Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by BHD, Sep 3, 2019.
Damn I guess no trade then.
I'm kinda excited by this. It creates problems next season but it makes us stronger now and there's a great opportunity this season.
It also means we can maybe trade Rust or Bjugstad one on one for a reliable JJ replacement down the line this season.
Have you seen any trades occurring, and even those discussed, like Faulk for Kase, involve salary for salary? We aren't getting a trade that dumps some cap rn because so many teams are in the same cap limbo...
Yes, those do play a factor. Johnson and Cole were both bottom pair D over this window, but Johnson's signed for forever, paid like a #4 and is older than Cole. Those are things worth mentioning, but I was talking purely from an on-ice performance..
Eh there is pretty much no way that a statistics based argument is as biased as the kind of emotional arguments you see in here regarding JJ, unless you're specifically cherrypicking stats to show he's good and ignoring ones that show he's bad.
JJ and Cole are not comparable statistically. Possession-wise, it's illustrative that JJ has literally never had a season where he was on the ice for more shots for than against.
Cole is, regularly.
Why is that a bad thing? Getting Pettersson on a cheap, short term contract is by far the best case realistic scenario because it doesn't weaken the Penguins forward depth.
Bolded the only part of your paragraph worth reading.
You are simply alone - or in very small company if you think Johnson is good at any of those things.... or anywhere close to Cole in them.
- Cole was a better shot blocker (especially in the playoffs where it mattered most)
- Cole is/was a better hitter. Johnson randomly lays guys out in the middle of the ice for a zero-impact result.
- Johnson is NOT a good Pker. If anything he's 'okay' in the same way Hainsey was. However, he can't clear the crease nor create space for Murray which is usually his only job since his skating ability is that of an overweight high school player.
Okay, so what basis do you have to support any of this? Because you just seem to be saying that this is true because you say it's true. Statistically, you're not right. Why is Cole a better shot blocker than Johnson? Why is Cole a better hitter? Why is Johnson not a good PKer? Actually provide some support points instead of just making claims. There are stats that prove things like PKing ability (PK relative xGA, for example). You can come up with videos that could support Cole being a better shot blocker or hitter. But you're not doing anything of that.
I hate discussing JJ on here because a lot of the people who insists he sucks refuse to put any effort behind the claim. The stats behind the argument for Johnson sucking are really, really easy to find, I promise you of that. It's just annoying that I go through the effort of actually looking at stats to make an argument, and the reply I get is "lol you're wrong, Johnson sucks". It's a slap in the face of anyone who actually takes time to add something of value to the discussion. I honestly take offense to replies like that.
Blocking shots en route to a cup - regularly - are better than having a shot hit your leg mid season. He's better because he not only led the NHL (by a LARGE margin, at least for one of the seasons he was here), but because he regularly suppressed shots that really mattered.
He's a better hitter because he is - I'm not sure where the argument is? Do you watch the team or research numbers? Is Guentzel a better hitter than both of them because he led the Pens in hits? Or is Cole better because he takes Ryan to the boards in a big moment in the playoffs? There's not a single hit Johnson has had in his first season that made one iota of difference to the Penguins momentum... Cole had them regularly.
I didn't say Johnson sucked blankly... I said he's not in the same realm as Cole - both of them got term and money, and one player is CLEARLY better than the other. You bring up close statistics to try and defend your man, yet if both players came up on the block - one would A) Get interest from most teams in the NHL, and B) Get dealt quickly. The other would have a hard time finding a home among a scrap pile with a label of "Free" on it.
Okay, so Cole is a better shot blocker becuase the Penguins won cups when Cole was on the team? That's basically what this argument boils down to.
Okay, if this is true, you should be able to provide some supporting points for this. Instead of just saying this is the case, actually provide something. Again, literally anything.
Okay, so Cole is a better PKer than Johnson because teams would want Cole more quickly than Johnson? Or is Cole a better PKer because you say so?
I'm honestly just going to stop trying with actually coming up with arguments on this site. Outside of a few cases, I never get as much effort back in reply to me as I put into my posts, so I'm not going to bother anymore. Like I'm genuinely insulted when I put effort into a post only to get this kind of reply back, so I'm just not going to bother anymore.
Jake Sid McCann
Chucky Geno Rust
Kahun Bjug Horns
Tanev TB Simon
First call-ups: AJ (F) Ruh (D) Jarry (G).
With Pets on a short deal, say what you will but our depth is really good next year especially for Sully who wants to role 4 lines ect... Not bad all things considered... I guess our off season of worry was for nothing lol
Let’s also stop pretending he is “easily tradeable” while we are at it.
I'm ok with that. If not now, he will get his long term contract when GMJR can complete a trade during the season or next off season
the bad contracts though he gives out every summer need to stop!
I think the impression that Cole has been better than JJ, at least among this group, is impacted by the fact that Cole helped the Pens to two cups while JJ helped the Pens to an embarrassing early playoff exit. Plus Cole has been a +48 since 2014 while JJ has been a -16. It's hard to ignore things like giving up goals and winning.
I'm cool with that. Thanks MP for doing us a solid.
Not really a solid. He easily could make 5-10 more million dollars this way.
Gotta wait and see how he does. If he plays like he did last season you don't move him.
Eh, if the option is keeping both or moving Gudbranson, I'd much rather move Gudbranson. You need to move one of those guys, so even if Gudbranson is good and Johnson is bad, you can't keep Gudbranson if you also can't move Johnson.
I mean that's valid, but I just take issue responding to a statistics based argument with "no, you're wrong because I say so". There are some arguments you can make, you can bring up stats or videos to support your claim. It's just infuriating to not get those in reply to an argument where you do supply those things.
I feel like it's better for both him and the Penguins. The Penguins get a year of him on a cheap deal, which gives them a better chance at winning this year, and Pettersson increases his long-term deal to around what Dumoulin is making. I see that as a win for both sides.
I doubt we see that. Given who needs contracts next summer, I suspect that JJ's spot is going to get filled internally unless we can land another young cheap blueliner to replace him.
Also, for what it's worth:
Kingerski is saying that a deal won't be finalized without another move, so the Penguins may actually be making a cap move in the next day or so.
Of course you can. Pair MP with Guds and JJ with Schultz, then limit JJ's TOI like they did in the POs down to where he's playing under 15min a game.
There's no comparison. JJ is an AHL level D-man. Cole was never that for us.
IMO Cole was our best d-man in the first 2 series in the 2017 run. He helped us advance. Especially against Columbus. In fact he was stellar that whole regular season too. Cole-Schultz combo was dynamite, especially considering Letang going down and their increased responsibilities.
That's just something JJ isn't capable of doing. I don't hate the guy but if he got replaced by Riikola, Prow or Ruhwedel then I'd like our chances of winning games more. Hell, Addison probably could outplay him too.
So they'll keep the same defense that wasn't good enough last year and block young guys down the line? Just because you refuse to trade Gudbranson if he's serviceable for the Penguins?
This also doesn't touch on the cap implication of paying those two $7.25 million combined, when the Penguins are due some big raises for some of their players next year. You can survive with both for this season, but you have to move one of them after this year.
In a different tweet he mention trade or waivers so its probably just sending down Trotman + Riikola/Ruh
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