Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Where we talk about Jussi Jokinen

[BHD]

Recent posts from the previous thread...

Kapanen is the largest enigma currently on the team, to me at least. I have no idea where he should slot.

I think Malkin-Kapanen has been fine, but you need more of a playmaker on the left side. Or a guy who makes space out there.

I don't think it's a playmaker per se that you need there. I think THAT is a spot you need some nasty or ugly. Skilled enough/good enough at reading Malkin to make enough plays, especially in transition? Absolutely. But, you need some nasty there too. Aside from Jake-Malkin-Rust, that's always been the essential ingredient with one winger in the very best Malkin lines.

Alright I’ve solved it. We’re going full Hextall/Burke/Ghost of JR.

McCann for Bennett
Zucker, Jarry, Poulin for Gibson and some AHL jobber
Pettersson for Kassian and 3rd round pick



Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Bennett-Malkin-Kapanen
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Scevior-Jankowski-Kassian

Dumoulin-Letang
Matheson-Marino
Joseph-Ceci

Gibson
DeSmith

so Panarin-Geno-Kap or Tkuchuk-G-Kap...Hextall needs to get to work

Click to read more...

 

[66-30-33]

Matt Tkachuk, Kassian (some cap retained), Bennett, Foligno (cap retained), Greenway. We will trade our bad players for those players and make the money work out somehow. Might not win the cup but we will finish out our cores years with a BANG!

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Sign good players, trade bad players for great returns. Do good things not bad things, the thread

 

[Tom Hanks]

Just saw the thread title @BHD

 

[SEALBound]

Who was on Malkin's other wing in 2011-2012?

Kunitz was the partner. Neal was the passenger.

That said, your characterization of Neal as a partner and assumption that there's ever been a good Malkin line that didn't show instant chemistry does give me insight to your perspective on this subject, so best that we just agree to disagree and call it a day.

I certainly don't want to get into a mode where I am defending Neal but I will here, he was not the passenger. Both he and Kunitz were partners. That season was peak Neal and he was tremendous. NOT a passenger.

You sure Jokinen-Malkin-Neal was a thing every game between November 9 and November 22?

I only ask because looking at game logs, Malkin assisted on ES goals by Brain Gibbons and Beau Bennett during that period.

EDIT: The Jokinen-Malkin-Neal line did start lighting things up in that November 22 game. I don't think they were together the moment Neal returned, but even if they had been, it was the 7th game since Neal returned.

Lol, I remember your in-season thoughts on Jokinen quite well

I had completely forgotten Jussi Jokinen was on this team at one point. Those were some Pens years I’d prefer to forget.

f***ing what? Dude cost a conditional 7th to get @50% and turned in 11 points in 10 games in the regular season, then followed it up with a 21g, 57pt season with a 7g, 13pt in 10gp playoffs. He then cashed in with Florida. The f*** you mean forget? He was fantastic here ESPECIALLY considering what it cost to get him (thanks JR, lol).

Don't forget Ponikarovsky, Spaling, Perron etc....anybody remember Blake Comeau? Remember when Malkin yelled at him on the bench in 2015 for deferring too much against the Flyers? Man, Zucker has shades of Comeau in that regard.

Two of those (three with Jokinen) are not like the other two. Comeau was a heck of deal here. I would love to have him in the bottom 6 right now. Perron still produced (produced in the past, produced here, and continues to produce...and is honestly quite underrated in terms of consistent production) but the fit wasn't there. Believe it or not, you can still score but not fit.

Sprong was a poor mans Tangradi, whom was a poor mans Bennett. Malkin can play with snipers, you just need to get him one.

I am absolutely beyond baffled how you came to this conclusion...

Kapanen is the largest enigma currently on the team, to me at least. I have no idea where he should slot.

...huh? Ummm...the top 6...next to Malkin. Why is that even a question?

Let me guess, because you saw one tweet where someone called him a 3RW?

 

[TySmith4Norris]

Said it once and going to say it again, if they won’t play Guentzel with Malkin they should try:

Guentzel-Crosby-Zucker
Tanev-Malkin-Rust
ZAR-Blueger-Kapanen

They won’t, but it sure would be fun if they did

 

[66-30-33]

Jokinen was money in the shootout.

 

[SEALBound]

Sign good players, trade bad players for great returns. Do good things not bad things, the thread

Agreed. I just hope someone can come here and inform us that Rutherford signed Jankowski and Rodrigues about 1,000 times.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Agreed. I just hope someone can come here and inform us that Rutherford signed Jankowski and Rodrigues about 1,000 times.

You got it all wrong he didn't sign Jankowski and Rodrigues, he signed Rodrigues and Jankowski

 

[KIRK]

Will reiterate this from the last thread:

What came through for me in the last few games is your two red flags as a team are the mix on L2 and goaltending and that for Hextall there are two potential paths he can take where the Pens COULD turn out to be better positioned for a little run than I might have appreciated a few weeks ago.

Option 1:

(1) Move one of Dumo or Pets for a better mix with Malkin and Kapanen. Not necessarily a better player in the abstract than Zucker, but a better fit.

(2) Watch the goaltending situation and make a mini move for a truer challenger to Jarry/DeSmith for the playoffs.

In this scenario, Zucker-McCann become 2/3 of another bottom 6 line to go with BART, and truth be told, you're VERY deep up front. Goaltending is a concern, but your hope is better team play with 4 good lines to sustain possession will help enough. You'll still have concerns about some individual players. BUT . . . I'm not sure I'd worry for this Pens team against anyone in the division save Boston.

Option 2:

(1) Tackle the red flags. Zucker, McCann, and one of Dumo or Pets are your main pieces to find that better complement for L2 LW and to upgrade in net

(2) Use secondary and tertiary assets to tweak that 4th line as best as you can.

The trade off here is a weaker 4th line for presumably a more serious upgrade in net. Similar read on how the Pens would stack up in this scenario, although I think the Pens would match up more favorably against Boston with that upgraded goaltending.

It will be interesting to see what exactly Hextall does.

I'm not sure the situation is totally unlike where JR was in November 2015. It would take Hextall drawing runner, runner on an inside straight draw, but if he does, then truthfully he'll have done as much as one could hope.

From there, it's on the coach and the players and getting some puck luck (something every team that goes deep gets).

 

[The Grim Reaper]

f***ing what? Dude cost a conditional 7th to get @50% and turned in 11 points in 10 games in the regular season, then followed it up with a 21g, 57pt season with a 7g, 13pt in 10gp playoffs. He then cashed in with Florida. The f*** you mean forget? He was fantastic here ESPECIALLY considering what it cost to get him (thanks JR, lol).

Literally just blocked that timeframe out in my mind. Jussi Jokinen might as well have been Beau Bennett. That timeframe was 00-04 to me.

 

[KIRK]

Just saw the thread title @BHD

Oh ****, I just did the same thing.

 

[TySmith4Norris]

In terms of realistic first moves for new management to make, the fourth line has been awful for more than a handful of games and Sceviour has not been great

They should be looking to add there, don’t see any major changes happening at defense or the top 6 anytime soon

 

[SEALBound]

You got it all wrong he didn't sign Jankowski and Rodrigues, he signed Rodrigues and Jankowski

Ruined the team. I'm surprised Lemieux hasn't been forced to sell the team. Ruined. Absolutely ruined! We'll never win again. Forget that new jersey post boot camp boy, NHL won't even let them sell them after that decable. Ruined. Awful just awful. I can't believe it. I mean...JanKOWski...and RodRIGues! Can't you imagine!? I can't imagine. Ruin the team.

Awful.

Literally just blocked that timeframe out in my mind. Jussi Jokinen might as well have been Beau Bennett. That timeframe was 00-04 to me.

...I have absolutely no idea what to make of this. Yeah, not great years but...we were cup contenders and Jokinen was a 20 goal scorer at like $1.5mil who cost a 7th. We made it to the 3rd then 2nd rounds.

If that's what you block out, I hate to see what the last two years has done to you.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Oh ****, I just did the same thing.

LOL same. Great title. I’d give a like, but I just lost my privilege to do so for making fun of the Leafs losing to a 3 (now 4) win Sens team. I just need to stay off HFB General. Only trouble brews there.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The thread title should have been where we talk about trades and line combos that will never happen.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

...I have absolutely no idea what to make of this. Yeah, not great years but...we were cup contenders and Jokinen was a 20 goal scorer at like $1.5mil who cost a 7th. We made it to the 3rd then 2nd rounds.

If that's what you block out, I hate to see what the last two years has done to you.

I have to be honest, I can’t tell if you’re joking or not. I hope you are.

 

[KIRK]

Ruined the team. I'm surprised Lemieux hasn't been forced to sell the team. Ruined. Absolutely ruined! We'll never win again. Forget that new jersey post boot camp boy, NHL won't even let them sell them after that decable. Ruined. Awful just awful. I can't believe it. I mean...JanKOWski...and RodRIGues! Can't you imagine!? I can't imagine. Ruin the team.

Awful.



...I have absolutely no idea what to make of this. Yeah, not great years but...we were cup contenders and Jokinen was a 20 goal scorer at like $1.5mil who cost a 7th. We made it to the 3rd then 2nd rounds.

If that's what you block out, I hate to see what the last two years has done to you.

Funny thing is Jokinen had 10 points in 13 playoff games that season (many of them without Malkin as they slid Malkin up to play with Sid to help him (that's a year Sid had the hurt wrist and was struggling) and I think Dupuis back with Jokinen and Neal.

BTW, that 10 points in 13 playoff games Jokinen had . . . same number of playoff points as Zucker has had . . . in his 35 career playoff games.

 

[KIRK]

The thread title should have been where we talk about trades and line combos that will never happen.

I don't know. I still think Hextall might stage an intervention before Sullivan's bench management leads to someone needing to sign commitment papers for Malkin.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Will reiterate this from the last thread:

What came through for me in the last few games is your two red flags as a team are the mix on L2 and goaltending and that for Hextall there are two potential paths he can take where the Pens COULD turn out to be better positioned for a little run than I might have appreciated a few weeks ago.

Option 1:

(1) Move one of Dumo or Pets for a better mix with Malkin and Kapanen. Not necessarily a better player in the abstract than Zucker, but a better fit.

(2) Watch the goaltending situation and make a mini move for a truer challenger to Jarry/DeSmith for the playoffs.

In this scenario, Zucker-McCann become 2/3 of another bottom 6 line to go with BART, and truth be told, you're VERY deep up front. Goaltending is a concern, but your hope is better team play with 4 good lines to sustain possession will help enough. You'll still have concerns about some individual players. BUT . . . I'm not sure I'd worry for this Pens team against anyone in the division save Boston.

Option 2:

(1) Tackle the red flags. Zucker, McCann, and one of Dumo or Pets are your main pieces to find that better complement for L2 LW and to upgrade in net

(2) Use secondary and tertiary assets to tweak that 4th line as best as you can.

The trade off here is a weaker 4th line for presumably a more serious upgrade in net. Similar read on how the Pens would stack up in this scenario, although I think the Pens would match up more favorably against Boston with that upgraded goaltending.

It will be interesting to see what exactly Hextall does.

I'm not sure the situation is totally unlike where JR was in November 2015. It would take Hextall drawing runner, runner on an inside straight draw, but if he does, then truthfully he'll have done as much as one could hope.

From there, it's on the coach and the players and getting some puck luck (something every team that goes deep gets).

Goaltending is projecting volatility because the team has been projecting volatility. They've been mostly bad for a calendar year and give up great chances out of nothing. Half the defensemen have been hurt and the PK plays like a 5-on-3.

I've just now started to see a team that isn't teetering, whose D is getting healthy and hope goaltending follows suit. The PK even did decent (ish) yesterday although I despise how collapse-tastic they are once the other guys gain possession.

I'd be fine grabbing another goalie but no one buys that Tristan Jarry is as bad as his save %. If the team bought that there would already be another goalie here.

...watch I wake up tomorrow morning and there's another goalie here.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I don’t know if anybody saw the MAF interview yesterday, but his teeth looked primed and ready to come back to PA.

Letang also looked like he had an extra hop in his step.

Somewhere Talbot is practicing on a pond.

 

[KIRK]

Goaltending is projecting volatility because the team has been projecting volatility. They've been mostly bad for a calendar year and give up great chances out of nothing. Half the defensemen have been hurt and the PK plays like a 5-on-3.

I've just now started to see a team that isn't teetering, whose D is getting healthy and hope goaltending follows suit. The PK even did decent (ish) yesterday although I despise how collapse-tastic they are once the other guys gain possession.

I'd be fine grabbing another goalie but no one buys that Tristan Jarry is as bad as his save %. If the team bought that there would already be another goalie here.

...watch I wake up tomorrow morning and there's another goalie here.

Which is why the right play might be option 1:

One of Dumo or Pets for a LW who's a better fit with Malkin-Kapanen. Preferably someone with a little jam and ugly who can create space but still has enough skill and/or ability to read and react to Malkin to make it work. That's more than doable and without taking a cap hit.

In THAT scenario, as I said, Zucker-McCann becomes 2/3 of another line and you then see if that move and one more healthy defender to bump Ruh does enough to turn things for Jarry (and if it doesn't, then you look for a guy who's not necessarily a mega upgrade but does give Sullivan a better alternative than DeSmith).

EDIT: The true flaw in this approach is Sullivan may not use that guy added to better complement Malkin-Kapanen on a line with Malkin-Kapanen because 'what about Zucker'.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

FML...

 

[KIRK]

Gotta repeat this from the last thread:

We all had our fun when Brian Burke talked about needing to add guys who can play ugly hockey.

If he was talking about adding a dozen Dustin Penners (and a couple of hundred thousand donuts to keep them fed), then the mockery is well deserved.

BUT, if he was talking about the Pens needing what he's called swiss army knife players (like Kunitz, who he loved and he saw as someone who could and would do all kinds of different things) and warriors (like Bonino or Hornqvist or Cole), then frankly he's onto something, because guys like that play instrumental roles on cup winners, and the Pens never replaced any of them.

EDIT: @The Grim Reaper . . . I'm in Boulder CO for a visit. Saturday was a high of 9 and a low of 1. Yesterday was a high of 5 and a low of -5. That's actual temps. It 'felt' colder than that. Even my pups were going out and looking at me like 'who the **** are you kidding'.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Discussion of Line 2 aside, I am skeptical that Burke/Hextall make any major move until close to the deadline. I have a feeling they're going to spend a lot of time observing, taking notes, talking to people in the organization, talking to other organizations, letting the team get healthy, etc. Pettersson may be back in the lineup Tuesday, but Dumoulin hasn't even been skating. I just don't think they'll move one of those LD contracts before Dumoulin returns, especially if they think it may be worth moving Dumoulin down the road.