hire him to be what he is -- a shark. You don't hire him to become his puppet, or because you like or dislike your GM. You hire him because it's business and this is your career.

It doesn't make Subban greedy. It doesn't make Meehan evil. It doesn't make Bergevin disrespectful. It's just hardball business with no hard feelings.

 

[Lshap]

This conversation goes in circles. It's really starting to get very repetitive, and obviously no one will change their mindset. I'm sure we can all agree that the contract that Subban is currently signed for is of fair value and we are all very glad to have him for 8 more years. At this point, arguing about how we got to this point is useless.

All I want out of this deal is for Subban to prove he is the top defenseman in the league. Not too much to ask, ehhhh?

On the other hand, it's no longer possible to beat a dead horse after the horse has decomposed.

 

[Agnostic]

This conversation goes in circles. It's really starting to get very repetitive, and obviously no one will change their mindset. I'm sure we can all agree that the contract that Subban is currently signed for is of fair value and we are all very glad to have him for 8 more years. At this point, arguing about how we got to this point is useless.

All I want out of this deal is for Subban to prove he is the top defenseman in the league. Not too much to ask, ehhhh?

I think the conversation is about one posters quest to wear everyone down. Most of us know which end is up but common sense is in no way common.

All the ideas were used up in Subban Contract thread part I . 9 parts later and the Meehan Strikes back sequel and it feels like Groundhog Day.

 

[Kriss E]

No hate for Meehan, just clarifying some points.

There's this storyline that each of Subban's contracts reflects a particular mood. Bridge deal was Subban being conciliatory, the $9M deal reflects Subban taking his revenge, a hypothetical 2017 deal would reflect Subban being easygoing and giving a hometown discount.

I wasn't talking about moods. You said no discount because Meehan was the agent. I said Markov had Meehan has an agent when he took his hometown discount. You said he fired Meehan. I said he did so 6 years later.
So as much as you think Meehan is a hardball negotiator, still doesn't mean discounts are impossible.

My point is that Subban is no more a puppet of Meehan than he is a puppet of his moods. By all evidence, the negotiations and contracts have reflected Meehan doing his job, not Subban being happy/unhappy/insulted, etc. From the day Subban hired Meehan, it was destined to be hardball business between him and the Habs. That's why he hired a guy like Meehan.

It didn't have to be a hardball business between both. PK wanted 5x5M last time right? Many would have gladly taken that on. Even the posters claiming the bridge deal was great would be singing a completely different tune had he signed that deal.
The same thing again this year. They had 1 year to get this done. In Bergevin's presser in July after open market opened, he answered there was no rush to sign PK.
So ya, maybe Bergevin had his part to play in this ''tough'' business aspect considering the deals we know PK got.
It really doesn't seem like Meehan was the one making this super difficult.

By Subban's own account, he entrusted Meehan with the communication and the negotiations, not because he's a 'puppet', but because that's why you hire a top agent. Like a good lawyer, Meehan is paid great money to do the heavy lifting and get the best outcome. Subban's role is not 'puppet' -- it's 'high-paying client'. Your example of PK saying, "I'm gonna let Donny do this thing", is pretty close to what he actually said during a summer interview (I'll see if I can find the link if you're curious). Meehan did his thing this past year and it's safe to say Subban is happy -- not because he got his revenge for 2013, but because it's a perfect example of what Meehan does for his clients.

Subban also said after he signed that he was involved in this whole process. That he discussed things with Geoff Molson throughout the summer. That there was regular communication.

There are 160 certified NHL player agents - Subban chose Don Meehan, possibly the toughest one out there. You don't hire Meehan to negotiate hometown discounts; you hire him to be what he is -- a shark. You don't hire him to become his puppet, or because you like or dislike your GM. You hire him because it's business and this is your career.

It doesn't make Subban greedy. It doesn't make Meehan evil. It doesn't make Bergevin disrespectful. It's just hardball business with no hard feelings.

Meehan also operates the biggest player agent agency. Not every player he has/had went through tough negotiations nor did they all get the most money possible. Some have taken some fair deals.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Looks like this thread will inevitably get to part III. Whoever sets it up though should include a poll for the bridge. It'd be interesting to see the percentage of folks who still support it.

 

[ECWHSWI]

So I'm living in a fantasy but you're saying the important years are when we only have 5 players signed to contracts. In 4 years, we have 5 players signed. So basically our entire team can be different. Also, our freaking GM isn't even signed to that point.

And I also don't see how ''wanting to contend'' is a fantasy. You don't want to contend? You're really on a roll with the stupid statements.
Stick to not wanting to contend buddy, stay in the land of mediocrity, and keep telling yourself the important times are the ones you know nothing about how your team will look like.

learn how to read, never said that.

Yeah, whenever the man in charge says we're not going all in, I usually do believe it means we won't be going all in, Im that stupid, what can I do

and really, before calling other stupid, I suggest you take a few reading lessons.

 

[Kriss E]

learn how to read, never said that.

Yeah, whenever the man in charge says we're not going all in, I usually do believe it means we won't be going all in, Im that stupid, what can I do

and really, before calling other stupid, I suggest you take a few reading lessons.

1- I read just fine, thx.
2- Bergevin also said he didn't want to give up picks/prospects for deadline acquisitions, and we all know how that worked out.
3- I'm saying the next few years are important, you've argued against this, meaning you think other years are more important. If you can't figure out what your own positions on certain opinions entail, then you should really take a step back.
4- If you're going to tell someone how to read you should make sure you do it well yourself. I said your statements are stupid, I never called you stupid. If I had, my post would have been deleted and an infraction sent my way. So it definitely looks like you're the one that needs reading lessons.

 

[ECWHSWI]

1- I read just fine, thx.
2- Bergevin also said he didn't want to give up picks/prospects for deadline acquisitions, and we all know how that worked out.
3- I'm saying the next few years are important, you've argued against this, meaning you think other years are more important. If you can't figure out what your own positions on certain opinions entail, then you should really take a step back.
4- If you're going to tell someone how to read you should make sure you do it well yourself. I said your statements are stupid, I never called you stupid. If I had, my post would have been deleted and an infraction sent my way. So it definitely looks like you're the one that needs reading lessons.

clearly you dont.

 

[Kriss E]

clearly you dont.

Typical..

Here's a little refresher, you're a worse than I thought..

And yeah, it is fantazy, given what we know, it's pretty clear that at the very very very best we may contend in the last two of those three years, and that is, if everything goes right.

So your response to me saying the next years are the important ones was ''it's a fantasy'' and I'm wrong in assuming you don't believe the next years are the important ones?
As I said, you're worse than I thought.

And again:

and really, before calling other stupid, I suggest you take a few reading lessons.

This was in response to this:

You're really on a roll with the stupid statements.

Not surprisingly, you clearly ignored that part.

Thanks for the chuckles.

 

[Frozenice]

This conversation goes in circles. It's really starting to get very repetitive, and obviously no one will change their mindset. I'm sure we can all agree that the contract that Subban is currently signed for is of fair value and we are all very glad to have him for 8 more years. At this point, arguing about how we got to this point is useless.

All I want out of this deal is for Subban to prove he is the top defenseman in the league. Not too much to ask, ehhhh?

It's not fair value. If the cap keeps going up by 7% per year it will enter in fair value. Meehan and MB had agreed what was fair value and the debate was how much cap inflation needed to be added to the contract. That was what the disagreement was about.

 

[NHLFutureGuy3]

I would have signed Subban to the same contract if I had to. However, I still think we only had to because of the bridge. What if Subban doesn't live up to his contract??? I'm actually pretty nervous about that.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Typical..

Here's a little refresher, you're a worse than I thought..


So your response to me saying the next years are the important ones was ''it's a fantasy'' and I'm wrong in assuming you don't believe the next years are the important ones?
As I said, you're worse than I thought.

And again:

This was in response to this:

Not surprisingly, you clearly ignored that part.

Thanks for the chuckles.

reading is definitely not your thing, let me know when you start your lessons.

 

[Kriss E]

reading is definitely not your thing, let me know when you start your lessons.

Sure buddy, sure

 

[ECWHSWI]

So your response to me saying the next years are the important ones was ''it's a fantasy'' and I'm wrong in assuming you don't believe the next years are the important ones?
As I said, you're worse than I thought.

1- I read just fine, thx.

meaning you think other years are more important. If you can't figure out what your own positions on certain opinions entail, then you should really take a step back.

like I said, readind 101.

noe once I said the other years (4+) are MORE important. YOU came to that conclusion, to no surprise really. One extreme or the other, nothing in between, right ?

 

[macavoy]

Let's try a new discussion point.

Geoff Molson. We all pretty much agree that he helped out / intervened. Where I think he screwed up is waiting so long to intervene. He really should have did it a day or two before. Like why did he wait till after the arbitration hearing.

Did he really think PK would cave. He obviously could talk to Bergevin and Bergevin didn't feel panicked to give in before the meeting, so why didn't he?

 

[Kriss E]

like I said, readind 101.

noe once I said the other years (4+) are MORE important. YOU came to that conclusion, to no surprise really. One extreme or the other, nothing in between, right ?

Yes, I came to that conclusion because of how you express your thoughts/opinion.
You called my ''next 3 years the more important ones'' (and if you understood what I meant by ''important'' then you know I'm talking about being contenders) opinion as a fantasy and you wonder why/how I conclude that you think the years 4+ are more important??

And if my assumption was so dead off wrong, why don't you just say which years you believe are the more important? If you did and I missed that post, then my bad, but I don't recall reading it.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yes, I came to that conclusion because of how you express your thoughts/opinion.
You called my ''next 3 years the more important ones'' (and if you understood what I meant by ''important'' then you know I'm talking about being contenders) opinion as a fantasy and you wonder why/how I conclude that you think the years 4+ are more important??

And if my assumption was so dead off wrong, why don't you just say which years you believe are the more important? If you did and I missed that post, then my bad, but I don't recall reading it.

Of course, you're never in the wrong, it's always the other guy

nope, I dont wonder, it's pretty obvious actually, one extreme or the other.

that's your problem, not mine.

 

[Kriss E]

Of course, you're never in the wrong, it's always the other guy

nope, I dont wonder, it's pretty obvious actually, one extreme or the other.

that's your problem, not mine.

So still no answer?? Awesome post brah!
Why don't you just prove me wrong instead of your useless babble? So again, what years are more important?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Let's try a new discussion point.

Geoff Molson. We all pretty much agree that he helped out / intervened. Where I think he screwed up is waiting so long to intervene. He really should have did it a day or two before. Like why did he wait till after the arbitration hearing.

Did he really think PK would cave. He obviously could talk to Bergevin and Bergevin didn't feel panicked to give in before the meeting, so why didn't he?

Interesting point, kinda kills the "Todd theory" as it's pretty obvious MB didnt feel any heat by waiting till the hearing, I mean, had he known Molson would give it anyway he could have signed PK for 9M himself...

 

[ECWHSWI]

So still no answer?? Awesome post brah!
Why don't you just prove me wrong instead of your useless babble? So again, what years are more important?

done already.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Well he's paid like a top-5 D so at least one other GM also sees him the way I do. And your kidding yourself if you think other GMs wouldn't gladly take Subban at 9m. Not too mention what matters is how PK views himself because that's what determines his asking price.

All of them except Crosby you mean. If your going to capitalize the word ALL, at least get your facts straight. Not too mention I even suggested PK would get over 9m so he's basically in the same company as those players.

Subban wouldn't hit UFA status, we would get a deal done while he was still under contract and so couldn't talk to other teams. The threat of hitting the UFA is exactly the same as it was this year because during both negotiations Subban's leverage is being UFA in a year or two.

Subban just sold his prime UFA years, please explain why he would ask for something drastically more in a couple years time. There will be an increase because of the cap, but what else?

read again, I was speaking of those extended THIS season. ALL of them making more than 9M (obviously talking about elite players here, not the average 4th liner).

 

[Kriss E]

done already.

Please, show where.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Please, show where.

in this thread, dont be a lazy little fighter.

 

[JohnLennon]

On the other hand, it's no longer possible to beat a dead horse after the horse has decomposed.

I think the conversation is about one posters quest to wear everyone down. Most of us know which end is up but common sense is in no way common.

All the ideas were used up in Subban Contract thread part I . 9 parts later and the Meehan Strikes back sequel and it feels like Groundhog Day.

Agreed with both of you, 100%. I entered within the last couple of pages and I already never want to check back on this thread. It is the definition of a summer hockey thread.