Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Marc my words, they'll get him signed

[wej20]

I mean his numbers have been dropping ever since the 2016-2017 season. I wouldn't expect a raise if I were him. Even a slight pay cut seems reasonable imo.

I imagine he'll have to take a small paycut (depending what the cap does) but he'll be looking for 4 years. If he can get back to 50 points he'll probably have a decent number of suitors next summer.

 

[Shady Machine]

The problem with re-signing Schultz isn't the money, it's the term. I'd 100% rather have Gudbranson for only a year or two at $4 million on the 2nd pair over Schultz at 6+ years at $6.5 million.



Marino really isn't that comparable to Dumoulin, Marino is more comparable to Niskanen from what I've seen. And I also disagree that Schultz transitions the puck a lot bette rthan Dumoulin does.

I'm not concerned about term with Schultz. He will still be good for the remainder of Sid/Geno's years and as long as cap hit is reasonable, he can be traded when needed. That doesn't mean I give him stupid term, but I prioritize the best team in the next 3 years. If we can find a Schultz replacement that makes more sense for cheaper, go for it, but Guds is not the answer IMO.

 

[Riptide]

Marino really isn't that comparable to Dumoulin, Marino is more comparable to Niskanen from what I've seen. And I also disagree that Schultz transitions the puck a lot bette rthan Dumoulin does.

Niskanen was a very productive NCAA player with 10g/45pts in his 2 NCAA seasons. Marino doesn't even have that after 3 seasons, and his best season was half of what Nisky did points wise, and 1/3rd goal wise. So while it's possible that Marino develop's along those lines, I think that too is probably unlikely.

And if you think Dumouilin transitions the puck up the ice better than Schultz, then I dunno what to say - other than that I do not see myself wasting anymore time arguing about it with you.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

I imagine he'll have to take a small paycut (depending what the cap does) but he'll be looking for 4 years. If he can get back to 50 points he'll probably have a decent number of suitors next summer.

I'd be more than happy to sign him to a 4 year/$16M contract if that term gets it done.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'd be more than happy to sign him to a 4 year/$16M contract if that term gets it done.

No way Schultz is getting a lower cap hit. Just totally unrealistic. The Cole's of the world are getting 4MM with term. Schultz is getting at least 6MM per with term.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Schultz for 4M for 4 years would be a miracle and the team would be stupid not to ink that contract when frikkin' JJ is making less than a million more than that for a year more in term.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

I'd 100% rather have Gudbranson for only a year or two at $4 million on the 2nd pair over Schultz at 6+ years at $6.5 million.

Wait what? There's no way Schultz can ask for that kind of money, well unless he puts up 50+ pts this season. Gardiner just signed for 4x4. I think that's a good comparable for Schultz.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

No way Schultz is getting a lower cap hit. Just totally unrealistic. The Cole's of the world are getting 4MM with term. Schultz is getting at least 6MM per with term.

Why not? He hasn't put up close to 50 pts for two years now.

Schultz for 4M for 4 years would be a miracle and the team would be stupid not to ink that contract when frikkin' JJ is making less than a million more than that for a year more in term.

I get what you're saying, but Johnson has an awful contract.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bringing up Gardiner is a good comparable, not because of the contract he signed but because of the contract he was offered. The Habs offered him a 3 year, $5.25 million deal at the start of free agency, but he was holding out to try to get more. I think you might be able to get Schultz at a contract like that, possibly even getting him to sign the same contract he signed 2 years ago. But less than that? No way.

I think getting Schultz for another 3 year, $5.5 million AAV deal would be a good contract that I'd definitely re-sign him for. I'm just concerned that he'll be shooting for a Faulk type of contract, and based on his past history, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to be generous towards the team.

 

[Peat]

Eh... I'm not trying to totally dismiss Schultz and what he is capable of. He is a very, very good offensive defenseman... when posession in the offensive zone is already established. He is not, unless I'm missing quite a lot in the last few years, a super effective puck mover. And with respect... I don't think that is an overrated aspect at all. At least to this team.

They need at least another guy who can skate with the puck without instinctively tossing a prayer up the ice after touching the puck for half a second. They have one guy on the whole backend who can do that with any consistency (skate WITH the puck) and that's just not enough.

People go on and on about the "forwards needing to get back and help." But if you do that you go a long way toward neutering a fast transition. And part of that fast transition involves, you guessed it... defensemen who can make a play in their own end and skate the puck.

If it is not overrated, and if Daley's loss was huge and Schultz not that good at it, how comes Geno had his best season in Sully's system when Daley was gone and Schultz his main dman?

Because to me that theory and that result seem incompatible.

 

[Shady Machine]

Why not? He hasn't put up close to 50 pts for two years now.

Because 50 point dmen make more than 5.5MM when they are UFA's and if you factor in his ES only production, while it has declined, it rebounded a bit last year, even in small sample size. Plus, his decline in points is perfectly explainable given Schultz didn't have as much PP time the last 2 years with a healthier Letang.

Schultz needs a bounce back for sure, but I suspect he will put up 40 this year and that will mean at least his current caphit if the Pens want to keep him. I guarantee someone will offer him 6MM on a long term deal unless he is mediocre this year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's comforting to know Schultz considers Pittsburgh his forever home or whatever. But I think what he has in mind as a discount is along the lines of 6M for 3 or 4 years. Maybe his current rate, if the team is lucky and he really means it.

 

[Shady Machine]

Bringing up Gardiner is a good comparable, not because of the contract he signed but because of the contract he was offered. The Habs offered him a 3 year, $5.25 million deal at the start of free agency, but he was holding out to try to get more. I think you might be able to get Schultz at a contract like that, possibly even getting him to sign the same contract he signed 2 years ago. But less than that? No way.

Maybe if the cap doesn't go up. If it goes up and Schultz is healthy, he gets more. While I wouldn't make TOO much about the back injury, Gardiner himself felt it impacted demand for him. If Schultz is healthy and puts up 40+, he's getting 6MM+ IMO. That is, unless he REALLY wants to stay and will take more term for less caphit (which is possible).

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

Because 50 point dmen make more than 5.5MM when they are UFA's and if you factor in his ES only production, while it has declined, it rebounded a bit last year, even in small sample size. Plus, his decline in points is perfectly explainable given Schultz didn't have as much PP time the last 2 years with a healthier Letang.

Schultz needs a bounce back for sure, but I suspect he will put up 40 this year and that will mean at least his current caphit if the Pens want to keep him. I guarantee someone will offer him 6MM on a long term deal unless he is mediocre this year.

And I have no problem paying him if he does. But as it stands now, he shouldn't get more than 4-4.5M.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because 50 point dmen make more than 5.5MM when they are UFA's and if you factor in his ES only production, while it has declined, it rebounded a bit last year, even in small sample size. Plus, his decline in points is perfectly explainable given Schultz didn't have as much PP time the last 2 years with a healthier Letang.

Schultz needs a bounce back for sure, but I suspect he will put up 40 this year and that will mean at least his current caphit if the Pens want to keep him. I guarantee someone will offer him 6MM on a long term deal unless he is mediocre this year.

Depends on what Schultz wants to do. He knows what playing on a terrible franchise is like.

Don’t think it is probable he takes the same deal, but also would not be surprised.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe if the cap doesn't go up. If it goes up and Schultz is healthy, he gets more. While I wouldn't make TOO much about the back injury, Gardiner himself felt it impacted demand for him. If Schultz is healthy and puts up 40+, he's getting 6MM+ IMO. That is, unless he REALLY wants to stay and will take more term for less caphit (which is possible).

He didn't do that last time after having a great 2016-2017, so I don't expect him to do that this time either. I think it depends on how teams view Schultz. Gardiner was offered that contract right at the start of free agency, so I think that was his peak contract. But who do teams view Schultz to be closer to, Gardiner or Faulk? Friedman has been talking in the $6.5-$7 million range for Faulk, so that's probably near where Schultz would be at if he's viewed at that level. I'm just not sure he is.

 

[molon labe]

Bringing up Gardiner is a good comparable, not because of the contract he signed but because of the contract he was offered. The Habs offered him a 3 year, $5.25 million deal at the start of free agency, but he was holding out to try to get more. I think you might be able to get Schultz at a contract like that, possibly even getting him to sign the same contract he signed 2 years ago. But less than that? No way.

I think getting Schultz for another 3 year, $5.5 million AAV deal would be a good contract that I'd definitely re-sign him for. I'm just concerned that he'll be shooting for a Faulk type of contract, and based on his past history, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to be generous towards the team.

Bolded was addressed specifically in the Yohe piece today.

Schultz flat out says he wants to remain in Pittsburgh - that he recognizes what the organization has done for him and his career - that he loves it here - and most importantly, that he is absolutely not trying to get into a big free agent spin.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bolded was addressed specifically in the Yohe piece today.

Schultz flat out says he wants to remain in Pittsburgh - that he recognizes what the organization has done for him and his career - that he loves it here - and most importantly, that he is absolutely not trying to get into a big free agent spin.

I recall him saying the same thing in 2017, only to get a short term deal at a UFA's salary as a RFA. I'll believe it when I see it, actions speak louder than words and he has never been the kind of guy to take less money in his career.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bolded was addressed specifically in the Yohe piece today.

Schultz flat out says he wants to remain in Pittsburgh - that he recognizes what the organization has done for him and his career - that he loves it here - and most importantly, that he is absolutely not trying to get into a big free agent spin.

We will see how that actually goes.

Honestly, I don’t mind resigning Schultz, but I’m not in love with him. That being said, having Letang and Schultz ahead of Addison in a couple years is probably great players to fashion his game off of.

Given the market next year, I’d be very interested in letting Schultz walk.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If it is not overrated, and if Daley's loss was huge and Schultz not that good at it, how comes Geno had his best season in Sully's system when Daley was gone and Schultz his main dman?

Because to me that theory and that result seem incompatible.

First off all things are possible through Geno. Jot that down.

He also wasn't dealing with a massive anchor skating behind him nearly every single game, things hadn't come fully to a head with Kessel and Sullivan, he was in a better place mentally, etc.

I'm not saying Malkin and Schultz don't play well together, they do. I'm honestly not even too sure how Malkin got involved in all this. I'm simply saying this team would benefit huge from another Daley-esque defenseman. I find it hard to believe that I'm all alone in seeing how much smoother the entire team operated with him doing his thing out there.

 

[molon labe]

I recall him saying the same thing in 2017, only to get a short term deal at a UFA's salary as a RFA. I'll believe it when I see it, actions speak louder than words and he has never been the kind of guy to take less money in his career.

True.

All things considered - I trust the word of a 29/30 year old more than that of a 26 year old most times over. Not quite the same as a young RFA saying that they want to be somewhere long-term...those situations are obvious parroting and full of crap.

 

[Shady Machine]

He didn't do that last time after having a great 2016-2017, so I don't expect him to do that this time either. I think it depends on how teams view Schultz. Gardiner was offered that contract right at the start of free agency, so I think that was his peak contract. But who do teams view Schultz to be closer to, Gardiner or Faulk? Friedman has been talking in the $6.5-$7 million range for Faulk, so that's probably near where Schultz would be at if he's viewed at that level. I'm just not sure he is.

Was he a UFA last time? Can't recall for sure. Either way, it was a different situation. He went from being a disaster to stable, to 1 great year. He didn't have a ton of leverage for a high cap hit long term and I think he wanted a shorter term to bet on himself. We will see.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like I should also throw this out, I feel like Malkin's a guy that generally doesn't get impacted much by the ability of his linemates. He's at his best when he has linemates who let him dominate possession of the puck. Sure, you want to give him good linemates to get him the puck and to prevent him from getting extremely frustrated, but I don't think whether Malkin plays with Hagelin and Kessel or if Malkin plays with Fedotenko and Talbot really matters. What matters is whether Malkin is on, if he's on, he'll dominate games and he'll carry 2 4th liners into a legit scoring line.

 

[Rakell67]

Bringing up Gardiner is a good comparable, not because of the contract he signed but because of the contract he was offered. The Habs offered him a 3 year, $5.25 million deal at the start of free agency, but he was holding out to try to get more. I think you might be able to get Schultz at a contract like that, possibly even getting him to sign the same contract he signed 2 years ago. But less than that? No way.

I think getting Schultz for another 3 year, $5.5 million AAV deal would be a good contract that I'd definitely re-sign him for. I'm just concerned that he'll be shooting for a Faulk type of contract, and based on his past history, I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to be generous towards the team.

You just know if Schultz does hit UFA the Caps will throw big money at him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Was he a UFA last time? Can't recall for sure. Either way, it was a different situation. He went from being a disaster to stable, to 1 great year. He didn't have a ton of leverage for a high cap hit long term and I think he wanted a shorter term to bet on himself. We will see.

He was a RFA with 1 year until UFA. I think it was reasonable to get the short term, but he got basically the same AAV he would have gotten as a UFA. That doesn't seem like a guy that will take a paycut to me. I think you're probably right about his next contract starting with a $6, I could see the Penguins giving him a 3 or 4 year deal at $6 million.

Actually, considering we're talking about JR here, I think $6.75 million for 6 years is a good guess for Schultz. I don't even know if I should add the sarcasm emoji because I can't tell if I'm joking or not.