Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: If they trade Letang, Scandy Riots

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Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
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Then again, JR having money to spend in FA might be a bad idea. :laugh:

I might be making this up in my head, but wasn't there a "really deep" draft not too long ago? Then after a few years, it was like, "Oh, it wasn't as good as we thought."?

I know the draft is a percentage game and you need picks to hit on some players, especially some high picks, but it is still a crapshoot even in a deep draft. Where as we KNOW removing JMFJ would be a significant improvement to the team. Plus it improves the team during Crosby and Malkin's best remaining years.

He gave Hunwick a bad contract and used Sheary to move him to sign jj. He could use murray to move jj and sign some other crap. Kind of like Groundhog Day but depressing af to watch.

When are we going to let go of the idea of "just scratching" JJ?

I mean... I know YOU guys would do it. Sullivan will not. He's proved this over and over even under the most dire circumstances.

He’s scratched him 3 times, thank you very much. If they have at least 6 defensemen Sullivan likes more than JJ they’ll be fine... totally reasonable and rational.

Ha... even then it would be like "Wait no... not like that. Not THOSE six! Find ANOTHER six."

Gotta say it seems to me the greater fantasy is both hoping for them to scratch JJ at this point and that a rookie is good enough to play as a regular out of camp. That seems way more hopeful than using Muzz to dump a bad deal.

I think the only somewhat realistic way JJ is actually removed from the lineup is that Reirden likes Riikola similar to Kempny, Riikola plays well, Reirden shakes up the pairings, and JJ becomes the clear odd man out. Even that’s pretty unrealistic/optimistic.

Either way, I was asking what people would rather do, not what’s more likely. And I agree with others, let’s just take the toy away.

Where are we getting the idea that JR views JJ as a negative asset and is willing to sink the value of a 1st to get rid of him?

It's all fantasy land.



You don't need it for the start of next year, you just need it eventually. I think it's way more likely that they'd scratch Johnson for POJ than JR being willing to dump a 1st rounder in value to get rid of him. If we're talking about a fantasy scenario where JR is willing to dump a 1st, I'm throwing up the fantasy scenario of scratching JJ for POJ, which I view as more realistic.

Well that's true... it IS all hypothetical. And you are right that JR does seem to value him which... is in and of itself a problem.

So basically even in a fantasyland situation the team is still screwed on this issue based on years of precedent both from the GM and coach. One for valuing him beyond all reason and the other for, well... same thing.

I guess somehow you've made me feel worse. Well done.

yeah and I was pointing out my disagreement with that assessment of likelihood.

But in regards to what I originally posted, seems like a good many people would like to just be done with Johnson, even at the cost of Murray. And I agree. That’s all I was asking, not how realistic it is.

But seriously... what value does he have?

He has been a negative value asset in every playoff year he has been a Penguin.

I don’t care if a guy scored 50 goals a season ala Neal or is some supposed defensive savant... you have to measure his value on his playoff performances.

Most especially when you are a GM trying to understand why your team has won just two of their last 12 playoff games.

JR needs to ask himself...

Has this guy done anything to help me win these games... no... has he been a negative asset during these playoff games... yes...

Why am I keeping him around when I’m trying to change this losing playoff culture?

It makes no sense to keep around a guy like ZAR if you want to change this pathetic run of playoff misery they find themselves in.

5 games in someone falls out of favour or gets hurt and

giphy.gif

Continue!
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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It was brought up in the last thread, but to clarify something that likely won't matter, but Edmonton CAN keep their 2020 3rd round pick in this years draft if they decide to. They then would have to part with a 3rd next year due to the shortened season.
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
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If the Oilers would consider giving up their 1st in a MM deal, we could give up our 3rd.

Maybe MM and our 2020 3rd for their 2020 1st and say a sixth rounder. That'd balance it out a bit.
 

SouthGeorge

Registered User
May 2, 2018
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If they trade Letang...

NCjR.gif


What return could we even get for him? It's way too late imo but might be addition by subtraction.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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But seriously... what value does he have?

He has been a negative value asset in every playoff year he has been a Penguin.

I don’t care if a guy scored 50 goals a season ala Neal or is some supposed defensive savant... you have to measure his value on his playoff performances.

Most especially when you are a GM trying to understand why your team has won just two of their last 12 playoff games.

JR needs to ask himself...

Has this guy done anything to help me win these games... no... has he been a negative asset during these playoff games... yes...

Why am I keeping him around when I’m trying to change this losing playoff culture?

It makes no sense to keep around a guy like ZAR if you want to change this pathetic run of playoff misery they find themselves in.

I agree with this but some players are late bloomers and ZAR has had injuries that derailed his start to career(remember how excited we were when he started on the top line with Sid?). Simon has also gotten better. I havent liked either of them but this is the year where the "late bloomers" start to get things going. Both 26 years old. If they dont this season we simply replace them.

Btw its also hard to judge them based on the last 2 playoff years. Only 4 games each time. Lets say they were on those cup winning teams and got to play 20+ games. Who says they dont put up 10 or so points? Rust had that luxury at the time. Sheary did. These 2 never have.

If you asked me right now to decide, Id replace both of them. But no harm in seeing how it plays out next season. If its the same, then trade deadline it is. Or maybe someone in WBS stands out.

But Right now Im hoping Poulin forces his way onto the team. He would more likely than Legare since he plays a two way game and we know Sullivan only trusts that. Poulin is the type that could play in bottom 6 and still thrive imo. Thats what weve been waiting for. I dont see him needing the top 6 to succeed. He could gel with McCann and Hornqvist(if thats the 3rd line still) or Blueger and Tanev.

Also hoping we sign a solid UFA on a 1-2 year deal(one thats willing to wait out the cap situation in the league). That means we could trade Murray for pick or a prospect whos close to being ready. Josh Norris from the Sens would be nice(yeah I know but you get the point).

So My ideal offseason...

Poulin makes team

Sign a Toffoli/Granlund/Haula type for that short term deal(again, if possible).

Trade Murray for that top prospect whos close to being ready. A team willing to take that risk. Not wanting to part with that player but wanting Murray enough to do it. I mention the Sens since they know all about him after what he did to them in the ECF. Or Avs being desperate and willing to part with a top one, we know the risks they take with prospects. Maybe Calgary. I say no to the Oilers.

Guentzel - Crosby - Kapanen
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
McCann - Haula - Poulin/Hornqvist
Tanev - Blueger - Hornqvist/Poulin

Would be the ideal lineup for playoffs. Assuming all goes well with Poulin.

For regular season...ZAR will be out til Jan. Simon may not start the season. Who knows with Bjugstad. So there could be a spot for Poulin. Then when those guys are healthy, you know we will have multiple injuries again so theres plenty of games to go around for the 3 mentioned above to prove themselves. Which is another thing they should keep in mind when deciding on Poulin. The fact that we always have a ton of missed games throughout the lineup , why waste another year in juniors? Id rather start the clock now, if we have to send him down to WBS then so be it. He can improve there. But let him get NHL time in now and be ready for the playoffs. Goal is to win now right? What if he is that diff maker like Rust or Guentzel, somewhere in between?

Hopefully ZAR and Simon(even Bjugstad) prove us wrong...or at least do decent enough to where we could move them at the deadline. We will see if they past that eye test. You dont just hope they gain another year of reg experience then gamble that theyll make an impact in the playoffs. We need to see them make huge strides in the regular season.

Also If we are all in then someone like Lafferty shouldnt be the 13th forward. No offense to him but just not ready yet to make that difference come playoff time. Hes not on Poulin's level.

The point of this long post is all they should be thinking about is the playoffs. And prepare for it now instead of having to scramble when things go wrong in the reg season. Making too many moves and not able to establish a bottom 6 come playoffs. Make sure we have it this time.
 
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Malkinstheman

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Aug 12, 2012
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Kypreos also said that a 5x5 deal might be agreed on already. Friedman also heard 5x5.

Everyone get ready because MAF is coming back.
 

SEALBound

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Kypreos also said that a 5x5 deal might be agreed on already. Friedman also heard 5x5.

Everyone get ready because MAF is coming back.


MAF at $1-2mil for 2-3yrs is something I would accept...reluctantly though. With that, I think he could easily enter the market and do just fine. Plenty of teams could use a 1B or a quality backup.

That said, Lehner off the table, Crawford being offered a contract, and Vancouver wanting Markstrom back is excellent news for the Murray value.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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MAF at $1-2mil for 2-3yrs is something I would accept...reluctantly though. With that, I think he could easily enter the market and do just fine. Plenty of teams could use a 1B or a quality backup.

That said, Lehner off the table, Crawford being offered a contract, and Vancouver wanting Markstrom back is excellent news for the Murray value.

You think they are retaining 5 mil on Fleury? Or you think they are buying him out?
 

Rakell67

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Kypreos also said that a 5x5 deal might be agreed on already. Friedman also heard 5x5.

Everyone get ready because MAF is coming back.


To VEG:
McCann (RFA)
Johnson (3@$3.25)
Aston-Reese (1@$1.0)
To PIT:
Fleury 2.0 retained (2@$5.0)
Stephenson (RFA)
 

Malkinstheman

Registered User
Aug 12, 2012
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Which would be ok if it was for Bjugstad and JJ

I think it depends on what MAFs value is. Vegas will try to recoup as much cap space as possible. If a buyout is the only option, they might be willing to do something like that.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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I agree with this but some players are late bloomers and ZAR has had injuries that derailed his start to career(remember how excited we were when he started on the top line with Sid?). Simon has also gotten better. I havent liked either of them but this is the year where the "late bloomers" start to get things going. Both 26 years old. If they dont this season we simply replace them.

Btw its also hard to judge them based on the last 2 playoff years. Only 4 games each time. Lets say they were on those cup winning teams and got to play 20+ games. Who says they dont put up 10 or so points? Rust had that luxury at the time. Sheary did. These 2 never have.

If you asked me right now to decide, Id replace both of them. But no harm in seeing how it plays out next season. If its the same, then trade deadline it is. Or maybe someone in WBS stands out.

But Right now Im hoping Poulin forces his way onto the team. He would more likely than Legare since he plays a two way game and we know Sullivan only trusts that. Poulin is the type that could play in bottom 6 and still thrive imo. Thats what weve been waiting for. I dont see him needing the top 6 to succeed. He could gel with McCann and Hornqvist(if thats the 3rd line still) or Blueger and Tanev.

Also hoping we sign a solid UFA on a 1-2 year deal(one thats willing to wait out the cap situation in the league). That means we could trade Murray for pick or a prospect whos close to being ready. Josh Norris from the Sens would be nice(yeah I know but you get the point).

So My ideal offseason...

Poulin makes team

Sign a Toffoli/Granlund/Haula type for that short term deal(again, if possible).

Trade Murray for that top prospect whos close to being ready. A team willing to take that risk. Not wanting to part with that player but wanting Murray enough to do it. I mention the Sens since they know all about him after what he did to them in the ECF. Or Avs being desperate and willing to part with a top one, we know the risks they take with prospects. Maybe Calgary. I say no to the Oilers.

Guentzel - Crosby - Kapanen
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
McCann - Haula - Poulin/Hornqvist
Tanev - Blueger - Hornqvist/Poulin

Would be the ideal lineup for playoffs. Assuming all goes well with Poulin.

For regular season...ZAR will be out til Jan. Simon may not start the season. Who knows with Bjugstad. So there could be a spot for Poulin. Then when those guys are healthy, you know we will have multiple injuries again so theres plenty of games to go around for the 3 mentioned above to prove themselves. Which is another thing they should keep in mind when deciding on Poulin. The fact that we always have a ton of missed games throughout the lineup , why waste another year in juniors? Id rather start the clock now, if we have to send him down to WBS then so be it. He can improve there. But let him get NHL time in now and be ready for the playoffs. Goal is to win now right? What if he is that diff maker like Rust or Guentzel, somewhere in between?

Hopefully ZAR and Simon(even Bjugstad) prove us wrong...or at least do decent enough to where we could move them at the deadline. We will see if they past that eye test. You dont just hope they gain another year of reg experience then gamble that theyll make an impact in the playoffs. We need to see them make huge strides in the regular season.

Also If we are all in then someone like Lafferty shouldnt be the 13th forward. No offense to him but just not ready yet to make that difference come playoff time. Hes not on Poulin's level.

The point of this long post is all they should be thinking about is the playoffs. And prepare for it now instead of having to scramble when things go wrong in the reg season. Making too many moves and not able to establish a bottom 6 come playoffs. Make sure we have it this time.

I just disagree about the sample size. A guy like ZAR has to show up and do something in the playoffs to warrant the continued faith the org keeps showing him.

It’s not only his atrocious lack of scoring, but he’s been bad at both ends of the rink during the playoffs.

I have repeatedly pointed this out and his mistakes the last few years, but there always seems to be an excuse for the guy.

The defense of ZAR around here is literally
Adams level shit redux.

I find it totally bizarre.

ZAR isn’t some highly touted first rounder we are waiting to bloom.

He is an at best decent fourth liner if he maxed out his potential.

Why would you keep putting him back in the mix when the results aren’t there and you want to change things?

Cant change the core.. can’t trade Rust... can’t trade Hornqvist he’s a Viking... ZAR has fancy stats, might as well keep him to.

Again, people and JR especially, best remember this mix has lead to 10 playoff losses in the last 12... which might be the worst run this franchise has ever had since I started following them as a kid in the late 80s.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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If Vegas retains like 50% of MAF's deal, I could live with taking him back. I think right now, it's less about who we have as a tandem out of the guys realistically possible, and more about how much we allocate to our goalies. We can't be spending like $8 million or something on the starter and backup while we still need pretty much an entire third line, and a serious reshuffling of our bottom-4 on defense.
 
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