Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about Jussi Jokinen

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CrosbyMalkin

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Aug 7, 2005
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They never should've let Archibald go to begin with.

Since 2017.

Tanev: 225(GP), 37(G), 41(A), 78(P)

Archibald: 192(GP), 33(G), 27(A), 61(P)

Obviously, Tanev is the better player. He's also signed at $3.5M over the next 4 years. Archibald is making $1.5M a season for one more season. I'm not saying that intangibles Tanev brings don't go unnoticed, I'm just saying when you're a cap strapped team, you shouldn't go out and commit that long to a bottom-six guy.

Archibald is a bottom tier 4th line player and no better than Rodriguez and to compare him in any way to Tanev is actually laughable. Archibald is not an upgrade on any of the players we have now. Trading McCann for him is terrible. If we are trading McCann it won't be for a journeyman 4th liner.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
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I had no issue with Blue being the 3C. My problem has always been not having another solid bottom 6 center. Weve needed one since the Ole Man retired. So :P
My original thoughts were that Blueger should be the 3c and Rodrigues the 4c, as having an energy type of 4C is what we could use, to just come in after the 3rd line and wear down the other team and then have L1 and L2 rotate in and do damage.

But that required support with Rodrigues. For me, Jankowski doesn't do enough of the "grinding" that you need from a 4c, he's 6'4" but he doesn't play it often enough. Lafferty has consistency issues, having a center that has consistency issues in all facets of his game as well is a bad fit.

Rodrigues, for his inconsistencies, is at least consistent in his effort and plays a solid 2-way game no matter what, he rest of his game you wish he was better offensively, but the one thing he does well is play the cycle game and a good dump/chase game. Ideally, still not what you would want and if you put McCann there, you're wasting ZAR with him without a replacement for Blue's line and Blue's line deserves more than those assignments again.
 

CrosbyMalkin

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I think you need someone better than DOC as the LW but I agree with you on McCann and ERod.

I think they need basically another Tanev clone for that line. Someone like Boone Jenner would be awesome IMO.

It's the 4th line. We don't need anything. It is okay if we add but it isn't a necessity. I am fine with any of the 6 forwards we have now outside of our top 9 filling those spots. McCann is a 3rd line forward going to play 4th line minutes so that is a great start to a 4th line. Players like Rodriguez, Sceviour, O'Connor, Lafferty, and Jankowski can fight it out for the other two spots. We are talking 6-8 minutes a game and McCann with two of them makes a decent 4th line.
 

CrosbyMalkin

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I had no issue with Blue being the 3C. My problem has always been not having another solid bottom 6 center. Weve needed one since the Ole Man retired. So :P

What we needed was someone to step up as a good 3C and we have that now. Blueger is probably the best 3C we have had since Staal. If you put McCann back at Center for that 4th line you have a 3rd line forward playing on your 4th line. I think center is very solid on this team. Having Rodriguez and Jankowski that can also play 4th line center has us fine at the position.
 
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Zirakzigil

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Jul 5, 2010
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My original thoughts were that Blueger should be the 3c and Rodrigues the 4c, as having an energy type of 4C is what we could use, to just come in after the 3rd line and wear down the other team and then have L1 and L2 rotate in and do damage.

But that required support with Rodrigues. For me, Jankowski doesn't do enough of the "grinding" that you need from a 4c, he's 6'4" but he doesn't play it often enough. Lafferty has consistency issues, having a center that has consistency issues in all facets of his game as well is a bad fit.

Rodrigues, for his inconsistencies, is at least consistent in his effort and plays a solid 2-way game no matter what, he rest of his game you wish he was better offensively, but the one thing he does well is play the cycle game and a good dump/chase game. Ideally, still not what you would want and if you put McCann there, you're wasting ZAR with him without a replacement for Blue's line and Blue's line deserves more than those assignments again.


See and thats where I stopped agreeing. I dont have an issue with Blue and Erod individually, but I do have an issue with both of them being our bottom 6 centers. Theres no real room for error. If one or both struggle, or if theres injuries, you are scrambling.

Dont get my started on Jankowski. I wasnt impressed with the signing and for the exact reasons everyone is turning on him now. Hes as soft as the Texas power system, fades away far too often in games when the intensity ramps up, doesnt bring anything offensively and is replacement level defensively.
 

Empoleon8771

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It's the 4th line. We don't need anything. It is okay if we add but it isn't a necessity. I am fine with any of the 6 forwards we have now outside of our top 9 filling those spots. McCann is a 3rd line forward going to play 4th line minutes so that is a great start to a 4th line. Players like Rodriguez, Sceviour, O'Connor, Lafferty, and Jankowski can fight it out for the other two spots. We are talking 6-8 minutes a game and McCann with two of them makes a decent 4th line.

Who is the last team that won with a 4th line that had multiple players like that? Serious question.

I really have no clue how you could have watched the shitshow that has been the Penguins 4th line this year and think "yeah they're fine as long as they have McCann on their line". Like the 4th line is getting downright slaughtered right now. That's not an exaggeration, they're getting abused.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
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Who is the last team that won with a 4th line that had multiple players like that? Serious question.

I really have no clue how you could have watched the shitshow that has been the Penguins 4th line this year and think "yeah they're fine as long as they have McCann on their line". Like the 4th line is getting downright slaughtered right now. That's not an exaggeration, they're getting abused.
Penguins literally won 2 cups with a 4th line that was thrown together, people can wax poetic now about how great it was, but at the time, there was a few of us trying to convince the masses here that Cullen was a good signing and not a bad pick-up and then we had Fehr and they brought up kids like Kuhnhackl and Wilson.

People love to forget the details in things like that, that 4th line worked because it...just worked, Cullen really carried the load there and Fehr, as much as he hated being a RW and wanted to be a C, took his role well and then the next year we had kids come up and do well in that role as well and Rust was at times, on the 4th line with Cullen while moving up and down the line-up.

Opportunity is huge and the Pens haven't been giving many opportunities to young players on that 4th line. Lafferty has gotten far too many at this point and O'Connor has done well but he's not a 4th line type of player, he's more of a top 9 player, he's like the "Rust" of that 4th line, if you will, but there's no stability like a Cullen or a solid 2-way grinder with reckless abandon for his body and blocking shots like Kuhn or being a thorn like Wilson (Lafferty sometimes does it but not even half as well as the very inconsistent Scott Wilson).

There weren't many good 4c vets available and the issue was also this weird desire for a 3c option only and keeping Blueger as the 4c when he was always trending into a 3c that Sullivan refused to see until this year where he out played Jankowski so severely, if he let his man-love for Jankowski continue as the 3c, he would be outed so hard by the media.

Rodrigues isn't a long term solution, but he's a f***ton better one than Jank right now. McCann as the 4c is a bad fit and to dump Blueger back down to the 4c to make McCann another turn around the sun as a f***ing center is just beyond f***ing lame to see yet again.
 
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CrosbyMalkin

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See and thats where I stopped agreeing. I dont have an issue with Blue and Erod individually, but I do have an issue with both of them being our bottom 6 centers. Theres no real room for error. If one or both struggle, or if theres injuries, you are scrambling.

Dont get my started on Jankowski. I wasnt impressed with the signing and for the exact reasons everyone is turning on him now. Hes as soft as the Texas power system, fades away far too often in games when the intensity ramps up, doesnt bring anything offensively and is replacement level defensively.

With the cap freeze and our actual real money cap going below $75 million because no fans in the seats we have some nice depth considering those factors.

Not many teams if any can match our Center depth. I consider Blueger one of they best 3C's in the league this year. His development makes Center a strength not a weakness. Having a good 3rd line player like McCann that can play as your 4C is also top tier for the league as a 4C. Then when you have depth forwards like Rodriguez and Jankowski who can also step in and play 4C that is incredible depth. Show me all the teams with better Center depth than that.

Crosby
Malkin
Blueger
McCann
Jankowski
Rodriguez
 

Empoleon8771

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Penguins literally won 2 cups with a 4th line that was thrown together, people can wax poetic now about how great it was, but at the time, there was a few of us trying to convince the masses here that Cullen was a good signing and not a bad pick-up and then we had Fehr and they brought up kids like Kuhnhackl and Wilson.

Fehr and Cullen are both better than anything the Penguins currently have internally to throw on the 4th line though.

Like sure, if you get another McCann type of player and make the 4th line McCann-McCann-ERod, it's probably fine. But just throwing out crap with McCann is very likely going to yield a very bad 4th line, because what we have now is a ghastly bad 4th line.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
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The goal would be to still go after a 4c that might be available right now, because of a lot of teams wanting to shake things up.

I would actually be curious about Nick Cousins as the Penguins 4c.

He's got enough skill to make the 4th line interesting, plays with an edge and is good at both ends, he's got that "style" that has the Burke seal of approval and Hextall is also very familiar with him.

O'Connor-Cousins-Sceviour would be an interesting line. Shouldn't take more than maybe just dumping the Preds Lafferty or even Jankowski.

Cousins has been a thorn to play against on every team he's been on, Flyers, Habs, Preds, etc. He's just the perfect 4c type of player that we lack.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Fehr and Cullen are both better than anything the Penguins currently have internally to throw on the 4th line though.

Like sure, if you get another McCann type of player and make the 4th line McCann-McCann-ERod, it's probably fine. But just throwing out crap with McCann is very likely going to yield a very bad 4th line, because what we have now is a ghastly bad 4th line.
At the time, the sentiment towards Cullen was hilarious and I was a very big supporter of Cullen being a solid veteran presence on the team. Fehr came in with an injury and Cullen took advantage of the opportunity.

But don't underestimate the epic whining by people about the Cullen signing and the groaning about Fehr and his injury to start the season. It's a different light people discuss it now, but I am talking about that exact moment in time, not now after the fact after people saw what they saw.

But I am in agreeance that Jankowski and Rodrigues are not long term solutions, hell I wouldn't even consider them good short term solutions, I prefer Rodrigues over Jankowski in the same way I'd prefer being stabbed over shot, the preference is neither.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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We can tinker with the 4th line, and it'd be great to have a good 4th line again, but until Sid and Geno (and the top-6 as a whole) shows up in the playoffs, nothing matters.
 

JRS91

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Jul 4, 2010
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Archibald is a bottom tier 4th line player and no better than Rodriguez and to compare him in any way to Tanev is actually laughable. Archibald is not an upgrade on any of the players we have now. Trading McCann for him is terrible. If we are trading McCann it won't be for a journeyman 4th liner.

When on Earth did I say Archibald is an upgrade?

Read my post again. I'm saying we should've kept Archibald. I said Tanev is the better player, but to say they aren't comparable is laughable. I'm not even into advanced stats and their analytics are comparable. He's half as much annually and signed for one more season versus four more seasons. That's just a bad contract. Not a bad player, just a bad contract. If Tanev loses his speed, it's over for him.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
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Jun 13, 2010
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I’m down for a McCann-Archibald swap.
BART
DOC-Jank-Archibald

I'm going to go ahead and veto that pretty hard.

Archibald is like Sundqvist - its like, dude, if you had shown what you have now when you were still in Pittsburgh, you'd likely still be there. Let's not romanticize Archibald's time in Pit like we do Bonino (Bonino actually has merit). He was a 4th line player in the same mold of Lafferty. It was a quick energetic 4th line player for us. Nothing more. 18 GP, 3G, 3pts. Again, glad he broke out but it wasn't likely happening in Pit.

He's a 20-25pt player at the moment. That's nothing special and certaintly not something I'm trading McCann for.

I'm betting Hextall sees the top 6 and BART and rather complete in addition to the defense and goaltending (possibly). Problem is the lack of 4th line or 3B. I think McCann does help it but I'm also wondering if he doesn't try to use McCann to build a better 4th line. I would look to bring in a Bennett, Virtanen, Gaudette, etc. Try for two pieces then you can waive the likes of Lafferty or Jankowski. ERod I think they give the chance to but I'm not sure what we do with that.

McCann+2nd for Virtanen+Gaudette.

BART
ERod-Gaudette-Virtanen

would be a solid botton 6.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
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They got Jankowski thinking he could break out and that he plays with an edge. Sullivan was virtually drooling talking about his size and skill combination when discussing Jankowski. But he's a size queen's dream on paper, only on paper.

3 games in, he showed why he was being used the way he was by the Flames, he's just not consistent and likely never will be. But that edge, this team hasn't had anyone that plays with it at all. Cousins for me, ticks off all the boxes for a 4c. Including not very much to land him from the Predators.
 

HandshakeLine

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Nov 9, 2005
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I’m all for getting an agitator who’s got some mitts. I’ve always thought a shit-stirrer is more effective here than an enforcer.

But if we bring in an agitator, Coach Todd better get that PK up to snuff (which frankly he should do anyway). It’s nuts that it’s so bad, given the professed amount of speed on the roster.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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I’m all for getting an agitator who’s got some mitts. I’ve always thought a shit-stirrer is more effective here than an enforcer.

But if we bring in an agitator, Coach Todd better get that PK up to snuff (which frankly he should do anyway). It’s nuts that it’s so bad, given the professed amount of speed on the roster.
We have a lot of similar types on this team, which worked for the 2 cups but since then, the teams that won cups had a lot more ornery types sprinkled into the line-up while the Pens couldn't figure out which versions they needed - Reaves was too enforcer type for them, Oleksiak was miscast, Gudbranson was a great fighter but that cap hit and play wasn't worth it, etc.

Cousins is a happy medium of pest that can also fight (although not to be confused with a seasoned fighter). But he's a Cooke/Bones type.
 
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Dipsy Doodle

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May 28, 2006
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Pens need to be all over a Preds firesale. In particular Forsberg, if he's available.

Forsberg-Malkin-Kapanen....Forsberg manning the left wall on the PP...oh yeah.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Zucker, Crosby, Kapanen
Guentzel, Malkin, Rust
McCann, Blueger, Tanev
Aston-Reese, Cousins, Sceviour

I think that's a balanced roster that has some punch on that 4th line.
 
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