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Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Please Be Nice To Us, JR

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ownal

ownal

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Our defense has improved since last year and so has our top 6. Boy do we really need Poulin to step in big.
 

CrosbyMalkin

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I couldn't respond to Tom Hanks because the post got locked. Your stats are flawed. So Letang played 25:44 minutes a game and Marino played 20:15. Which leaves 14:01 minutes for our 3 RD which is Ceci. You bring up how past 3 RD's average more minutes than that. The reason for that is because that is when another defenseman is injured. So in a healthy lineup Ceci only has about 14 minutes available. But of course in times of a Marino or Letang is hurt Ceci will play 20+ minutes a night. It is great that we have a 3 RD that has had played those big minutes against the best forwards (83% quality of opponent).

So I guess we are both right because I was talking minutes when everyone is healthy and you are talking finished minutes for the year. When the defense is healthy Ceci will play 14-15 minutes a night and when Letang or Marino are hurt Ceci will average over 20 minutes a night. So he could average 17-18 minutes a night depending on the health of Letang and Marino. That still makes my point that he is a great add. Sheltered minutes when he is playing 3rd pairing and then more quality minutes when needed due to injury.
 
Gurglesons

Gurglesons

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CrosbyMalkin said:
I couldn't respond to Tom Hanks because the post got locked. Your stats are flawed. So Letang played 25:44 minutes a game and Marino played 20:15. Which leaves 14:01 minutes for our 3 RD which is Ceci. You bring up how past 3 RD's average more minutes than that. The reason for that is because that is when another defenseman is injured. So in a healthy lineup Ceci only has about 14 minutes available. But of course in times of a Marino or Letang is hurt Ceci will play 20+ minutes a night. It is great that we have a 3 RD that has had played those big minutes against the best forwards (83% quality of opponent).

So I guess we are both right because I was talking minutes when everyone is healthy and you are talking finished minutes for the year. When the defense is healthy Ceci will play 14-15 minutes a night and when Letang or Marino are hurt Ceci will average over 20 minutes a night. So he could average 17-18 minutes a night depending on the health of Letang and Marino. That still makes my point that he is a great add. Sheltered minutes when he is playing 3rd pairing and then more quality minutes when needed due to injury.
Click to expand...

You’re not factoring in OT 3v3 time in your averages or injuries. When healthy we usually see Letang around 22 minutes a game depending on special teams.
 

CrosbyMalkin

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Gurglesons said:
You’re not factoring in OT 3v3 time in your averages or injuries. When healthy we usually see Letang around 22 minutes a game depending on special teams.
Click to expand...

The bottom line is Letang has averaged between 25-26 minutes every year and Marino has already averaged 20:15 as a rookie. Ceci will not need to play the hard minutes like he has in the past. Ceci being at 83% quality of opponent with 55% defensive zone starts won't be needed with the Pens. Ceci was going against the other teams best forwards while also starting in his own end for the majority of that time. For him to have a 52% EV def was pretty good for that quality of opponent and start. I think Ceci will excel not needing to play against the top forwards which will be Letang's job first and Marino's next. Ceci with his 78% rating PK is also very strong. We could of done much worse for a little over 1 million. Ceci is world's better than JJ, Schultz, and Ruhwedel.
 
Gurglesons

Gurglesons

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CrosbyMalkin said:
The bottom line is Letang has averaged between 25-26 minutes every year and Marino has already averaged 20:15 as a rookie. Ceci will not need to play the hard minutes like he has in the past. Ceci being at 83% quality of opponent with 55% defensive zone starts won't be needed with the Pens. Ceci was going against the other teams best forwards while also starting in his own end for the majority of that time. For him to have a 52% EV def was pretty good for that quality of opponent and start. I think Ceci will excel not needing to play against the top forwards which will be Letang's job first and Marino's next. Ceci with his 78% rating PK is also very strong. We could of done much worse for a little over 1 million. Ceci is world's better than JJ, Schultz, and Ruhwedel.
Click to expand...

I mean, I think we all hope this is true.

I just see nothing in Sullivan’s previous usage of players like Ceci that backs it up.

And if you are using Ceci that way you have to pair him with Matheson (which is a bad idea) or put
Matheson in more difficult usage. Which is the whole problem.
 
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Tom Hanks

Tom Hanks

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CrosbyMalkin said:
I couldn't respond to Tom Hanks because the post got locked. Your stats are flawed. So Letang played 25:44 minutes a game and Marino played 20:15. Which leaves 14:01 minutes for our 3 RD which is Ceci. You bring up how past 3 RD's average more minutes than that. The reason for that is because that is when another defenseman is injured. So in a healthy lineup Ceci only has about 14 minutes available. But of course in times of a Marino or Letang is hurt Ceci will play 20+ minutes a night. It is great that we have a 3 RD that has had played those big minutes against the best forwards (83% quality of opponent).

So I guess we are both right because I was talking minutes when everyone is healthy and you are talking finished minutes for the year. When the defense is healthy Ceci will play 14-15 minutes a night and when Letang or Marino are hurt Ceci will average over 20 minutes a night. So he could average 17-18 minutes a night depending on the health of Letang and Marino. That still makes my point that he is a great add. Sheltered minutes when he is playing 3rd pairing and then more quality minutes when needed due to injury.
Click to expand...

How much he plays for the year matters because the more he plays the worse off we’ll be. Micah’s stats say the more he has the puck on his stick the worse he’ll be.

Half of Ruhwedel’s games as a Penguin he plays more than 16 minutes and he’s viewed as a #7/8.

Ceci is going to play more than you think and we’ll be worse for it.
 
Pens x

Pens x

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Which of these free agents were healthy scratches and had horrible seasons? That will be our guy.
 
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CrosbyMalkin

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Tom Hanks said:
How much he plays for the year matters because the m
ore he plays the worse off we’ll be. Micah’s stats say the more he has the puck on his stick the worse he’ll be.

Half of Ruhwedel’s games as a Penguin he plays more than 16 minutes and he’s viewed as a #7/8.

Ceci is going to play more than you think and we’ll be worse for it.
Click to expand...

Bottom line is when Letang and Marino are healthy they are going to get the majority of the minutes at RD. Letang has been close to 26 minutes a game and Marino was over 20 minutes a game as a rookie. So when healthy at RD Ceci will get the low minutes I am talking about which is about 14 minutes during a normal game. Of course when injuries happen Ceci will get more minutes and I sure rather Ceci getting those more minutes than Ruhwedel, JJ, or Schultz. Ceci played very tough minutes last year with an 83% quality of opponent with 55% defensive zone starts and still managed a 52% EV def. Which Shultz and JJ couldn't do even with a much easier matchups so I am very glad to have Ceci at $1.25 million considering he was much better than Schultz was last year.
 
madinsomniac

madinsomniac

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Any player signed to less than a million on a one year deal isn’t going to be a big problem unless misused by the staff... that kind of deal can be buried or traded with little impact... its fine to take a couple shots with low cost players in hopes of a breakout season, but you don’t want too many of those at once ... honestly if JR brought in AA for under 1 mil that would be great... the best case scenario is that all of Sully’s irrational player hate was focused on AA for his bad plays and there would be none left over for other players that we wish would get more playing time lol
 

CrosbyMalkin

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Aug 7, 2005
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Gurglesons said:
I mean, I think we all hope this is true.

I just see nothing in Sullivan’s previous usage of players like Ceci that backs it up.

And if you are using Ceci that way you have to pair him with Matheson (which is a bad idea) or put
Matheson in more difficult usage. Which is the whole problem.
Click to expand...

I want Matheson-Marino anyways and think he can handle the more minutes with a quality linemate. Matheson has a ton of talent and just needs paired with the right defenseman that complements his play. Just like Letang looks bad when not paired with a quality defenseman to cover for him when he takes risks. With the way Matheson and Marino can skate that will be a very strong 2nd pairing that can bring good offense and can win a ton of puck battles. Matheson has many strong points and is in the top 30 in several analytics. Matheson really only has that one glaring weakness and that is turnovers when he takes too many chances. Hopefully We can lower that to what it was back in his early days that got him that big contract and that Marino will also help in that department as a good support.

Use Pettersson-Ceci as the 3rd pair against the easier 3rd and 4th line matchups and keep Dumoulin-Letang and Matheson-Marino playing against the other teams top 2 lines most of the time. Pettersson-Ceci will be much more stable than JJ-Schultz who even playing the easiest minutes they gave up 5 of the 9 goals against the Habs. I don't think a Pettersson-Ceci line does that. Honestly Schultz had some of the worst defensive games I have seen in a while. Most of those goals was on him and not JJ. Schultz was constantly out of position leaving JJ against two forwards. JJ was ok when with a steady solid positional defenseman like Pettersson and Marino. JJ was at his worse with guys like Letang and Schultz.
 
TySmith4Norris

TySmith4Norris

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Will be interesting to see whether Ceci cuts more into Letang or Marino's shorthanded ice time

Marino making Jack Johnson look like a competent NHL defenseman would certainly imply he could handle the downsides to playing with Matheson, and I think Pettersson/Ceci could be a fairly high end third pair
 
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