Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Marc my words, they'll get him signed

Status
Not open for further replies.

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
6,520
Yukon
I'd give up term if it meant a lower cap hit. Maybe 4 years/$16M?

I doubt he'd sign that either - but at least you're getting closer with that. Just an FYI, Gardiner signed that because of how leery GMs were of his back issues.

I mean his numbers have been dropping ever since the 2016-2017 season. I wouldn't expect a raise if I were him. Even a slight pay cut seems reasonable imo.

I wouldn't call a 27% cut a "slight pay cut". Schultz is going to get paid for 2 reasons. 1) 2x Cup champion, 2) Because he's a quality RD. The fact his production has been going down since his career season won't matter at all.
 

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,665
32,784
I'm not concerned about term with Schultz. He will still be good for the remainder of Sid/Geno's years and as long as cap hit is reasonable, he can be traded when needed. That doesn't mean I give him stupid term, but I prioritize the best team in the next 3 years. If we can find a Schultz replacement that makes more sense for cheaper, go for it, but Guds is not the answer IMO.

You do know that JR’s been giving out NTCs like crazy...he’ll have at least the ten team NTC he has now and it might be more important to him than salary that he has a full NMC if he’s really serious that he just wants to be in Pgh...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shady Machine

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,421
25,284
First off all things are possible through Geno. Jot that down.

He also wasn't dealing with a massive anchor skating behind him nearly every single game, things hadn't come fully to a head with Kessel and Sullivan, he was in a better place mentally, etc.

I'm not saying Malkin and Schultz don't play well together, they do. I'm honestly not even too sure how Malkin got involved in all this. I'm simply saying this team would benefit huge from another Daley-esque defenseman. I find it hard to believe that I'm all alone in seeing how much smoother the entire team operated with him doing his thing out there.

Last year wasn't the only year Geno had in Sully's system though. Hell, 17-18 was his best year since the lockout. Why did it happen then if Geno was playing without a part that's so crucial? Why didn't it come when the crucial part was there?

Why I'm asking these questions is because you're far from the only person who's high on how much a skater like Daley helped the blue line and I think this line of opinion is beginning to overstate what Daley did and understate what Schultz does. Your post about Geno knowing how crucial a guy like Daley is seemed a prime example so I used that as a jumping off point.

For me, based on how he actually played here and how often he was available and some of the results we've had since, I don't see how a Daley can be said to be crucial. He won the last two series in 15-16 without him and we did great in 16-17 regular season when he was a definite drag on the team and once we got over the Cup fatigue in 17-18, we were a great team without him.

Don't get me wrong, that sort of skating dman would be a great benefit, but the benefit is imo getting overstated. Apologies if I've read the word crucial as being a stronger endorsement than you meant.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,033
74,282
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Last year wasn't the only year Geno had in Sully's system though. Hell, 17-18 was his best year since the lockout. Why did it happen then if Geno was playing without a part that's so crucial? Why didn't it come when the crucial part was there?

Why I'm asking these questions is because you're far from the only person who's high on how much a skater like Daley helped the blue line and I think this line of opinion is beginning to overstate what Daley did and understate what Schultz does. Your post about Geno knowing how crucial a guy like Daley is seemed a prime example so I used that as a jumping off point.

For me, based on how he actually played here and how often he was available and some of the results we've had since, I don't see how a Daley can be said to be crucial. He won the last two series in 15-16 without him and we did great in 16-17 regular season when he was a definite drag on the team and once we got over the Cup fatigue in 17-18, we were a great team without him.

Don't get me wrong, that sort of skating dman would be a great benefit, but the benefit is imo getting overstated. Apologies if I've read the word crucial as being a stronger endorsement than you meant.

100% on board with this. JJ definitely had an impact, but just pretending JJ was totally at fault for Malkin and Kessel’s fall off is looking at data and wanting it to say something rather than looking at what the data is telling us.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,249
79,226
Redmond, WA
100% on board with this. JJ definitely had an impact, but just pretending JJ was totally at fault for Malkin and Kessel’s fall off is looking at data and wanting it to say something rather than looking at what the data is telling us.

To be honest, the argument I had with SB in the other thread made me think Johnson overall didn't have a huge impact on Malkin's line, based on the data I was looking at. I actually feel like Schultz was the guy that caused the bad stats for Johnson with Malkin and Kessel. Johnson hurt Crosby's line (taking Crosby from elite to team average) and really hurt the bottom-6 (really hurt all of Cullen, Brassard and Bjugstad, actually helped Blueger), but I don't think Johnson actually had much of a statistical impact on Malkin's line.

I'm basing this claim on mostly xGF% without Johnson, if anyone wants to double check that.
 

Pens1566

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
18,406
7,246
WV
Wait what? There's no way Schultz can ask for that kind of money, well unless he puts up 50+ pts this season. Gardiner just signed for 4x4. I think that's a good comparable for Schultz.

Gardiner apparently has some lingering back issues which brought his price down.

And Tyler Myers just got $6M/yr in FA. Schultz would be north of that.
 

AjaxTelamon

Registered User
Jul 8, 2011
6,070
1,825
Because 50 point dmen make more than 5.5MM when they are UFA's and if you factor in his ES only production, while it has declined, it rebounded a bit last year, even in small sample size. Plus, his decline in points is perfectly explainable given Schultz didn't have as much PP time the last 2 years with a healthier Letang.

Schultz needs a bounce back for sure, but I suspect he will put up 40 this year and that will mean at least his current caphit if the Pens want to keep him. I guarantee someone will offer him 6MM on a long term deal unless he is mediocre this year.

Yeah someone certainly would if he played even decently well. Considering the term we've been handing out to JJ and Tanev, Schultz is a situation that it probably makes sense to go for a very long term deal to get the cap hit down to the sub 6M level. It will be very hard for us to fit him even at 6M, and with Rust and Galchenyuk presumed gone. I'm just not seeing how we replace Schultz in the next few years though.

On the up side for 2020-21, a JJ buyout actually becomes fairly reasonable next summer, if we're somehow stuck with him through this season.
 

Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
22,163
25,605
Gardiner apparently has some lingering back issues which brought his price down.

And Tyler Myers just got $6M/yr in FA. Schultz would be north of that.

Schultz doesn’t have the size. If he doesn’t have a good season again I don’t think the market is gonna be crazy for him.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,279
28,250
Last year wasn't the only year Geno had in Sully's system though. Hell, 17-18 was his best year since the lockout. Why did it happen then if Geno was playing without a part that's so crucial? Why didn't it come when the crucial part was there?

Why does Geno work with anything that shouldn't always work? He's a really, really good player. When he's on and clicking he can literally do it all himself. Like... do I think Geno could have overcome and still had a great season last year even with JJ behind him? Yeah. But there were other factors including himself. Don't mistake me for one of these people that lays the whole team's problems at one guy's feet.

Why I'm asking these questions is because you're far from the only person who's high on how much a skater like Daley helped the blue line and I think this line of opinion is beginning to overstate what Daley did and understate what Schultz does. Your post about Geno knowing how crucial a guy like Daley is seemed a prime example so I used that as a jumping off point.

People overstate a lot of things on this team, I get that. I don't think that pointing out the obvious about what would give this blueline a crucial shot in the arm is really one of them.

Ha... I'm a little confused how this has gotten so twisted. I'm not even saying anything particularly controversial or talking down on anyone. If I implied that this was like... some sort of "woe is Geno" post I apologize for the confusion.

EDIT: Is it because I made a Geno/Ruh crack?
 
Last edited:

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,421
25,284
Why does Geno work with anything that shouldn't always work? He's a really, really good player. When he's on and clicking he can literally do it all himself. Like... do I think Geno could have overcome and still had a great season last year even with JJ behind him? Yeah. But there were other factors including himself. Don't mistake me for one of these people that lays the whole team's problems at one guy's feet.



People overstate a lot of things on this team, I get that. I don't think that pointing out the obvious about what would give this blueline a crucial shot in the arm is really one of them.

Ha... I'm a little confused how this has gotten so twisted. I'm not even saying anything particularly controversial or talking down on anyone. If I implied that this was like... some sort of "woe is Geno" post I apologize for the confusion.

EDIT: Is it because I made a Geno/Ruh crack?

If you said anything about Ruh in that post I first quoted, I missed it. In any case, I am also confused and think I'll leave it there :laugh:
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,279
28,250
If you said anything about Ruh in that post I first quoted, I missed it. In any case, I am also confused and think I'll leave it there :laugh:

Ha! Yeah... that's what I meant by the whole "the team could really use a puck-skating defenseman... ask Geno" thing.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,033
74,282
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,665
32,784
Yes. It is.

Anyone expecting otherwise is a clown and hasn’t followed this team that has employed the likes of Glass, Adams, Scuderi and even Orpik far past their useful date.

I fully expect the Pens to start the season as is...but since JR is an active trader and we need cap space, I expect him to trade at least one of JJ or Guds by the TDL, with an outside chance of Schultz....even JR can’t be dumb enough to know that the Pens can’t spend that kind of cap space on a third D pair...

Edit...this is what we’ll be asking every week....and yes, he’s as dumb as he seems...

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: pixiesfanyo

Pens1566

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
18,406
7,246
WV
Schultz doesn’t have the size. If he doesn’t have a good season again I don’t think the market is gonna be crazy for him.

Oleksiak has size ...

Myers is kind of a train wreck, which was my point. So much so that the Jets decided it was better to go into the season with a bottom pairing of Popcorn guy and head usher instead of re-signing Myers. Schultz, if he has a somewhat non-catastrophic season, will by all means get more than Myers on open market.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Louis Hensler

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
6,520
Yukon
Maybe if the cap doesn't go up. If it goes up and Schultz is healthy, he gets more. While I wouldn't make TOO much about the back injury, Gardiner himself felt it impacted demand for him. If Schultz is healthy and puts up 40+, he's getting 6MM+ IMO. That is, unless he REALLY wants to stay and will take more term for less caphit (which is possible).

I don't even think he'd need to put up 40 to get that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shady Machine

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
6,520
Yukon
We will see how that actually goes.

Honestly, I don’t mind resigning Schultz, but I’m not in love with him.
That being said, having Letang and Schultz ahead of Addison in a couple years is probably great players to fashion his game off of.

Given the market next year, I’d be very interested in letting Schultz walk.

1) I get it. But that doesn't change the fact that we need him - or someone like him.
2) I wouldn't be so sure about that... Schultz likely costs 6m or less. Most of the other guys we've talked about (or dream about) are going to cost significantly more than that.

Was he a UFA last time? Can't recall for sure. Either way, it was a different situation. He went from being a disaster to stable, to 1 great year. He didn't have a ton of leverage for a high cap hit long term and I think he wanted a shorter term to bet on himself. We will see.

He was a 26 yr old RFA who had just come off a 1.4m contract and a 51pt season.
 
Last edited:

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
92,033
74,282
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
1) I get it. But that doesn't change the fact that we need him - or someone like him.
2) I wouldn't be so sure about that... Schultz likely costs 6m or less. Most of the other guys we've talked about (or dream about) are going to cost significantly more than that.

To a degree. But, most of those guys are better skaters despite not being more complete players (I.e. Vatanen) and as we saw with Daley and Cole we can win with skating versus positional / IQ play. Hell, I’ll even lump Lovejoy into that group despite him being headier and my personal distaste towards him. The way he looked Pouliot look was amazing.
 

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,665
32,784
Petts gets done tomorrow one way or another right?

I don’t think so...I thought someone said he could get a visa to participate in camp...so it depends on how long his current visa lasts...I expect JR to wait as long as possible before the start of the RS to sign him, given that everyone’s preference is for a trade and long term deal...why hurry when you never know if a trade could materialize after some RFAs sign...might be closer to Oct 1 before he signs
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad