Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - If the dog days had dog days

[Gurglesons]

I'm not a 100% sold on it myself - although I liked a lot of what I saw, think there's reason for optimism on production, and I'm okay with a line struggling to produce when it concedes next to zero goals - but I think they're fairly sold on it. The journos seem to think they like it, it solves awkward questions like "Do our Cs really like to play with Hornqvist", it gives them a third line they can use for match ups, and there is potential there for it to be ridiculously good for a 3rd line. It seems like an obvious place to start.

I mean, while it struggled to produce. As a third line they had 9 goals in I think 18 games if I remember correctly? It’s not like they sucked given their usage. I think the frustration at that time was Teddy was 2nd line C and not producing as well.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah but Sheary was with Sid.

And Galchenyuk will likely be with Malkin.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hornqvist couldn't score with anyone last half of the year, but then seemed to have a bounce back in the Worlds. I'd like to see that line again out of the gate to see how it if they were just unlucky/snake bitten vs it being a line that just can't produce.

Yeah I would prefer to see that line together, I'm just not sold it will be kept together to enter next year. Having a 2nd line of Galchenyuk-Malkin-Hornqvist seems like a really reasonable suggestion for what the Penguins may try to start next year. It leaves your 3rd line in a somewhat awkward spot, but that 2nd line could be really good.

I'm not a 100% sold on it myself - although I liked a lot of what I saw, think there's reason for optimism on production, and I'm okay with a line struggling to produce when it concedes next to zero goals - but I think they're fairly sold on it. The journos seem to think they like it, it solves awkward questions like "Do our Cs really like to play with Hornqvist", it gives them a third line they can use for match ups, and there is potential there for it to be ridiculously good for a 3rd line. It seems like an obvious place to start.

I should clarify, I'm talking about what the Penguins would do, not what I would do. I'm not sold that Sullivan will keep that line together. I'd start next year with that line as the 3rd line, though.

that third line stinks

Not really but okay.

 

[Peat]

I mean, while it struggled to produce. As a third line they had 9 goals in I think 18 games if I remember correctly? It’s not like they sucked given their usage. I think the frustration at that time was Teddy was 2nd line C and not producing as well.

8 goals in 219 minutes when those two were on the ice (looks like 19 games together on NST). No real context for what a third line is expected to get to compare against but I feel like that's at worst mediocre to a little bad rather than actually awful; that's 2.19 GF/60 (I think) and Denis Malgin was 129th out of the 196 Cs playing 500+ minutes with a 2.19 GF/60. That still doesn't really give me much context tbh...

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I actually think his agent could be playing nice in the media as a negotiating tactic. If you are the agent's for the Marner's of the world, you can be combative in the media because your player's profile is so high.

Pettersson may be better served by an agent that is playing super positive and then when things get down to the wire, you can play the "team didn't move the cap space needed to get the player signed" and then it makes the team look bad. Not saying this is happening, but doing it this way puts the onus on the team to make a move and then you play your hand when they don't.

Pettersson may not have a ton of leverage, but the Pens need him this year if they are going to try to contend, so if I were him/agent, I would play that for all it's worth.

I think they avoid that this summer b/c end of the day, if all he gets is a cheap 1 yr offer- they have to take it or he won’t play in the NHL this year. And then all you’ve done is hurt the relationship for no financial gain.

MP’s in a good spot in Pittsburgh, he definitely played better here than Anaheim. I think he and the agent realize the best thing for his career and earnings is to play well this season, and the best way to play well is by staying in a good situation. Which stinks for him but that’s kind of the nature of restricted FA. Idk, we’ll see what happens though.

 

[Andy99]

 

[Peat]

I actually think his agent could be playing nice in the media as a negotiating tactic. If you are the agent's for the Marner's of the world, you can be combative in the media because your player's profile is so high.

Pettersson may be better served by an agent that is playing super positive and then when things get down to the wire, you can play the "team didn't move the cap space needed to get the player signed" and then it makes the team look bad. Not saying this is happening, but doing it this way puts the onus on the team to make a move and then you play your hand when they don't.

Pettersson may not have a ton of leverage, but the Pens need him this year if they are going to try to contend, so if I were him/agent, I would play that for all it's worth.

Is media/fan goodwill really more profitable to Pettersson's overall paydays with the Pens than a good relationship with the front office?

And isn't this pretty close to the wire if that's the plan?

 

[Andy99]

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And Galchenyuk will likely be with Malkin.

Right. Do you think he provides the same boost, esp given who plays behind him?

 

[Empoleon8771]

8 goals in 219 minutes when those two were on the ice (looks like 19 games together on NST). No real context for what a third line is expected to get to compare against but I feel like that's at worst mediocre to a little bad rather than actually awful; that's 2.19 GF/60 (I think) and Denis Malgin was 129th out of the 196 Cs playing 500+ minutes with a 2.19 GF/60. That still doesn't really give me much context tbh...

Bonino had a 5v5 GF/60 of 1.87 in 2016-2017, and I think most people thought Bonino had a bad year that year overall. So 2.19 GF/60 is probably just poor to mediocre, so your interpretation is probably fair.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's almost like he's a giant problem for whoever he plays with.

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Bonino had a 5v5 GF/60 of 1.87 in 2016-2017, and I think most people thought Bonino had a bad year that year overall. So 2.19 GF/60 is probably just poor to mediocre, so your interpretation is probably fair.

Curious who Bonino/Kessel had behind them in terms of Defenseman over the years. That'd be interesting

 

[Gurglesons]

8 goals in 219 minutes when those two were on the ice (looks like 19 games together on NST). No real context for what a third line is expected to get to compare against but I feel like that's at worst mediocre to a little bad rather than actually awful; that's 2.19 GF/60 (I think) and Denis Malgin was 129th out of the 196 Cs playing 500+ minutes with a 2.19 GF/60. That still doesn't really give me much context tbh...

If the third line is producing a goal in the very other game and holding down defensively like that line is I’m more than happy personally.

I know others have higher expectations from our third line offensively though.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right. Do you think he provides the same boost, esp given who plays behind him?

Potentially. I’d say there is a likely chance that Galchenyuk’s specific skill sit forces and also accents what we want from the Malkin line moving forward that Phil’s 100% did not.

Also, as @Empoleon8771 posted it seems that the plan is Petts - Schultz as a 2nd pairing.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Just finalize the damn roster already. Why wait until September? Only thing it accomplishes is making the players uneasy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I will say that while I have concerns with Pettersson-Schultz as a pair (mainly because I think they'll struggle against physical teams), I really want to see how bad a Johnson-Gudbranson pair would be. Watching that pair flop around the ice against a team like Tampa would be hilarious to watch, as long as it's not in the playoffs.

Oddly enough, I think a Johnson-Gudbranson pair could work (as well as it can) in the games that Pettersson-Schultz would struggle, so I'm actually a little interested to see how that pair would look in practice. That pair is 100000% going to suck against faster skilled teams, but it may actually be passable against grinding teams. And when I say "passable", I mean "terrible analytics but they're hitting people, so you think they're doing something".

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I will say that while I have concerns with Pettersson-Schultz as a pair (mainly because I think they'll struggle against physical teams), I really want to see how bad a Johnson-Gudbranson pair would be. Watching that pair flop around the ice against a team like Tampa would be hilarious to watch, as long as it's not in the playoffs.

Oddly enough, I think a Johnson-Gudbranson pair could work (as well as it can) in the games that Pettersson-Schultz would struggle, so I'm actually a little interested to see how that pair would look in practice. That pair is 100000% going to suck against faster skilled teams, but it may actually be passable against grinding teams. And when I say "passable", I mean "terrible analytics but they're hitting people, so you think they're doing something".

You never know how pairs will work until you try them. Heck I thought Scuderi-Gill was going to be a disaster, but somehow it ended up working as a shutdown duo

See- DB did something right!

 

[Corvidae]

It's OK to beat a dead horse until someone removes the damn carcass.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's OK to beat a dead horse until someone removes the damn carcass.

 

[Riptide]

Galchenyuk won't top 50 points .

Mostly because hes no longer gonna get #1 PP mins like in Arizona. his 5v5 production is meh.

35-45 points i think

It hasn't been as good as one would like... however when looking at his past teams and linemates it's not a complete surprise that his ES numbers have been meh for much of his career. And the one time he did have quality wingers his production was fine with 40 ES points. And that was as a center, not as a winger to Malkin or Crosby. Personally I'm not all that worried about him.

 

[Khelandros]

Just finalize the damn roster already. Why wait until September? Only thing it accomplishes is making the players uneasy.

The roster doesn't get finalized til October 1st.

 

[Riptide]

If I'm a player, no chance in hell I do a "hand shake" agreement. Career is on the line every night. No way.

He doesn't have any other choice. He's not going to sign in Europe and he can't sign with any other team. This isn't a UFA waiting for a GM to make room to give him a deal while passing up other offers... it's an RFA with few rights waiting to get a deal done.

I think what @Peat said is right... that there's 2 deals on the table (one multi year and one cheap that we can afford without making moves)... and that one of these will be signed within the next week to allow MP to get to camp on time. It's just a question as to which one - and that's dependent on whether JR can make a move before hand.

Agreed. That's how I would approach it too. What if he blows out his knee this year or has a major concussion? I get bridge deals for sure, but why should I sign a 1 year low money deal to accommodate a GM that can't/won't dump Johnson for whatever and just blew cap space on 6 years of Tanev?

And what choice does he have if he doesn't sign it? He can't force a GM to give him a multi year contract. He's certainly not going to sit out waiting to sign a contract that may never come. If anything all that does is give JJ more time to establish himself on the roster.

People are acting like he has a big say here... he doesn't. Yes he can refuse to sign a cheap 1 yr deal, but he can't force Rutherford to give him a long big money deal - especially when the cap space isn't there.

 

[Peat]

Just finalize the damn roster already. Why wait until September? Only thing it accomplishes is making the players uneasy.

The difference between Pettersson on a long term contract signed now and one signed next year could be considerable. Ditto the difference between bad and good returns on moving cap. Finalising things now - insofar as things can be finalised at this point - throws that away when maybe it could be salvaged.

 

[Riptide]

I mean if there’s nothing else offered, his only other choice is to sit out. Doubt anyone would offer sheet him. Maybe go to Europe but he could get hurt there too and it’s less money. What is he really going to do? Not play hockey and make no money for a year? It stinks but at least he can try to have a big season and cash in for even more down the line.

Injury wise I’m positive he takes out insurance if he were to operate on a 1 year deal.

So I agree with the general point you guys make about long term security, but I understand taking a handshake deal for certain guys. Petts being one. A Marner, Rantanen or Boeser level RFA definitely shouldn’t though.

The issue isn't that he won't get paid for that contract... it's that he's running the risk of missing out on millions in the future if he has a major injury that could threaten his career before he signs the multi year deal. There's a reason why players sign multi year deals when they're young to the point that some question the cap hit. They're doing so to secure their long term future. If they get the chance they can always sign another deal. But if they don't get that chance they'll be super thankful that they did sign the one that they did.