Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Marc my words, they'll get him signed

[Randy Butternubs]

It's so nice to be talking about something else cap-wise.

 

[ColePens]

Just a reminder - we do have our awesome Training Camp thread open! This thread will start to focus solely on salary cap/trades/etc. Actual camp or hockey related discussion should go to the Training Camp thread.

 

[Louis Hensler]

The unfortunate part is I don't know who is out there that we could realisitally acquire that would fill that hole.

I think to stay within the cap, Daley will have to be replaced organically from within. Fortunately, help appears to be on the way. Unfortunately, the window may be closed by the time it gets here.

 

[Riptide]

I have a questions about Pettersson. Is he able to attend training camp without a signed contract? He's reportedly skating with the team now, but is he able to continue without a deal?

Training camp doesn't start until the 13th. However I think we'll see something signed before then.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A) Dumoulin didn't "immediately jump into the NHL". He played 19 games the 2 previous seasons (where other than the POs he largely looked out of place) and spent 3 years in the AHL after coming out of college. He wasn't an impact player (15/16) until his 7th season post draft.

Come on Rip, that's just nitpicking. The point was that Dumoulin jumped into the NHL with very little NHL experience and was extremely effective.

B) Marino other than being an RD will likely never be able to replace what Schultz does. And not signing JS because of Marino just screams setting him and the team up for failure. Especially for a team that's desperate for PMD who can transition the puck.

Okay? He doesn't have to be what Schultz was. Schultz isn't a PMD who can transition the puck either, so I don't know why you're bringing that up.

Yeah but that's a pretty big difference. I'm still shocked to this day that Chicago sent him packing for ****ing Scuderi. He wasn't really working out there but my god.

The rest is pretty even but a guy like Daley really goes so, so far in making a system like Sullivan's tick. A defenseman who can skate the puck out of danger and eat up the NZ is so crucial. Hell... just ask Geno! Ha.

Let's say Johnson gets the boot and Riikola plays a full season at a solid level on the bottom pair. Would that change your stance at all?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Let's say Johnson gets the boot and Riikola plays a full season at a solid level on the bottom pair. Would that change your stance at all?

I know when it comes to JJ I sometimes sound like a broken record. I know people grow tired of hearing it. I know it starts to sound like a convenient excuse. I know that the further away we get from last season (and people will learn again soon enough) that it becomes easier to forget or handwave away how utterly and ridiculously incompetent, stupid, and completely destructive to any line he skated behind he really, really was.

But yes... literally ANY scenario that involves Jack Johnson being somewhere else so that he is a zero percent risk of being played on this roster in any capacity immediately sunnies my disposition and makes me markedly more enthusiastic for any lineup posited.

At this point if people (not you) don't understand the concept of "addition by subtraction" I just don't know what to tell them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know when it comes to JJ I sometimes sound like a broken record. I know people grow tired of hearing it. I know it starts to sound like a convenient excuse. I know that the further away we get from last season (and people will learn again soon enough) that it becomes easier to forget or handwave away how utterly and ridiculously incompetent, stupid, and completely destructive to any line he skated behind he really, really was.

But yes... literally ANY scenario that involves Jack Johnson being somewhere else so that he is literally a zero percent risk of being played in this roster in any capacity immediately sunnies my disposition and makes me markedly more enthusiastic for any lineup posited.

I can understand that, but my question was more so specifically about that defense. That comment was mostly due to Riikola being really good at skating the puck and being a pretty good puck mover, so this defense:

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Gudbranson
Riikola-Marino

Solves the problem of not having that Daley type of guy. Riikola may not be as good as Daley, but he does bring similar strengths. In this specific scenario (Gudbranson has a solid year this year, Riikola plays as an everyday bottom pair guy and Marino has a good year in the AHL and a cup of coffee in the NHL), would that defense be really much worse than what they had in 2016? It would definitely be more unproven, but worse?

I'm super high on MP, to the point where I think he'll be better than Dumoulin by this time next year, so that may be an influencing factor here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh no... I know exactly what you are saying. I still don't think that defense is quite as good as 16 but I'm all about trying out different options like Riikola in a more expanded role (and actually allowing him some growing pains), A guy like Marino getting a good long look unless he's a total disaster (he won't be) and even if I don't have the same belief in him you and others do, trying out Gud on that second pair with a hopefully-even-better-this-year MP. And shooting JJ into the Sun allows all of those things to happen without Sullivan getting itchy and putting him back into the lineup because of "veteran experience" or whatever. And yes... even Sullivan is prone to this. All coaches are.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'm thinking Marino, POJ, and Addison will have to marinate in the AHL for at least two seasons. Re-signing Schultz will depend on how he and Gudbranson perform this season.

 

[Shady Machine]

If he's willing to extend for what he's making now or less and doesn't suck this year, I'm all for it. However, I'm expecting him to want $6.5-$7 million a year, and I'd genuinely rather have Gudbranson on the 2nd pair over paying him that much.

With how good Marino looked and with Addison poised for a big season in the WHL, I'm not exactly super interested in signing Schultz long term.

Let me get this right. You'd rather have Gudbranson at $4MM on the second pair vs Schultz at $6.5MM? Maybe we can just dump JJ and Guds to give money to Schultz and have the kids fill in on the 3rd pair.

 

[Riptide]

Okay? He doesn't have to be what Schultz was. Schultz isn't a PMD who can transition the puck either, so I don't know why you're bringing that up.

He transitions the puck a lot better than Dumoulin does... and that's Marino's realistic ceiling.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Schultz was told that he could name his price next summer, to which he replied " But I don't want that. I really dont. Im right where I want too be."

 

[Peat]

Let me get this right. You'd rather have Gudbranson at $4MM on the second pair vs Schultz at $6.5MM? Maybe we can just dump JJ and Guds to give money to Schultz and have the kids fill in on the 3rd pair.

That'd be a pretty live question in my mind if the two play like they did at the end of last season, but I think that's pretty unlikely. Not ruling it out, but not seeing it as the preferred option myself just yet.

That extra 2.5m could be vital when dealing with all the new contracts next season though.

Yeah but that's a pretty big difference. I'm still shocked to this day that Chicago sent him packing for ****ing Scuderi. He wasn't really working out there but my god.

The rest is pretty even but a guy like Daley really goes so, so far in making a system like Sullivan's tick. A defenseman who can skate the puck out of danger and eat up the NZ is so crucial. Hell... just ask Geno! Ha.

The same Geno who had his best season in forever when mainly in front of Schultz and with Daley nowhere to be seen (and Letang a step beneath himself)?

I'd really love to get some better transition players in defence, but I think it might be getting a bit overrated, particularly if talking about Schultz's weaknesses when he's dovetailed so well with Geno.

 

[molon labe]

Live Q&A w/Rossi

User: "Odds in your opinion that Malkin does indeed sign for three more years..."

RR: "Very strong. He offered that without me asking directly... He has told me repeatedly he only wants to play for the Pens..."

 

[Shady Machine]

That'd be a pretty live question in my mind if the two play like they did at the end of last season, but I think that's pretty unlikely. Not ruling it out, but not seeing it as the preferred option myself just yet.

That extra 2.5m could be vital when dealing with all the new contracts next season though.

Hey if Guds proves me wrong, great, but Schultz offense on the back end will be a huge loss, especially when (not if) Letang gets injured again. That's worth the money to me. It doesn't HAVE to be Schultz, by the way, but somebody better at offense than Pettersson or Dumoulin. Trade for someone if needed, but until a kid REALLY forces their hand and shows they are ready, unlikely by next year, you need another offensive Dman.

 

[Peat]

Hey if Guds proves me wrong, great, but Schultz offense on the back end will be a huge loss, especially when (not if) Letang gets injured again. That's worth the money to me. It doesn't HAVE to be Schultz, by the way, but somebody better at offense than Pettersson or Dumoulin. Trade for someone if needed, but until a kid REALLY forces their hand and shows they are ready, unlikely by next year, you need another offensive Dman.

Pretty fair. I'm almost certain we'll need a better offensive dman than Pettersson currently is on the team next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let me get this right. You'd rather have Gudbranson at $4MM on the second pair vs Schultz at $6.5MM? Maybe we can just dump JJ and Guds to give money to Schultz and have the kids fill in on the 3rd pair.

The problem with re-signing Schultz isn't the money, it's the term. I'd 100% rather have Gudbranson for only a year or two at $4 million on the 2nd pair over Schultz at 6+ years at $6.5 million.

He transitions the puck a lot better than Dumoulin does... and that's Marino's realistic ceiling.

Marino really isn't that comparable to Dumoulin, Marino is more comparable to Niskanen from what I've seen. And I also disagree that Schultz transitions the puck a lot bette rthan Dumoulin does.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm thinking Marino, POJ, and Addison will have to marinate in the AHL for at least two seasons. Re-signing Schultz will depend on how he and Gudbranson perform this season.

I think will rebound this season and to be honest, thats more important than where JJ plays (which to be clear is ideally outside of Pittsburgh).

I think Riikolas progression will be important too. Addison, POJ, and Marino will be Jr/AHL. That said Rudwedel may never be the solid bottom pair guy we need, so Riikola will need to prove his worth in order for us to look to move anyone. Really want to see what a Riikola-Gudbrason pairing looks like.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

Why is everyone so keen on moving Schultz? If anything I'd re-sign him to a 2 year/$8M deal, I think that's fair for both parties. We need more PMDs, not less.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why is everyone so keen on moving Schultz? If anything I'd re-sign him to a 2 year/$8M deal, I think that's fair for both parties. We need more PMDs, not less.

I flat out guarantee you he's not going to sign that contract.

 

[molon labe]

Why is everyone so keen on moving Schultz? If anything I'd re-sign him to a 2 year/$8M deal, I think that's fair for both parties. We need more PMDs, not less.

He'll be a 30 y/o UFA, RHD who's pedigree now includes 2 Cups...One of which he was a major player...

I don't see any way that either 2 years nor 4M gets it done. That being said - the Yohe piece has him quoted stating "He's right where he wants to be [Pittsburgh].."

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The same Geno who had his best season in forever when mainly in front of Schultz and with Daley nowhere to be seen (and Letang a step beneath himself)?

I'd really love to get some better transition players in defence, but I think it might be getting a bit overrated, particularly if talking about Schultz's weaknesses when he's dovetailed so well with Geno.

Eh... I'm not trying to totally dismiss Schultz and what he is capable of. He is a very, very good offensive defenseman... when posession in the offensive zone is already established. He is not, unless I'm missing quite a lot in the last few years, a super effective puck mover. And with respect... I don't think that is an overrated aspect at all. At least to this team.

They need at least another guy who can skate with the puck without instinctively tossing a prayer up the ice after touching the puck for half a second. They have one guy on the whole backend who can do that with any consistency (skate WITH the puck) and that's just not enough.

People go on and on about the "forwards needing to get back and help." But if you do that you go a long way toward neutering a fast transition. And part of that fast transition involves, you guessed it... defensemen who can make a play in their own end and skate the puck.

 

[Riptide]

Why is everyone so keen on moving Schultz? If anything I'd re-sign him to a 2 year/$8M deal, I think that's fair for both parties. We need more PMDs, not less.

I'm sure you would. I'm also 100% certain that he wouldn't. There's not a chance in hell he'd take both a cheap contract and no term. Maybe one or the other, but certainly not both - not as a 30 yr old UFA.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

I flat out guarantee you he's not going to sign that contract.

He'll be a 30 y/o UFA, RHD who's pedigree now includes 2 Cups...One of which he was a major player...

I don't see any way that either 2 years nor 4M gets it done. That being said - the Yohe piece has him quoted stating "He's right where he wants to be [Pittsburgh].."

I mean his numbers have been dropping ever since the 2016-2017 season. I wouldn't expect a raise if I were him. Even a slight pay cut seems reasonable imo.

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

I'm sure you would. I'm also 100% certain that he wouldn't. There's not a chance in hell he'd take both a cheap contract and no term. Maybe one or the other, but certainly not both - not as a 30 yr old UFA.

I'd give up term if it meant a lower cap hit. Maybe 4 years/$16M?