Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: JR's P.F Chang's bill finally coming due...

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HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
47,751
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Praha, CZ
Yeah, goalie is a position you try to fix via coaching and the blue line, for the time being. That said, if there’s a GM I’d trust to fix the goaltending situation, I guess it’s be Hextall?
 
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BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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It’s amazing people weren’t outraged after JR’s off season. Almost everyone downplayed the importance of the bottom six.

Well to be clear I DO think this fanbase makes a bit too much over their precious 3rd line though this aggravates me much more when the top six has multiple guys like Blake Comeau playing in it or whatever. But yeah I mean... I like rolling the dice on some bargain players who have a good chance of bouncing back... it's a low-risk investment that stands a better than average chance of paying off. It's just that they have a few too many projects and similar players. There isn't much specialization really on ANY of their lines but particularly in their bottom six. Everyone is just kinda... there. Jack of all trades master of none, etc.
 

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
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I’m not saying we’re great defensively but we are better than people are saying...it’s just that when we make a mistake, it’s usually a bad one...also we’re not particularly physical in front of our crease...but our #1 problem is goaltending as our new GM/PHOP just indicated...our last two games we were tied and our goalie gave up a bad goal an even average goalie would have had...we lost the last two games directly because of goaltending...every D and every team makes mistake and TOs...it’s just that way more mistakes we make end in our net than we get the puck into the opposing team’s net....we could go get Pastrnak to help us in that regard but we probably aren’t going to get him and it costs too much...so improving the goaltending is the best solution
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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May 31, 2004
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There’s no problem trying to fix the bottom six with bargain players, IMO but we should be starting to think about cutting bait once WB/S has a few more games under the belt.

Like Empo said a big impetus for their revival a few years back was an infusion of young legs that didn't know any better.

It would be nice to get back to that but I look at WB/S's roster and, well... I'm hardly filled with confidence. Another casualty of the JR era.

But at this point I'd very much consider it. I don't know that they could do much worse than some of these guys and perhaps it would fast-track some player development.
 

Pens x

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Oct 8, 2016
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Well to be clear I DO think this fanbase makes a bit too much over their precious 3rd line though this aggravates me much more when the top six has multiple guys like Blake Comeau playing in it or whatever. But yeah I mean... I like rolling the dice on some bargain players who have a good chance of bouncing back... it's a low-risk investment that stands a better than average chance of paying off. It's just that they have a few too many projects and similar players. There isn't much specialization really on ANY of their lines but particularly in their bottom six. Everyone is just kinda... there. Jack of all trades master of none, etc.
You’d think that mathematically speaking, they would have hit on someone just by chance, but that is not the case.

Now we are in the middle of a season desperately needing to revamp our bottom six with almost no assets. This is why it was infuriating this off-season; this was so predictable.

Good luck, Hextall.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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The Penguins aren't even that bad defensively, people just think they're bad defensively because Jarry gets scored on seemingly every dangerous chance he gets.

You'd forget about a lot of these high danger chances against if Jarry was stopping them. But because he keeps getting scored on, you remember these chances against. Jarry hasn't given up a ton of "bad" goals this year, but he's getting absolutely shredded on high danger chances and that's why people think the team is giving up a ton of those chances. They certainly haven't been good defensively, but they're probably closer to mediocre bordering on poor than as bad as some think.
 

Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
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When you are saying things like "it seems like every single breakdown is ending up in the back of our net!" you've already identified the problem.

Yea... goaltending. Jarry has blown massive chunks, especially those first couple games against Philly he looked like 2013 playoff MAF. It’s not like he’s sitting on a blah .901 or something. He’s dead last. Pens D has not been worse than Vancouver and Ottawa and Detroit.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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Yea... goaltending. Jarry has blown massive chunks, especially those first couple games against Philly he looked 2013 playoff MAF. It’s not like he’s sitting on a blah .901 or something. He’s dead last. Pens D has not been worse than Vancouver and Ottawa and Detroit.

I think their defense is about middle of the pack. Shit man the raw stats show it to be even better than that.

I think the people crowing about the defense are either the type that WANT them to be some watching-paint-dry snoozefest where they can play coach on here and at home and talk about gap control and other such exciting things or just really big Jarry fans. Or Murray haters. I dunno... don't want to generalize. But I don't think their defense is this massive glaring issue at least to be elevated above all their other massive glaring issues.

.857 save percentage.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Yeah, goalie is a position you try to fix via coaching and the blue line, for the time being. That said, if there’s a GM I’d trust to fix the goaltending situation, I guess it’s be Hextall?

A criticism that a lot of Flyers fans had with Hextall is how badly he handled their goaltending situation IIRC. Mason was legitimately great for them for about 4 years, but he had a down year in 2016-2017 and the Flyers let him walk because of it. They proceeded to fill his spot with Brian Elliott, who wasn't terrible but basically performed the exact same as Mason in a down year. He stuck with Elliott and went with Calvin Pickard ashis backup, who's definitely not a NHL goalie and sucked for the Flyers. He was then fired right before Hart made the jump to the NHL.

I don't think Hextall did a "bad" job with the Flyers goaltending overall, but it wasn't great. Mason was legitimately great for them for a long time, and letting Mason walk was ultimately the right decision in the long run. Elliott was okay for them, but you're not going to accomplish much with just okay goaltending most of the time. But at the same time, it's easier said than done to acquire a legitimate #1 goalie and the Flyers got at least fine results from both Elliott and Mason when Hextall was the GM.

If it wasn't obvious, I was a huge Steve Mason fan back in the day and really don't understand why he retired when he did or why he was bought out in 2018.
 

TimmyD

Registered User
Nov 11, 2013
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The Penguins aren't even that bad defensively, people just think they're bad defensively because Jarry gets scored on seemingly every dangerous chance he gets.

You'd forget about a lot of these high danger chances against if Jarry was stopping them. But because he keeps getting scored on, you remember these chances against. Jarry hasn't given up a ton of "bad" goals this year, but he's getting absolutely shredded on high danger chances and that's why people think the team is giving up a ton of those chances. They certainly haven't been good defensively, but they're probably closer to mediocre bordering on poor than as bad as some think.

I definitely wouldn’t be forgetting about them...you would just be able to say “luckily they got bailed out that time.” Even if Jarry saved every high danger chance he’s faced I wouldn’t forget about them
 

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
17,402
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Now you’re stretching. Matheson has shown to be bad defensively over the long run. And it isn’t acting shocked to say that the trade was a bad trade. It’s been widely scrutinized and for good reason. Trading Hornqvist is one thing and can be justified whether anyone agrees with it or not. But trading his contract for a player on another bad contract did not make sense, especially considering this team has not been good defensively and Matheson only exacerbates that based on historical performance.
wait! i thought we got maty to replace horny i've seen the way he deflects pucks in front of our net, screens our goalie so, he would be perfect in front of the other teams. plus he is faster than horny so he should be able to get there before we turn it over and it starts coming back. :laugh:
 

Dennis Reynolds

I have to have my tools!
Jun 10, 2011
3,213
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Paddy's Pub
Why not?

I was certain Murray was a better option

Was pleased when Desmith or Jarry showed a bit of promise

Was sad how Murray was falling and the cost he was gonna have

Felt Jarry/Desmith might make that step

Team is f***ed in front but they ain't helping

Meanwhile, Murray turning it back around and MAF has been plugging away at a decent level

Owners only want to get to POs... I feel MAF gonna open that door. Do I trust him to win a SC again? No. But our current two can't either.
I track with you on almost all of what you're saying.

Jarry and CDS haven't been good. But they've also had defenses in front of them that feature three AHLers or five RHS. I'm not ready to give up on them yet.

I don't feel MAF is worth his contract and I think people only want him here for the sake of nostalgia. I still hate how he crumbles under pressure.
 

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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The Penguins aren't even that bad defensively, people just think they're bad defensively because Jarry gets scored on seemingly every dangerous chance he gets.

You'd forget about a lot of these high danger chances against if Jarry was stopping them. But because he keeps getting scored on, you remember these chances against. Jarry hasn't given up a ton of "bad" goals this year, but he's getting absolutely shredded on high danger chances and that's why people think the team is giving up a ton of those chances. They certainly haven't been good defensively, but they're probably closer to mediocre bordering on poor than as bad as some think.

There’s “high-danger” and there’s “WTF are you doing are you high-danger”. I don’t think we’d look to good if they made that second category when compared to previous years.

I’m not absolving our goaltending but from what I’ve seen this season more so than ever, not all high danger chances against are equal.

The other thing is those are our current goalies so the coach might think about changing things a little.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Virtanen is a bar fly through and through. Loves the boys and the hanger-ons too much to be ever taken serious. Every night is for the boys in his life. His pro hockey career has suffered for it. He's taken zero steps to make himself better. He can't even manage to show up to a pre-season camp in even have way decent shape. He thought sitting in a bar most nights was the best way to prep for the NHL restart last season. I don't think he'll change.
Seguin had the same issue in Boston. A change of scenery can help. Kassian was a mess in Vancouver as well until he went to Edmonton and finally got to the point where he would end up in jail if he didn't change.

Shane O'Brien had issues there too with partying.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
It’s amazing people weren’t outraged after JR’s off season. Almost everyone downplayed the importance of the bottom six.
Our bottom 6 lines are still not an issue.

Jankowski is a solid 4c. Blueger is the 3c like he f***ing should be. The injuries to McCann and ZAR changed the make up and the usage of Doc. But there is nothing wrong with the bottom 6 whatsoever.
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
22,829
11,033
Is Fleury going to do much better with the ****show in front of him right now. I’ve seen way too much of him to be comfortable thinking that would fix a lot. Never mind how much AAV from the skaters has to go.

EDIT: We lose games by more than 2 on average.
We really could be 0-11.
 
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