Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Is one moon enough

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Doughty is still an excellent defenseman. It's just that LA is often a tire fire.

I'm not saying that he should be a target and is awfully expensive but yeah he's still top tier, IMO.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I dont agree with this at all. Who is you lineup without Gally and Bjugstad? We need forward help come playoffs. They absolutely need another top 6 winger or 3C before playoffs. The depth guys we have are not enough to withstand injuries come playoffs. The past two playoffs this was a big issue.

Half the lineup is completely unknown or sucks come playoffs.

Simon 12 GP 0g 4a 4pts
Zar 13GP 0g 1a 1pt
TB 1 GP opts (Unproven in PO)
McCann 3gp 0g 1a 1pt (Unproven in PO)
Lafferty No playoff Exp
Kahun No playoff Exp

They've been absolutely slaughtered with injuries this year to a ton of significant players, but they keep winning. The Penguins are 4th in the NHL in goals this year with a bad powerplay and they have nearly half a dozen bottom-6 options who are on pace for 35 or more points. It really doesn't mean anything that they have forwards without much playoff experience, because their forward group is really damn good. You'd literally not even notice if Galchenyuk was traded, and while Bjugstad being traded would be more noticeable, you'd still be able to survive it.

With not having Bjugstad and Galchenyuk, this is the forward group:

Guentzel-Crosby-Kahun
McCann-Malkin-Rust
Simon-Lafferty-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev
Blandisi-Noesen

That lineup is still really good, even with the questions about Lafferty at 3C. If I could have it my way, I'd do one of two things:

1. Move Bjugstad for futures, trade Galchenyuk for another winger in a Perron-Hagelin deal and keep McCann at 3C
2. Move Galchenyuk for futures, make Bjugstad the 3C and McCann a top-6 LWer

I'd prefer 2 because 2 is a lot easier to do, both from the idea of getting that kind of return for Galchenyuk and being able to move Bjugstad without taking anything back.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Out of all the names i've heard this season to date:

Hall
Palmieri
Zucker
Kreider
Fiala
Donato
Pageau
E.Staal
Neiderreiter

Scandella
Martinez
Pesce
Gardiner
Miller

Are the ones i like the most/believe could help the most.
Really not big on:
Frolik
Vesey
Toffoli

ETA: Also obviously like stuff out of TOR like Kapanen/Johnsson but haven't heard their names out there as much as the aboves.

 

[66-30-33]

Galchenyuk, Schultz, Bjugstad, 1st, 2nd for Toffoli, Doughty.

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Kahun-Malkin-Toffoli
Tanev-McCann-Hornqvist
Simon-Bleuger-Lafferty

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Doughty
Johnson-Marino

Who’s with me

That's a big no from me dawg! also no way could we afford Marino with all those raises coming and DD making 11M.

 

[Darren McCord]

Are you kidding me? They've been absolutely slaughtered with injuries this year to a ton of significant players, but they keep winning. The idea that their depth is somehow anything but great is asinine. There's no other way to put it.

The Penguins are 4th in the NHL in goals this year with a bad powerplay and they have nearly half a dozen bottom-6 options who are on pace for 35 or more points. It really doesn't mean anything that they have forwards without much playoff experience, because their forward group is really damn good. Saying they need to acquire more veteran players because the young guys who are performing well don't have experience is a straight up Dan Bylsma move.

Where did I say they need some grizzled vet. I just think you need more depth come playoffs. Gally is on pace for 39pts. You still lose that depth if you get rid of him and dont get anyone. Bjugs should be moved but I think if you move both you should still get another winger. I dont get why that is crazy.

This is the bottom 6 pace.

McCann is on pace for 52
Tanev is on pace for 44pts

Lafferty is on pace for 35pts
Simon is on pace for 35pts

Zar is on pace for 19pts
TB is on pace for 21pts

Thats a big drop to ZAR and TB with injuries you'd have Nosen, Johnson, Blandsi in the line up. I just dont think that is good enough for playoffs.

 

[Turin]

Did Doughty become good again this season? Certainly hasn’t been worth his contract. I haven’t looked him up this season.

i still think he’s good, I think a few of LA’s players could still have something to give outside of LA. That said, my proposal was what happens when you’re thinking of a Galch/Toffoli swap and get way too bored to post it.

 

[Turin]

Where did I say they need some grizzled vet. I just think you need more depth come playoffs. Gally is on pace for 39pts. You still lose that depth if you get rid of him and dont get anyone. Bjugs should be moved but I think if you move both you should still get another winger. I dont get why that is crazy.

This is the bottom 6 pace.

McCann is on pace for 52
Tanev is on pace for 44pts

Lafferty is on pace for 35pts
Simon is on pace for 35pts

Zar is on pace for 19pts
TB is on pace for 21pts

Thats a big drop to ZAR and TB with injuries you'd have Nosen, Johnson, Blandsi in the line up. I just dont think that is good enough for playoffs.

That’s a range of production anywhere from normal to very good.

 

[Gfroer]

Out of all the names i've heard this season to date:

Hall
Palmieri
Zucker
Kreider
Fiala
Donato
Pageau
E.Staal
Neiderreiter

Scandella
Martinez
Pesce
Gardiner
Miller

Are the ones i like the most/believe could help the most.
Really not big on:
Frolik
Vesey
Toffoli

ETA: Also obviously like stuff out of TOR like Kapanen/Johnsson but haven't heard their names out there as much as the aboves.

Not interested in Hall, Donato or Staal but they rest are each interesting in their own way for the right price. I'd much rather let McCann grow in the 3C spot and bring in a top 6W.

No clue what their plans on D are though, I'd replace Schultz asap but they might give it one more go with him before letting him walk in the summer.

 

[JTG]

I honestly don't see a point in trying to do another Bjugstad and McCann type of trade. The Penguins forward group is really good already, they'd be completely fine with just not having Galchenyuk and Bjugstad. I don't see what guys like Frolik or Vesey do for them compared to just letting them walk or trading them for prospects.

The only thing your forward needs for the long run is either a scoring top-6 winger or a 3C, depending on where you want to play McCann. If they don't get rid of Bjugstad, they don't really need any forward help in the long run.

I would do any deal that brought back a guy who plays with speed and a bit of jam. If a team came to me and offered a player like Tanev - I take it every time.

I don't give a f*** what Galchenyuk has done, how many goals he has scored, where he was drafted, or the alleged lack of opportunity he has had.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

And why exactly would that be upsetting?

Just so I understand if we did just a flat out cap dump for Kessel it would have been upsetting?

I'm trying to understand this whole situation

I'm not saying it'd be upsetting. I'm saying Galchenyuk is worthless.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We're gonna get a guy who scores even less than Galchenyuk!?

 

[WayneSid9987]

Certainly a match between SJ and us(who just lost 4 in a row).
They could use a ZAR and a G.
Or any F/D with a defensive conscience.

 

[chethejet]

UNless Pens falter or injuries continue, Pens will go with this up to the TDL. Sid back in January and if the D has no hits, Pens can compete. But GMJR loves to trade so who knows.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I just hope theres still some motivation to move JJ.
If you are watching MP right now and you know JJ can't hack the ratcheting up on a 2nd pairing, you bes' be trying to find someone to sturdy it.

Gotta think they were looking at something in BUF and no doubt it was a Miller or Scandella.
Think Scandella would be real nice...

Dumo-Letang
Scandella-Marino

I also like McCabe.

 

[Peat]

I've been pretty underwhelmed with Gooch but man... it's not such a simple issue. Injuries, playing time, fitting in and the fact that he's obviously a bit of a slow learner all factor in.

He isn't "useless" he's just not working out here so far. I can very much see a future where he's playing somewhere else and at least putting up respectable offensive numbers. But it's clear he's being asked to do things a certain way here (which I'm not complaining about... to be expected on a team emphasizing structure and discipline this year) and it's not lining up with his strong suits. Put him in a different system with a different coach with different expectations and things could very well be different for him.

I feel like that even more than a different system (although would help), Chucky needs a team that needs him more. If Sully doesn't like Chucky's play, he can reduce his ice time with no consequences - we've had 9 different goal scorers at 5v5 in the last 5 games, we don't need his offence there. We like it, but not enough to give him more minutes over guys who do more things off the puck and are giving just as much offence. It's a very reasonable point of view. It's less reasonable that we're not using him more on the Power Play but all I can do is shrug and say its not great but that's not the big issue and that besides, the Chucky's main strength and the PP's main issue don't really marry up. If it was Geno missing I'd be arguing for Chucky but he's not.

A team that's not getting the same secondary scoring we are would probably try a lot harder to get Chucky's offence going - more minutes, better line partners, etc.etc. And really, his numbers given ice time aren't horrible. Plug his current scoring rates into 12.30 minutes of 5v5 and 3 minutes of PP time a night rather than 10.30 and 2 and you get about a 54 point pace over the season. Galchenyuk can give the exact same performance elsewhere and look pretty decent if given minutes and support. Perfectly respectable 2nd line numbers. Just we've got better players to give it to (except on the PP, where we should be using him more).

And if we're talking Chucky's value... I really doubt nobody in the NHL hasn't done the same maths.

 

[66-30-33]

i still think he’s good, I think a few of LA’s players could still have something to give outside of LA. That said, my proposal was what happens when you’re thinking of a Galch/Toffoli swap and get way too bored to post it.

After the Pearson trade I rather not try for Toffoli. Kempe on the other hand? pretty sure he's a fast guy and he's young like McCann.

 

[Andy99]

I feel like that even more than a different system (although would help), Chucky needs a team that needs him more. If Sully doesn't like Chucky's play, he can reduce his ice time with no consequences - we've had 9 different goal scorers at 5v5 in the last 5 games, we don't need his offence there. We like it, but not enough to give him more minutes over guys who do more things off the puck and are giving just as much offence. It's a very reasonable point of view. It's less reasonable that we're not using him more on the Power Play but all I can do is shrug and say its not great but that's not the big issue and that besides, the Chucky's main strength and the PP's main issue don't really marry up. If it was Geno missing I'd be arguing for Chucky but he's not.

A team that's not getting the same secondary scoring we are would probably try a lot harder to get Chucky's offence going - more minutes, better line partners, etc.etc. And really, his numbers given ice time aren't horrible. Plug his current scoring rates into 12.30 minutes of 5v5 and 3 minutes of PP time a night rather than 10.30 and 2 and you get about a 54 point pace over the season. Galchenyuk can give the exact same performance elsewhere and look pretty decent if given minutes and support. Perfectly respectable 2nd line numbers. Just we've got better players to give it to (except on the PP, where we should be using him more).

And if we're talking Chucky's value... I really doubt nobody in the NHL hasn't done the same maths.

Agree...as I said earlier, we should be playing him more...our PP sucks and he’s had a few important offensive plays in some games when given the chance...he may not do enough otherwise and has had some mistakes, but so do most of our depth players...and if he played with two defensive players, you can mitigate some of his weaknesses...he offers more secondary scoring than TB, ZAR, Simon, Lafferty, Noesen, Tanev...unless we can trade him for a better scoring option, we’re better off removing him from L4 while Sid and Horny are still out, and play...
Jake-G-Rust
Gally-McCann-Kahun

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Is Scandella good? I thought he stunk?

Either way, Bjugstad for him would be a way to clear cap for next season.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Side note: I knew Marino was having an exceptional first 25ish games, but seeing that he's the best defensive blueliner statistically is unbelievably awesome. He's not going it like an Ian Cole or some schlep who hugs guys along the wall or happens to be in lanes to block shots. He's doing it with incredible skating, stickwork, and with his ability to read plays and cut them off before they develop--particularly at the blueline.

Kid's been unreal. Now, find a stud LD to pair with him and allow the two to grow/develop into our future top pairing when Letang rides off into the sunset in three years.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

Watch Rutherford push hard for Montour. He was trying hard to get him last year but I think he's RD.

 

[66-30-33]

Side note: I knew Marino was having an exceptional first 25ish games, but seeing that he's the best defensive blueliner statistically is unbelievably awesome. He's not going it like an Ian Cole or some schlep who hugs guys along the wall or happens to be in lanes to block shots. He's doing it with incredible skating, stickwork, and with his ability to read plays and cut them off before they develop--particularly at the blueline.

Kid's been unreal. Now, find a stud LD to pair with him and allow the two to grow/develop into our future top pairing when Letang rides off into the sunset in three years.

Like who for stud LD?? not a whole lot of LD's to look at as it''s mostly RD's that are tradeable.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Watch Rutherford push hard for Montour. He was trying hard to get him last year but I think he's RD.

Wouldn't surprise me either.
This thing of letting RD-RD play together may play into that:

Letang-Marino
Dumo-Montour
MP-Schultz

With Schultz being our own rental or used as trade bait.

BUF are kinda stacked at both RD and LD cuz they have all those RD on the big club + Dahlin/Scandella/McCabe up with Gilmour, Pilut, Fitzgerald pushing up now too.

I wouldn't mind Miller at all either. Like i said since this RD-RD experiment you can make a RD or a LD work.
Say you get Miller:

Letang-Marino
Dumo-Miller/JS
MP-Miller/JS

Get a LD like Scandella or McCabe:

Dumo-Letang/Marino
Scandella/McCabe-Letang/Marino
MP-JS

 

[Peat]

Agree...as I said earlier, we should be playing him more...our PP sucks and he’s had a few important offensive plays in some games when given the chance...he may not do enough otherwise and has had some mistakes, but so do most of our depth players...and if he played with two defensive players, you can mitigate some of his weaknesses...he offers more secondary scoring than TB, ZAR, Simon, Lafferty, Noesen, Tanev...unless we can trade him for a better scoring option, we’re better off removing him from L4 while Sid and Horny are still out, and play...
Jake-G-Rust
Gally-McCann-Kahun

So far this season, Simon/Lafferty/Tanev all offer superior points production in terms of minutes played and until Galchenyuk looks like he can improve on that, I see no reason to offer him secondary scoring positions ahead of them. More PP time by all means, but 5v5, he needs to make a case for being a better bet.

And while he does offer more scoring than Bloogs and ZAR, handing Chucky their assignments would be cruel and unusual punishment for everybody involved, plus our chances of victory.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Like who for stud LD?? not a whole lot of LD's to look at as it''s mostly RD's that are tradeable.

it’s weird. Def feels like entire league overcompensated because I swear RDs were super scarce and in demand like 18 months ago.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Like who?? not a whole lot of LD's to look at as it''s mostly RD's that are tradeable.

I don't know, I'm not a GM with the pulse of every GM/team around the league.

Go out and find him. It won't be easy, and it won't be cheap, but I think it's 100% necessary moving forward.

Arguably just as important is finding the right guy for Geno-Rust. I think that's probably either Zucker or Kreider. That's another pressing issue, but in that case, it's much more simple to solve. I think we've already got the guy for Sid-Jake in Kahun--who is just a much, much better Simon imo.

Jake-Sid-Kahun
Zucker/Kreider-Geno-Rust

thumbsup.gif