Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - What Comes Next?

[vodeni]

I just feel like I need to write it over and over again. DO NOT move Rust for the sake of moving Rust. I think RUsty is going to thrive with the current play of the Pens. I think he's going to be amazing.

We got rid of a huge 4m. We have JJ left to move and Bjugs is movable now since he is not really needed. If we get rid of even ONE of those guys, we can bring a scorer in because personally I think we could really use a goal scorer winger. And it gives us money to pay who we need to pay. That is monster stuff.

Once again - baby steps. Sadly this buys a lot more time for JJ. Bjugs is easily movable, IMO. I think we are fine. We are moving back in the right place and it's all due to a few guys who are delivering when we needed it the most - Laff & Marino.

We still do not have a solution for that 3rd line center position. None of the players currently on this roster are not capable of carrying that third line. Lafferty is intriguing prospect and I would try him as a third line center for maybe while Geno is out, to see if he can fill that role. If not it must be a trade

 

[ownal]

If we did move JJ. Who would you even target as a top 4 LD making around 7 million? What would the trade be?

Pedds - Marino would be my ideal 3rd pair. A very serviceable pair making less than 2 million.

 

[vodeni]

I will second others positions pro Rust. I have never changed my mind on Rust. He is who we want to be under Sully, the guy you can slide from 1st to 4th RW and can impact the game with his tempo and speed..

 

[ColePens]

We still do not have a solution for that 3rd line center position. None of the players currently on this roster are not capable of carrying that third line. Lafferty is intriguing prospect and I would try him as a third line center for maybe while Geno is out, to see if he can fill that role. If not it must be a trade

I think we are finding less is more. And I truly mean that. We aren't going to get Jordan Staal. A solid Nick Bonino style guy who can play within our system is all we need. The "high end" Brassard didn't work. The "high end" Bjugs isn't working. That idea of a 2C being our 3C isn't working.

Jordan Staal fooled everyone because he's one of the few 2Cs who plays a rugged solid dirty game that fits a 3C mold. I think we just need to simplify it and get a less is more player who fits the mold. McCann, Laff, Blueger are enough to play with. We flank them with some guys like Tanev and another player - we are solid.

 

[K Fleur]

Having both Rust and Tanev on the same team playing on different lines sounds awesome.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And you are not looking at what they have been doing.

Schultz>>>>Tyler Mylers
Schultz = Justin Faulk but Faulk doesn't have the later success Schultz does.

Okay, what is this based on? You're just saying this is true without any sort of background evidence to support it.

I'm the one actually paying attention to how these guys are playing. You're stuck in 2017 with what you think of Schultz.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think we are finding less is more. And I truly mean that. We aren't going to get Jordan Staal. A solid Nick Bonino style guy who can play within our system is all we need. The "high end" Brassard didn't work. The "high end" Bjugs isn't working. That idea of a 2C being our 3C isn't working.

Jordan Staal fooled everyone because he's one of the few 2Cs who plays a rugged solid dirty game that fits a 3C mold. I think we just need to simplify it and get a less is more player who fits the mold. McCann, Laff, Blueger are enough to play with. We flank them with some guys like Tanev and another player - we are solid.

2/2 on posts I couldn't agree any more with if I tried.

Going down the "high end 3C" rabbit hole has cost this team a lot of time, money and assets. It's always been silly. If you want one... just hope you can draft one.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In Schultz's last 3 seasons, this is what his stats are:

-6 goals and 47 points in 103 games, pace of 5 goals and 37 points per 82 games (40% of production is on the PP)
-Massively negative relative analytics (-5.00% CF%Rel, -6.71% HDCF%Rel, -4.68% xGF%Rel)
-He has missed 72 games due to injury in the last 3 years
-Does not kill penalties

Compared to Tyler Myers:

-15 goals and 70 points in 172 games, pace of 7 goals and 33 points per 82 games (34% of production is on the PP)
-Poor relative analytics (-0.02% CF%Rel, -2.82% HDCF%Rel, -2.14% xGF%Rel)
-Has missed 2 games due to injury in the last 3 years
-Kills penalties

I can do the same with Faulk, which ends up extremely similar to Myers. So how exactly is Schultz better or a more attractive RD than these guys?

 

[BrookswasHere44]

What’s this weird obsession with wanting to trade Murray instead of paying him currently be careful what you wish for if you trade him

I don't think anyone wants to trade him (we're just saying we would for Gibson DUH)

Most everyone probably agrees anything over 6.5 AAV would be annoying.

I've been saying it for awhile....Do. Not. Trade. Jarry......Yet at least

 

[Ugene Magic]

If Schultz is replaced internally in terms of his OFD role, it'll be by Pettersson, not Marino, with Marino acting more as Pettersson's Ian Cole.

I feel that thought is out in left field. With respect. I just don't see that at all.

Schultz will be 3 years older than Faulk when he signs his contract. Also right now the market is flooded with fa defensemen next offseason. That will change over the course of the year but a 30 year old justin shultz is not going to get long term 7million.

Im guessing he gets something like 5avv x 6yrs or 6avv x 5yrs. Both coming out at 30million. Idk if it will be the pens who give him that or not. But I dont see much more than that. He is going to look for term over aav since this will be his last big ticket. The league is getting younger and teams dont want players over 35 anymore.

Bold: I scanned the teams of their FA's, and the ones worth signing won't be there, and the ones left either won't be a RHS RD or will be worth signing over Justin Schults.

Schultz won't be making less then he currently does so your first option is out, and your second one is good if he returns here. On the open market is another story when even if the market is flooded with D-men or not, the most sought after RHS RD isn't going to be that flooded, and D-men can play well into their 30's. They generally are not seen as finished products until their mid to late 20's.

I can see your 6 yrs that will take him to 35, but he'll get more then Faulk even with Faulk being younger on the open market.

Schultz comes as a proven commodity built on playing well and winning and there will literally be next to zero of his ilk available.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Schultz isn't even going to be the best PPQB RD available in free agency next year, Barrie's almost definitely leaving Toronto (they can't afford him) and he's miles better than Schultz at this point.

Barrie, Vatanen, Shattenkirk, Gustafsson and Brodie are all more likely than not going to be available next off-season as free agents. Add on the guys who could potentially be available, including Pietrangelo, Muzzin, Krug and Green, and it's shaping up to be an absurdly deep UFA class for defensemen.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it's at least safe to say that at this point right now as it stands... Schultz has an uphill climb to prove he is worthy of a big retirement contract with this team. He's been... eh... how you say... not so good. Going on a while, now.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I don't think anyone wants to trade him (we're just saying we would for Gibson DUH)

Most everyone probably agrees anything over 6.5 AAV would be annoying.

I've been saying it for awhile....Do. Not. Trade. Jarry......Yet at least

Everyone appreciates him winning us those cups....and without him we def dont win(Fleury helped that 2nd year but I dont think he would have gotten past the Sens. Murray coming in was perfect and frustrated them).

But does that mean he gets a lifetime pass IF he continues to not steal games for us in the playoffs? Id say he was the main reason we lost against Caps in 18. And last year he didn't help our offense find any type of rhythm. We'd score first and hed immediately let one in a min later. Clock work. He def had a better season overall last year tho than the previous one so thats a good sign.

I just wouldnt be comfortable dishing out a longterm deal with high cap hit. Then he will for sure be judged as much as Fleury was. And I'm not referring to the casual fans on social media.

JR is usually smart with this tho...spend the money on others first so we dont have the space for that big contract lol. And honestly, he should know he has to be better than the last two years before asking to be paid like a top goalie in the league. Yeah the cups alone should make him set for life, but if we want to win more? 1. We need as much cap space as possible for the rest of the lineup as Sid/Geno/Letang continue to get older. And 2. He needs to get at least close to where he was during those cup runs. Scoring is up so I dont expect him to match those numbers...just get that confidence back that he somehow had at 20-21 but not as much now... Numbers aside I'm sure we can all agree he doesnt look the same as he did. That calmness he had in net. Or letting up a horrible goal and not letting it faze him at all and shutting the team down the rest of the way. As good as our offense was...without him we dont win those cups. I dont want him to be the reason we dont win anymore tho. Ive been mentioning this ever since he got hurt and was dealing with personal issues before the 2018 playoffs(when he struggled agaisnt Philly and lost to Caps).

But like some of the other FAs we have....he has a year to prove hes back on track. So we'll see. If he wants to really take over in Pitt as the most beloved goalie in Pens history(other words....end the Fleury BS with some of the casual fans) then help with the cap and this current window. Dont handicapp us(has every right to of course) and prevent us from having a Galchenyuk plus Zucker type winger for our top 6...sign an extension that coincides with this window. The team will obviously give him what hes earned..under the table anyway lol

 

[Ugene Magic]

Okay, what is this based on? You're just saying this is true without any sort of background evidence to support it.

I'm the one actually paying attention to how these guys are playing. You're stuck in 2017 with what you think of Schultz.

And you ignore everything that surrounds Justin Schultz path afterwards and will use it (small sample size stats) as the end result that is JS.

Never mind injuries, or the team in general is a mess.

No. People expect Just Schultz to be the finger of God. He must be... this or he's trash. And that's where I put the stats these last 2 years. Expecting more after missing that much time and the team being what it is.

You are being overly judgmental.

Over 1/2 seasons of misfortune.

Sorry...not buying what you are selling. I doubt any team will either.

His last 92 games before this year (2 seasons) he was 6-36 = 42 points and +22 while missing to the amount almost a full season at 72 games.

Not buying it. He's at .454 PPG playing behind Letang less Malkin.

Look beyond the stats.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And you ignore everything that surrounds Justin Schultz path afterwards and will use it (small sample size stats) as the end result that is JS.

Never mind injuries, or the team in general is a mess.

No. People expect Just Schultz to be the finger of God. He must be... this or he's trash. And that's where I put the stats these last 2 years. Expecting more after missing that much time and the team being what it is.

You are being overly judgmental.

Over 1/2 seasons of misfortune.

Sorry...not buying what you are selling. I doubt any team will either.

His last 92 games before this year (2 seasons) he was 6-36 = 42 points and +22 while missing to the amount almost a full season at 72 games.

Not buying it. He's at .454 PPG playing behind Letang less Malkin.

Look beyond the stats.

This does absolutely nothing to say why Schultz is somehow better or more valuable than Faulk or Myers. Like how do you think this convinces me I'm wrong? Your entire argument is "you're wrong because I say you're wrong, and I'm right because I say I'm right".

Schultz hasn't played like a $5.5 million defenseman during his current contract. He wasn't particularly good in 2017-2018, and has been bad in each of the last 2 years. Those are actual facts on how he has played. He hasn't been better than guys like Myers in the last 3 years, that's just a fact. There is literally nothing available that suggests he is better. Production? Schultz is marginally more productive while being a pure OFD who's bad defensively. Analytics? Schultz is an analytical nightmare. You are completely stuck in 2017 with how you're evaluating Schultz, he looks like a shell of what he once was.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I think it's at least safe to say that at this point right now as it stands... Schultz has an uphill climb to prove he is worthy of a big retirement contract with this team. He's been... eh... how you say... not so good. Going on a while, now.

And there are a handful of FA dmen we could sign for around same price who would be better. Not that they'd sign here in July...but we could make that trade before hand....work something out with Toronto and Barrie. They need forwards/dmen on ELCs obviously...just about whole D corps are UFAs. And have to reup some forwards who are already doing well with Hyman/Tavares out. We could take someone with contract and Barrie(since hes only making 3 mil compared to 5.5 for Schultz so would require a bigger raise) for Schultz and Simon for example. Along those lines. Or someone they dont think theyll be able to re-sign.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

And there are a handful of FA dmen we could sign for around same price who would be better. Not that they'd sign here in July...but we could make that trade before hand....work something out with Toronto and Barrie. They need forwards/dmen on ELCs obviously...just about whole D corps are UFAs. And have to reup some forwards who are already doing well with Hyman/Tavares out. We could take someone with contract and Barrie for Schultz and Simon for example. Along those lines. Or someone they dont think theyll be able to re-sign.

I actually really like Schultz and ideally I would simply want to see him turn it around and play like a guy worth ~6M per. But, even taking the injury into account... he's just never quite reached that same level that he did in his first couple seasons here. And you can't help but be concerned about that, particularly when the defense already needs work and as you pointed out there are potential options on the table in FA.

 

[Peat]

I'm completely content with that only because L4 is going to be great, too. We don't have to rush it, by any means, but we just don't need Bjugs.

I think everyone who is saying be patient and just let it all unfold are definitely correct. But i've seen more out of not having Bjugs in the lineup than having him in the lineup. The tenacity level is beyond amazing. And bjugs isn't dominating points to negate that.

I think I get what you're coming from but I'm not sure I agree. Yes this team has looked more tenacious without Bjugstad but how much of that's because of replacing him and how much of that is a change in team philosophy that's coincided with his injury? Are we sure Bjugstad can't play at this sort of pace?

In any case - I don't think it is impossible to function with the current group as 3Cs but even with a strong 4th line, I'm not so happy with it as to think our best 3C of recent times is definitely not needed.

I feel that thought is out in left field. With respect. I just don't see that at all.

Maybe, but I think it's a lot less left field than the idea Marino could reach that level of offensive power as to make Schultz redundant.

 

[ColePens]

I think I get what you're coming from but I'm not sure I agree. Yes this team has looked more tenacious without Bjugstad but how much of that's because of replacing him and how much of that is a change in team philosophy that's coincided with his injury? Are we sure Bjugstad can't play at this sort of pace?

In any case - I don't think it is impossible to function with the current group as 3Cs but even with a strong 4th line, I'm not so happy with it as to think our best 3C of recent times is definitely not needed.

Honestly i'm more patient than most online. I am willing to watch and see. But from what i've seen so far... no. He can't and he plays with zero tenacity. Now i am willing to wait and see and let him show it. But I don't see it.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I actually really like Schultz and ideally I would simply want to see him turn it around and play like a guy worth ~6M per. But, even taking the injury into account... he's just never quite reached that same level that he did in his first couple seasons here. And you can't help but be concerned about that, particularly when the defense already needs work and as you pointed out there are potential options on the table in FA.

Yeah again, Like Murray....he was huge for us in that 2nd cup without Letang. Timely goals on the PP. He really stepped up for us. But hes another where Id be worried that we would be making a Hawks/Kings type reup. Due to what he did for us instead of going forward. And if we do pay him 7mil or so and he gets hurt again...then struggles. There's no dumping this contract like JR has been lucky with so far. Would be very risky. And we do have Petts, Marino on the rise. Also POJ not far behind. With Addison having a high ceiling and future PP QB.

So we can get by on short term additions on D til those guys pan out(if they do....better not be Morrow, Pouliot, Harrington, 2.0). Tho we do also have Almari...excited about him as well

Also...while unsigned..keep an eye on former 4th rounder Ryan Jones. Yeah we basically counted him out cuz he couldnt really produce at any level but look out....4 GP and 2g 2a . Already career high in goals.

Late bloomer thats all. Watch the rest of our guys bust and he ends up the next Dumo

 

[ColePens]

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