"Pittsburgh Penguins" sale/arena/slots/etc. thread

[CapitalPunishment]

I'd rahter not the penguins move, but as long as they stay in the east conference and as long as the caps can still play them 4 times a year

 

[PecaFan]

Thats exactly what Karamanos said..

No kidding. I can't believe the Pollyannas in here saying "See! He plans to keep the team here!".

Every owner of every team who ever moved promised to stay.

Owners will do whatever they want to do. The leagues will let them.

If the Pens are going to stay put, it's up to the *city* and the fans to make it happen.

And yes, that generally means handing out multi-millions of dollars in handouts, free buildings etc to rich owners.

 

[Creator]

No kidding. I can't believe the Pollyannas in here saying "See! He plans to keep the team here!".

Every owner of every team who ever moved promised to stay.

Owners will do whatever they want to do. The leagues will let them.

If the Pens are going to stay put, it's up to the *city* and the fans to make it happen.

And yes, that generally means handing out multi-millions of dollars in handouts, free buildings etc to rich owners.

Correctomundo..... and I am one person that will be happy with Teams in Toronto, Buffalo and Hamilton all within driving distance and two that I can afford to go too on a regular basis.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The thing I don't understand about people saying Crosby will guantee a following where ever the team relocates to, is that it's so uncertain. Crosby could have a career ending injury, or be traded before the team relocates. He could slump (not really likely, but possible), or become a locker-room cancer. Plus, in the grand scheme of the lease where ever the Pens end up, Crosby will only be there for maybe a third of it, if you're lucky.

If you're a smart businessman, why take the gamble on relocation based on a single player or two who may only be there for a third of the time you've got to pay rent and overhead on an arena?

It'll come down to who offers the Pens the best deal, and nothing else. No phony-patriotism, no local-son-done-good stories, nothing but the best least with the lease amount of costs and the greatest revenue streams will decide where this team stays for the next 30+ years.

 

[HandshakeLine]

No kidding. I can't believe the Pollyannas in here saying "See! He plans to keep the team here!".

Every owner of every team who ever moved promised to stay.

Owners will do whatever they want to do. The leagues will let them.

If the Pens are going to stay put, it's up to the *city* and the fans to make it happen.

And yes, that generally means handing out multi-millions of dollars in handouts, free buildings etc to rich owners.

Pretty much. The silver lining to the Pens' sale, is that it forces the city to do something, and, honestly, it seems like they're more willing to come to terms than Quebec City was, for example.

I think Pittsburgh will cave, and the Pens will get a new, free arena. I also think it's a mistake to think that the Pens don't have a chance of moving or a chance of staying.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No kidding. I can't believe the Pollyannas in here saying "See! He plans to keep the team here!".

Every owner of every team who ever moved promised to stay.

Owners will do whatever they want to do. The leagues will let them.

If the Pens are going to stay put, it's up to the *city* and the fans to make it happen.

And yes, that generally means handing out multi-millions of dollars in handouts, free buildings etc to rich owners.

Different scenerio entirely. If that were indeed Bassilie's plan, he will soon find himself between a rock and a hard place that Karamanos never faced. Within 4 months, likely more like 2 months, the slots license will be awarded. If to IOC there is within the sales agreement to Bassillie a clause that forces him to sign a 30 year lease with the city. If either of the other two applicants get the license they are committed to $7 m. per year for 30 years toward an arena, the state, county, etc. a similar amount for a similar period, if the Pens pony up a mere $4 m. per year. Try getting that past the board of Governors to even approve the sale if you do not agree to a similar 30 year lease under those terms.

Long and short of it is the Bassillie bought the team to move, he will find it impossible within two months to do so whoever gets the slots license. Which leads me to believe that he bought the team to keep them here. I am assuming under the premise that owning one of the biggest name teams in hockey with Crosby (and Malkin and on and on) in Pittsburgh is better than holding out for a pipe dream in Hamilton.

Long and short of it is this is not the same scenerio that Karamanos manufactured at all. There is zero chance that Bassilli can move the team with how the fact situation is constructed.

 

[Artyukhin*]

Different scenerio entirely. If that were indeed Bassilie's plan, he will soon find himself between a rock and a hard place that Karamanos never faced. Within 4 months, likely more like 2 months, the slots license will be awarded. If to IOC there is within the sales agreement to Bassillie a clause that forces him to sign a 30 year lease with the city. If either of the other two applicants get the license they are committed to $7 m. per year for 30 years toward an arena, the state, county, etc. a similar amount for a similar period, if the Pens pony up a mere $4 m. per year. Try getting that past the board of Governors to even approve the sale if you do not agree to a similar 30 year lease under those terms.

Long and short of it is the Bassillie bought the team to move, he will find it impossible within two months to do so whoever gets the slots license. Which leads me to believe that he bought the team to keep them here. I am assuming under the premise that owning one of the biggest name teams in hockey with Crosby (and Malkin and on and on) in Pittsburgh is better than holding out for a pipe dream in Hamilton.

Long and short of it is this is not the same scenerio that Karamanos manufactured at all. There is zero chance that Bassilli can move the team with how the fact situation is constructed.

you guys still dont get it .

what's the top ticket price in pittsburgh? $95.00?

top ticket price in Toronto is $340 sold out every night try and get one .

i still say there nothing for sure in this entire deal . if there a new arena deal both side agree on , yes 100% they will stay . if no arena deal either side can agree on you can see why Basille was thinking about Waterloo area. some have said Waterloo is safe from the VETO zone of the maple leafs and sabers so you might wanna research that .

im sure over time he could get more than $95 for a top of the line ticket in Waterloo region with Crosby on his team from a bunch of old leafs fans ready to jumpship .


his foot is in the door that all he needs right now .

 

[Northern Dancer]

First of all if Pittsburgh gets a new rink they stay. If there is no rink they will move.

I doubt very much that either Hamilton or Waterloo would be the logical destinations. I am not even going to argue whether they can produce enough revenue to support a franchise.

Why would anyone pay 175 million U.S. (almost 200 million Cdn), then pay BOTH Buffalo and Toronto territorial rights. (let's be conservative and say 35 million each), then finance a new arena, 250 million, totalling 520 million !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy is rich because he is smart. He is NOT going to spend 520 million bucks to put a team in either Hamilton or Waterloo. Heck for 1.2 Billion he could probaly buy MLSE lock, stock and barrel and get the Raptors and ACC to boot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip guys !!!!!!!!!!!!! ( Besides Portland or Kansas City will probabaly PAY HIM to go there).

 

[HandshakeLine]

you guys still dont get it .

what's the top ticket price in pittsburgh? $95.00?

top ticket price in Toronto is $340 sold out every night try and get one .

i still say there nothing for sure in this entire deal . if there a new arena deal both side agree on , yes 100% they will stay . if no arena deal either side can agree on you can see why Basille was thinking about Waterloo area.

im sure over time he could get more than $95 for a top of the line ticket in Waterloo region with Crosby on his team and a buch of old leafs fans ready to jumpship


his foot is in the door that all he needs right now .

And you could probably raise the ticket prices if the Pens weren't playing in Mellon Arena but were still in Pittsburgh.

I know you fantasize about another team up there, but honestly, even with Crosby, all reports suggest a relocation would mean taking losses for a few years until a fanbase is built up. Hell, you guys didn't even outsell Moncton when the Pens played there for pre-season. What's to suggest that people will come to see the Pens? Because they're Canadian? Because die-hard Leafers will suddenly drop their loyalty to the blue and white?

Attendence and pricing aren't the issue for the Pens. The lease and arena are, and Hamilton's actually behind Pittsburgh in that regard.

 

[PecaFan]

Long and short of it is this is not the same scenerio that Karamanos manufactured at all. There is zero chance that Bassilli can move the team with how the fact situation is constructed.

I wasn't making a comparison to Karmanos situation, just to every owner who ever wanted to move. Leases get broken, out clauses get added, lawyers make sure the will of the owner gets done.

We'll see if this deal is as rock solid 100% guaranteed as you think.

Maybe he's just a straight up guy who wants to run a team in another country, far away from where he lives. Time has taught me those kinds of guys are rare.

 

[HandshakeLine]

First of all if Pittsburgh gets a new rink they stay. If there is no rink they will move.

I doubt very much that either Hamilton or Waterloo would be the logical destinations. I am not even going to argue whether they can produce enough revenue to support a franchise.

Why would anyone pay 175 million U.S. (almost 200 million Cdn), then pay BOTH Buffalo and Toronto territorial rights. (let's be conservative and say 35 million each), then finance a new arena, 250 million, totalling 520 million !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy is rich because he is smart. He is NOT going to spend 520 million bucks to put a team in either Hamilton or Waterloo. Heck for 1.2 Billion he could probaly buy MLSE lock, stock and barrel and get the Raptors and ACC to boot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip guys !!!!!!!!!!!!! ( Besides Portland or Kansas City will probabaly PAY HIM to go there).

Bingo on all accounts. Kansas City is the one that really worries me, because of the new, tennant-less arena they have.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

you guys still dont get it .

what's the top ticket price in pittsburgh? $95.00?

top ticket price in Toronto is $340 sold out every night try and get one .

i still say there nothing for sure in this entire deal . if there a new arena deal both side agree on , yes 100% they will stay . if no arena deal either side can agree on you can see why Basille was thinking about Waterloo area. some have said Waterloo is safe from the VETO zone of the maple leafs and sabers .

im sure over time he could get more than $95 for a top of the line ticket in Waterloo region with Crosby on his team and a buch of old leafs fans ready to jumpship


his foot is in the door that all he needs right now .

How do I not get it and what do hypothetical top ticket prices have to do with it at all? By December 31, 2006, before this hypothetical sale goes before the NHL for approval, either IOC has the slots license which = 30 year deal. Or one of the other two have the license which kicks in plan B. That day a lease is on Bassilli's desk committing the region and slots winner to build an arena in exchange for a mere $4 mil. a year from the Pens. The bull dozers have begun to take down the buildings on the already aquired properties and construction begins in 3 months pending the signing of the lease by Mr. Bassilli.

'Ok Mr. Bassilli, the ball is now in your court' says the NHL. Are you going to sign or not? Our approval of the sale depends on your answer.

Now tell me where I am wrong.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I wasn't making a comparison to Karmanos situation, just to every owner who ever wanted to move. Leases get broken, out clauses get added, lawyers make sure the will of the owner gets done.

We'll see if this deal is as rock solid 100% guaranteed as you think.

Maybe he's just a straight up guy who wants to run a team in another country, far away from where he lives. Time has taught me those kinds of guys are rare.

Yeah, but rarer are the guys who want to drop nearly half a billion dollars on relocating a sports team, just for the hell of it.

 

[Artyukhin*]

Hell, you guys didn't even outsell Moncton when the Pens played there for pre-season. What's to suggest that people will come to see the Pens? Because they're Canadian? Because die-hard Leafers will suddenly drop their loyalty to the blue and white?

Attendence and pricing aren't the issue for the Pens. The lease and arena are, and Hamilton's actually behind Pittsburgh in that regard.

you obviously dont know the diffrence between
Moncton NB 50,000 vs Toronto ON 4,558,800 million


anyways your rant about Moncton NB.
$85 dollars to watch a pre season game in a city of 50,000 people . wonder why it wasnt sold out? . hell imagine if every ticket in pitsburgh cost $85.00 in the pre season how full would your rink be?probally just as full as Moncton's

 

[kdb209]

Plan B does not have a deal with the Penguins-please note that the lease has not been extended in case an arena deal is decided. The Pens hold the cards in this game of poker.

Nope.

The League (by either majority or supermajority vote of owners) would have to approve the move.

Toronto would have to agree and have its territorial rights bought out.

He could try to go the Al Davis route, but we do not know all of the details of the franchise agreements and league bylaws of the NHL as compared with the NFL, and unlike the Raiders case this would likely be decided in Canadian courts. Also unlike the NFL, the NHL does have exclusive territorial rights which would have to be bought out, a seperate issue from league approval.

 

[xeric716x]

Canada will never get another team, its been proven that no matter how many of you are "die hard fans" and the classic "its our sport" BS, you cant support a team. thats why teams have left.

 

[Artyukhin*]

First of all if Pittsburgh gets a new rink they stay. If there is no rink they will move.

I doubt very much that either Hamilton or Waterloo would be the logical destinations. I am not even going to argue whether they can produce enough revenue to support a franchise.

Why would anyone pay 175 million U.S. (almost 200 million Cdn), then pay BOTH Buffalo and Toronto territorial rights. (let's be conservative and say 35 million each), then finance a new arena, 250 million, totalling 520 million !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy is rich because he is smart. He is NOT going to spend 520 million bucks to put a team in either Hamilton or Waterloo. Heck for 1.2 Billion he could probaly buy MLSE lock, stock and barrel and get the Raptors and ACC to boot !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip guys !!!!!!!!!!!!! ( Besides Portland or Kansas City will probabaly PAY HIM to go there).

there now claiming if he moves the team to waterlooo he wont have to pay territorial rights to either buff or toronto . intresting development .

 

[Artyukhin*]

Canada will never get another team, its been proven that no matter how many of you are "die hard fans" and the classic "its our sport" BS, you cant support a team. thats why teams have left.

how many canadain owners own US based teams ?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

there now claiming if he moves the team to waterlooo he wont have to pay territorial rights to either buff or toronto . intresting development .

A) You still have not answered my question.

B) You got the ticket prices wrong. Top seats in Mellon arena are $135, not $95. Our least expensive seats are $35. And the Pens lowered prices significantly in the year before the strike, as much as 65% on some seats so have gotten much higher prices in the past. There are many teams with lower ticket prices, though the Pens have been very reasonable with us.

But nice why to fudge your point to make us seem like an AHL franchise ticket cost wise.

 

[HandshakeLine]

you obviously dont know the diffrence between
Moncton NB 50,000 vs Toronto ON 4,558,800 million


anyways your rant about Moncton NB.
$85 dollars to watch a pre season game in a city of 50,000 people . wonder why it wasnt sold out? . hell imagine if every ticket in pitsburgh cost $85.00 in the pre season how full would your rink be?probally just as full as Moncton's

Odd that Moncton out-drew you, huh? You totally missed the point, the point was more people showed up in Moncton than in Hamilton.

So, say what you want about Moncton, but they at least came out to see NHL hockey. Hamilton has yet to prove they want any part of the NHL.

 

[HandshakeLine]

there now claiming if he moves the team to waterlooo he wont have to pay territorial rights to either buff or toronto . intresting development .

Who is claiming that?

I know there was rumors about him challenging the legality of that, but if there was much truth to that, do you think the BOG will allow the sale to go through? Not in your lifetime.

 

[Northern Dancer]

there now claiming if he moves the team to waterlooo he wont have to pay territorial rights to either buff or toronto . intresting development .

That may be true, however my estimate of the cost of a new arena was low. The ACC cost over 300 million 8 years ago, so let's say he could do one for 300 million, you are still at 500 million !!!
I tell ya, Melynk must be drooling, he bot the Sens and the rink for 120 million !!!!! Maybe he shud sell it to the other RIM guy and he can move the team to Kitchner!!!!

 

[Northern Dancer]

Who is claiming that?

I know there was rumors about him challenging the legality of that, but if there was much truth to that, do you think the BOG will allow the sale to go through? Not in your lifetime.

Totally agree, do people think the NHL will let a new guy in, let him move into another teams turf and no indeminfication (man, that's a big word). Great precedent for the other 29 owners !!!!!

 

[HandshakeLine]

And just in case people think I'm alone in my skepticism about Hamilton, here's what the Spectator has to say about it:

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NA...2&call_pageid=1112274690688&col=1112274690756

 

[HandshakeLine]

Totally agree, do people think the NHL will let a new guy in, let him move into another teams turf and no indeminfication (man, that's a big word). Great precedent for the other 29 owners !!!!!

Plus, that's cash out of their pockets. I wish I was rich enough that I'd be cool with not getting that $50 million.