Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - HARD KNOCK LIFE...FOR US!

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Ugene Magic

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From last thread page.

Hope Dumo was just injured. If he’s back to normal I’d really want to see them go with he and Marino again as the top shutdown pair. They were so good in brutal usage.

It would soften up Letang’s minutes so he can feast on inferior competition, and simultaneously limit the 3rd pairing (JJ) to very low TOI.

I think people are going to be very disappointed when there isn't a major shakeup.

Well JJ IS a good third pairing guy who’s great at the PK and shot blocking and is great in the room...we have to make every accommodation to play him as many minutes as we can with a good partner... that’s why Sullivan put him out there at the end of a one-goal game when we needed a goal to tie the game...just a really good hockey player and we’re thankful to have him

If/when this happens I hope it bumps up all of JJ's stats and makes him way more attractive to other teams.

See, isn't life when you learn to stop worry and love the bomb?



I suspect in Jan/Feb there will injuries or a player that blows ass that will allow us to make a swap. I still tend to think that a Rask-JJ swap couldn't be the worst thing for either team.

I don't see how he's going to be more attractive to other teams. The only thing that will make him attractive is a prospect or a pick. Or hell, if we retain.

Or just buy him out and not waste assets just to get rid of him.

Literally no chance I'm reading people have concerns about Jake right? After that injury and coming back in this silly tournament. That would just be next level worry

Realistically, the only way they're getting rid of JJ is if they healthy scratch him for POJ and maybe they'll trade him next off-season.

I'd like to hear JR's plan to acquire a RD he views as being the right guy to play with JJ, because I'm thinking he's only out of here if POJ pushes him out.



No? The only core names I've seen people throw out in here are Hornqvist, Rust and Dumoulin.

I don't think there's even a Status Quo camp right now.

I think there's "We Must Change But Not X" camp, a "We Must Change So Everything's On The Table" camp, and a "We Must Change And They Won't Change Enough" camp.

If we must change, I suspect I'm in the latter. This team's engine is the relationship between Crosby, Malkin and Letang with Sullivan. I don't see how trading Rust or whoever changes that.

But I don't think anyone's made a compelling argument for having to have a bigger change than colouring around the edges, other than that's how we've always done it. Is that how every team that's gone from playoff zeroes to heroes quickly done it? Surely if everything's on the table, that includes the method, right?



Honestly, I'm not 100% what I mean, because I'm not 100% sure what is happening that turns a good regular season roster into a post-season roster that looks like they'd rather not be there. But considering the big swing in performance there, and the extent to which they don't just look bad, they look like they don't care, I suspect a large part of it is some mental issue for the team, and that if you fix that mental aspect you fix a lot of the performance issues.

And I don't know where the mental issue is, but I'd suspect a lot of it is somewhere inside the relationship between Crosby, Malkin and Letang with Sullivan. Bluntly I'd be happier if he was gone like you're suggesting; but since he isn't, we're left seeing whether they can regain what's missing there.

You are aware that team made dramatic changes after firing Therrien, right? You know, when they traded Whitney for Kunitz and also added Guerin at the deadline.



You are aware that team made drastic changes after firing Johnston, right? You know, when they traded Scuderi for Daley and Hagelin for Perron, along with adding Schultz at the deadline and giving expanded roles to numerous young players.



So you really think trading Hornqvist wouldn't have a locker room impact? The guy that was JR's first acquisition and was a big role in the 2 cups? You really think that wouldn't make a difference?

Like I said, it is downright amazing that you're on board with firing the coach but making no significant roster changes. Just scapegoating the coach, that's all you're doing. I don't know if you're in the "fire JR" crowd, but I also do find it funny that there is a crowd that simultaneously says "fire JR because he has done a bad job and will run this team into the ground" while acting like this roster isn't flawed and only needs to trim the fat.

Hopefully it was just his ankle not being 100%, he didnt look himself against MTL, especially game 1. He basically becomes Rob Scuderi if he loses a step or 2....

Im not sure if it was by design but Letang was very tame in the playoffs. He played great defensively, but hes really our only true OFD, and I think offense from the back end was the difference in the series.

So far trading guys to have a locker room impact has made playoff results worse.
 

Peat

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The only "wake up the locker room" trade JR has made with the Penguins with Sullivan as coach was shipping out Hagelin. I think that's more "inconclusive" than "trading locker room guys makes playoff results worse".

Kessel left partly due to locker room issues so he counts too.

If you don’t want to waste Sid and G anymore, fire Sullivan

This is probably true. It's not entirely his fault, but enough is, and he's the least important major part of how that locker room comports itself mentally, so out he should go.

Here's hoping the assistants change is a big moment for him and he gets his mojo back - it's either that or hope the stars quit on him so the change comes soon enough.
 
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Peat

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I consider that much more "feuding with Sullivan and Malkin" than "wake up the locker room".

Still an impact on the locker room - and I'm slightly puzzled that disruptive behaviour isn't included for Kessel, but Neal does count as a wake up call based on all I've heard here - but if you want to only count just trading guys everybody loves as a wake up call, fair enough.
 

Empoleon8771

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Changing the topics from beating the "we should blow it up" dead horse, let's say that JR ends up not being able to trade Bjugstad this off-season and he refuses to just be LTIRed for next year. Would you plan on him being a regular or would he basically just replace Rodrigues' role until his contract expires? I've been trying to think of where Bjugstad when healthy can even fit on this team, but I just don't see a spot for him. But they may not really have a choice on that.

Still an impact on the locker room - and I'm slightly puzzled that disruptive behaviour isn't included for Kessel, but Neal does count as a wake up call based on all I've heard here - but if you want to only count just trading guys everybody loves as a wake up call, fair enough.

Like I said when Neal was brought up last, he was a douchebag and was a poster child for all of the problems of the Penguins at that time. I also think the core liked him (I never heard the "he punched Kunitz" story), so that deal falls into the shake-up category for me. To me, that was the deal that signaled that the Penguins were leaving the DB era Penguins (entitled, lazy, one-dimensional, uncontrollable, ect), and I think that was the point of the trade.
 

Peat

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Changing the topics from beating the "we should blow it up" dead horse, let's say that JR ends up not being able to trade Bjugstad this off-season and he refuses to just be LTIRed for next year. Would you plan on him being a regular or would he basically just replace Rodrigues' role until his contract expires? I've been trying to think of where Bjugstad when healthy can even fit on this team, but I just don't see a spot for him. But they may not really have a choice on that.

That's up to Nick Bjugstad. He mightn't be the greatest system fit, but he's a good enough player that if he's fit and wants it, he should be able to steal a place somewhere in the line up, particularly given his versatility. If he can't claim a spot - then expensive 13th forward until we find a team who desperately needs forward numbers for the rest of the season enough to take him it is. If he can - no worries. Not gonna tell him to do one if he starts scoring at a 20 goal pace in the bottom six again.

Like I said when Neal was brought up last, he was a douchebag and was a poster child for all of the problems of the Penguins at that time. I also think the core liked him (I never heard the "he punched Kunitz" story), so that deal falls into the shake-up category for me. To me, that was the deal that signaled that the Penguins were leaving the DB era Penguins (entitled, lazy, one-dimensional, uncontrollable, ect), and I think that was the point of the trade.

Fair enough - just hear a bunch of different Neal stuff here.
 
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Ugene Magic

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Changing the topics from beating the "we should blow it up" dead horse, let's say that JR ends up not being able to trade Bjugstad this off-season and he refuses to just be LTIRed for next year. Would you plan on him being a regular or would he basically just replace Rodrigues' role until his contract expires? I've been trying to think of where Bjugstad when healthy can even fit on this team, but I just don't see a spot for him. But they may not really have a choice on that.



Like I said when Neal was brought up last, he was a douchebag and was a poster child for all of the problems of the Penguins at that time. I also think the core liked him (I never heard the "he punched Kunitz" story), so that deal falls into the shake-up category for me. To me, that was the deal that signaled that the Penguins were leaving the DB era Penguins (entitled, lazy, one-dimensional, uncontrollable, ect), and I think that was the point of the trade.

You could move things around to make him fit. I'm not putting him in the 3c role or any of the top 3 line RW spots either.

Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
McCann, 3c, Kapanen <--sign Haula for 3c
TB, Bjugstad, Tanev

Most important for me is TB gets reduced roles at center for faceoff reasons.
 
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Empoleon8771

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You could move things around to make him fit. I'm not putting him in the 3c role or any of the top 3 line RW spots either.

Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
McCann, 3c, Kapanen <--sign Haula for 3c
TB, Bjugstad, Tanev

Most important for me is TB gets reduced roles at center for faceoff reasons.

I'd sooner make the 4th line Tanev-Blueger-Bjugstad, since Bjugstad has spent significant time on the wing. That idea is fairly interesting, Bjugstad himself is an analytics darling and he can take faceoffs for Blueger if you were concerned about that.
 

Peat

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I'd sooner make the 4th line Tanev-Blueger-Bjugstad, since Bjugstad has spent significant time on the wing. That idea is fairly interesting, Bjugstad himself is an analytics darling and he can take faceoffs for Blueger if you were concerned about that.

Bjugstad might even convert on some of the chances Blueger and Tanev make.
 

ownal

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You could move things around to make him fit. I'm not putting him in the 3c role or any of the top 3 line RW spots either.

Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist
Zucker, Malkin, Rust
McCann, 3c, Kapanen <--sign Haula for 3c
TB, Bjugstad, Tanev

Most important for me is TB gets reduced roles at center for faceoff reasons.

Sad thing is I think the third line will be Sheary - McCann - Kap. Murray for Tierney would actually make for a great third line.
 
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Ugene Magic

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Doesn't really square with Rutherford's stated intent to get a more defensive 3C and have McCann on the LW - or get Poulin into the team as quickly as possible either.

Poulin will probably be brought in in the adjust phase during the season or due to the usual injury cases.
 

Peat

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Poulin will probably be brought in in the adjust phase during the season or due to the usual injury cases.

Can't be - he's not old enough to be assigned to the AHL yet, he's juniors of NHL. If he doesn't claim a spot out of camp, he's not involved until the end of the junior season.
 
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Empoleon8771

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Yeah, the Kapanen addition made Sheary as good as gone. You can point out:

1. The only justification that you can make for keeping Sheary is you want him on RW with Crosby, but Kapanen will do that and he's just better than Sheary
2. They don't have the money for Sheary with the addition of Kapanen
3. If you go out of your way to make money to re-sign Sheary, you're spitting in the face of the changes you say you want to make.

I already think that some of the ideas thrown out in here aren't far enough with roster changes and don't mesh with what JR is saying. Re-signing Sheary takes that to a whole different level, that's actively deciding to keep the roster the same instead of inaction leading to the roster staying the same.
 
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Ugene Magic

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Can't be - he's not old enough to be assigned to the AHL yet, he's juniors of NHL. If he doesn't claim a spot out of camp, he's not involved until the end of the junior season.

Gotcha. Then I wouldn't expect them to keep him up regardless. Not any longer than the allowable amount before he's stuck up here. He'd have to pull a Guentzel type start.
 

Peat

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Gotcha. Then I wouldn't expect them to keep him up regardless. Not any longer than the allowable amount before he's stuck up here. He'd have to pull a Guentzel type start.

Normally I'd agree but with Rutherford constantly going on about the need to be younger, the need to shed cap, how he expects Poulin to challenge - I think the bar will be lower. As long as Poulin can stick in the lineup, I think there's a chance they'll keep him and gamble on him continuing to develop through the season.

And while that does seem a rather reckless thing to do with a prospect's development, if Rutherford feels like he's not got long left before the window closes, I'm not sure he'll care; the kid coming good in 4 years due to careful developing does him no good.
 

Empoleon8771

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Bjugstad might even convert on some of the chances Blueger and Tanev make.

Who is even competing with Bjugstad for that spot to begin the year? You have Lafferty, who probably isn't that good himself, and Poulin, who I'm skeptical the Penguins would want to play on the 4th line and waste an ELC year (although JR also said he only cares about winning in the short term, so maybe that won't be a concern). Until ZAR comes back, I don't really see anyone who would definitely beat out Bjugstad for that spot.
 

Gurglesons

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Who is even competing with Bjugstad for that spot to begin the year? You have Lafferty, who probably isn't that good himself, and Poulin, who I'm skeptical the Penguins would want to play on the 4th line and waste an ELC year (although JR also said he only cares about winning in the short term, so maybe that won't be a concern). Until ZAR comes back, I don't really see anyone who would definitely beat out Bjugstad for that spot.

I'm assuming whoever we sign in free agency.
 

Peat

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Who is even competing with Bjugstad for that spot to begin the year? You have Lafferty, who probably isn't that good himself, and Poulin, who I'm skeptical the Penguins would want to play on the 4th line and waste an ELC year (although JR also said he only cares about winning in the short term, so maybe that won't be a concern). Until ZAR comes back, I don't really see anyone who would definitely beat out Bjugstad for that spot.

Lafferty, possibly Simon, maaaaaybe Poulin pushing McCann down, always could be a trade or signing as yet unseen, I guess you could thrown out O'Connor/Angello/fit Bjorkqvist as wildcards... it is thin opposition for now, although still opposition.
 

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Sad thing is I think the third line will be Sheary - McCann - Kap. Murray for Tierney would actually make for a great third line.

Except Sheary isn't returning and Kapanen won't be on the third line. We can revisit line combinations once the new season starts if and only if we actually see Kapanen relegated to the 3rd line.

Those of you insisting on putting him on the 3rd to start the season are doing nothing but fooling yourselves. Just because a single tweet from a single person said he was a 3rd line RW does not mean he is a 3rd line RW, at least from now until he is actually forced out of the position.
 

ownal

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Except Sheary isn't returning and Kapanen won't be on the third line. We can revisit line combinations once the new season starts if and only if we actually see Kapanen relegated to the 3rd line.

Those of you insisting on putting him on the 3rd to start the season are doing nothing but fooling yourselves. Just because a single tweet from a single person said he was a 3rd line RW does not mean he is a 3rd line RW, at least from now until he is actually forced out of the position.

I want him on the first line. Horny won't play with Crosby. What type of center does Horny need to play with to be most effective?
 

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Normally I'd agree but with Rutherford constantly going on about the need to be younger, the need to shed cap, how he expects Poulin to challenge - I think the bar will be lower. As long as Poulin can stick in the lineup, I think there's a chance they'll keep him and gamble on him continuing to develop through the season.

And while that does seem a rather reckless thing to do with a prospect's development, if Rutherford feels like he's not got long left before the window closes, I'm not sure he'll care; the kid coming good in 4 years due to careful developing does him no good.

I definitely think the leash with these young players will be longer than in past seasons. I don't think Sullivan is going to get the freedom to just not play them / send them back only to call up Angello or Johnson. I think that luxury is no longer an option.

The only thing I don't know is if the sheding of salary, for example Hornqvist, will happen now or after the season begins. Realistically, you'd want to see what happens with a guy like Poulin before you make major changes like moving Horny. But once the season starts...really tough to make those early trades.

Who is even competing with Bjugstad for that spot to begin the year? You have Lafferty, who probably isn't that good himself, and Poulin, who I'm skeptical the Penguins would want to play on the 4th line and waste an ELC year (although JR also said he only cares about winning in the short term, so maybe that won't be a concern). Until ZAR comes back, I don't really see anyone who would definitely beat out Bjugstad for that spot.

I'm not sure anyone is really. Perhaps a young roster player they get back for Murray or in another swap? Tough to judge lines right now outside of the top 6 as I 100% expect more moves to be made.
 

Empoleon8771

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I'm assuming whoever we sign in free agency.

I don't think they would sign anyone before dumping Bjugstad. They don't have the money to be a player in free agency while keeping Bjugstad.

Lafferty, possibly Simon, maaaaaybe Poulin pushing McCann down, always could be a trade or signing as yet unseen, I guess you could thrown out O'Connor/Angello/fit Bjorkqvist as wildcards... it is thin opposition for now, although still opposition.

I think Bjorkqvist is probably going to spend the year in Finland. I think one of Simon or McCann is good to mention, but I feel like McCann gets traded if he doesn't have a clear spot in the top-9.
 
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