Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Cole's House of Pain

[Ugene Magic]

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Rutherford eyeing free agency to acquire impact player. Is it feasible?

spoiler alert: not feasible lol....

Oh, it's feasible, but you got to be willing to pay the price.

If there is a guy to help this team in a impact way how can anyone overlook the man crush Mario and company have on Laine.

That screams impact player. He fixes the LW wall on the PP. At 22/23 he really stretches the window. Maybe he's gone before hand, maybe not. Dependent on how far JR/ownership want to change. As we all know they'd target a significant RD in return, but they are equally hurting on the LD as well. RD is just the unified first want anywhere. I don't know why Caroline would balk at Nec and Pesce since that's a clear win in their favor.

How far would you go to extend the window here?

Tough decision.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The comment about "play style" wasn't me saying play style doesn't matter, it was just me saying "I'm not saying Jarnkrok and McCann play the same way". Jarnkrok is more of a jack of all trades kind of guy, he just has the same ability with the same versatility as McCann (great 3rd liner to fringe 2nd/3rd liner that can play any position in any role). I don't know of a great comparable to Jarnkrok that has played for the Penguins in recent years. I think Cullen is probably the closest I can come up with.



Eh I really don't know about this logic. Like I said above, it really depends on what you think of the Penguins in say 3+ years, because that's really when the impact of the trade will be fully felt.



I feel like you'd have to add an asset that is on par or more valuable than Poulin to get Danault.

I don't think Poulin on his own has significant value beyond where he was drafted at, because prospects in Poulin's position don't often get traded alone. If they get traded, they get moved in bigger deals, like POJ and Galchenyuk for Kessel.

Yea my point was I’d rather do Poulin+similar asset for a better player, rather than Poulin for Jarnkrok.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Oh, it's feasible, but you got to be willing to pay the price.

If there is a guy to help this team in a impact way how can anyone overlook the man crush Mario and company have on Laine.

That screams impact player. He fixes the LW wall on the PP. At 22/23 he really stretches the window. Maybe he's gone before hand, maybe not. Dependent on how far JR/ownership want to change. As we all know they'd target a significant RD in return, but they are equally hurting on the LD as well. RD is just the unified first want anywhere. I don't know why Caroline would balk at Nec and Pesce since that's a clear win in their favor.

How far would you go to extend the window here?

Tough decision.

Laine has unlimited potiential but also same problems that led to Phil’s lack of fit/demise here.

I think everyone drools a little over that shot on our PP and next to Sid or Geno (including me), but can we afford to cripple ourselves in terms of assets for someone that may or may not excel playing the Pens style?

 

[Peat]

Yea my point was I’d rather do Poulin+similar asset for a better player, rather than Poulin for Jarnkrok.

With an extension. To hell with doing that for a rental.

But in general yes. Save up for difference makers instead of nickels and dimes on nickel and dime players.

Laine has unlimited potiential but also same problems that led to Phil’s lack of fit/demise here.

I think everyone drools a little over that shot on our PP and next to Sid or Geno (including me), but can we afford to cripple ourselves in terms of assets for someone that may or may not excel playing the Pens style?

We don't have the assets. I feel pretty sure of that. And yeah, the likelihood of him not working here is pretty high.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Seeing the top 4 and how this coaching staff loves the idea of Matheson-Ceci (Pettersson-Marino makes me want to throw up, f*** I hate Pettersson so much), I dunno mate.

I will never understand how such an inoffensive, competent young player could engender so much hate.

He's a lanky 23 year old who all available numbers show is pretty damn solid at both ends.

I posted a proposal on the main board that I'm curious to see if people here would do. Would you do Poulin to Nashville for Jarnkrok? Jarnkrok has a downright steal of a contract at 2 years at $2 million, and is a righty C/RW that put up a 40 point pace last year.

It's definitely a deal I feel the Penguins will regret in 3 years, but it definitely helps their win-now window to get such a good value player in Jarnkrok. Based on the Comeau, Kapanen and Goodrow trades from the last year, I don't think it's an overpayment either.

Decent idea, but the Seattle draft throws a wrench in the works and I'd rather hunt for bigger game.

I don't think he's particularly thought it through. Wilson that is. The cap space is there if Rutherford wants to be drastic. Letang's the obvious name, but if you lose Zucker and Pettersson for no money back, you have 8.5m spare (assuming POJ or Pettersson to replace Pettersson) and that right there is impact shopping today. I admittedly haven't particularly thought about the effects of fitting in Marino's contract, or possible rises for Blueger, but I think it works.

The bigger thing is the list of potential targets but there's enough. And it doesn't necessarily have to be next summer either. Could be one after. Etc.etc.

Yep. For some reason, Wilson seems to have ignored or missed explicitly what Rutherford said:

“The key to this as we go forward a couple of years down the road will be plugging in an impact player into the lineup. Maybe a couple of impact players. Not just a good player, but an impact guy."

So I don't know why the hell he'd narrow the aperture to next UFA season, because JR made sure to mention that it wasn't.

2022: Barkov and Jones
2023: MacKinnon and Pastrnak

Obviously no guarantees that any of them would come here, but that's big game hunting we could accommodate salary-wise if we wanted to. And all of them are either on clubs that have trouble retaining stars, have an aging core, or have a close personal relationship with Crosby. Maybe Sid can finally parlay his Nova Scotia training camp into a Lebron-esque recruitment tool. Either way, I like that JR is putting this message out early.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Laine has unlimited potiential but also same problems that led to Phil’s lack of fit/demise here.

I think everyone drools a little over that shot on our PP and next to Sid or Geno (including me), but can we afford to cripple ourselves in terms of assets for someone that may or may not excel playing the Pens style?

Like Phil, sometimes necessary evils are required and then you adjust to fill around that model. Again, like Phil, you are not bringing him in to be about defense. You consider his offensive output is greater than the negatives. (he only had 1 negative season of 4)I don't know how he'd have an issue with the Pens style. It's pretty much right up the alley for a offensive player like him.

Cripple the assets or just rob Peter to Pay Paul. They could go a couple of ways on that front.

Scary, I know.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I don’t know how much salary will rise either w players owing owners money over coming years. Or maybe that causes the top guys to demand even more, I’m not sure. But look at Pietrangelo (I get NV is no-income tax.)

But- I think with the way our books look in 2-3 years it’s ridiculous for RW or anyone to say something isn’t feasible.

 

[Andy99]

I will never understand how such an inoffensive, competent young player could engender so much hate.

He's a lanky 23 year old who all available numbers show is pretty damn solid at both ends.



Decent idea, but the Seattle draft throws a wrench in the works and I'd rather hunt for bigger game.



Yep. For some reason, Wilson seems to have ignored or missed explicitly what Rutherford said:

“The key to this as we go forward a couple of years down the road will be plugging in an impact player into the lineup. Maybe a couple of impact players. Not just a good player, but an impact guy."


So I don't know why the hell he'd narrow the aperture to next UFA season, because JR made sure to mention that it wasn't.

2022: Barkov and Jones
2023: MacKinnon and Pastrnak

Obviously no guarantees that any of them would come here, but that's big game hunting we could accommodate salary-wise if we wanted to. And all of them are either on clubs that have trouble retaining stars, have an aging core, or have a close personal relationship with Crosby. Maybe Sid can finally parlay his Nova Scotia training camp into a Lebron-esque recruitment tool. Either way, I like that JR is putting this message out early.

And none of those guys will be in their mid-20s..the youngest would be Pastrnak at 27...probably the only possible candidate if we have $10+ mil to pay him...doesn’t make sense to bring anyone older than this into the fold as they would be exiting their primes...prime for a forward is 24-26...

 

[Andy99]

I don’t know how much salary will rise either w players owing owners money over coming years. Or maybe that causes the top guys to demand even more, I’m not sure. But look at Pietrangelo (I get NV is no-income tax.)

But- I think with the way our books look in 2-3 years it’s ridiculous for RW or anyone to say something isn’t feasible.

again, it’s not feasible in free agency if you want someone aged 26 or younger...

 

[Ugene Magic]

I will never understand how such an inoffensive, competent young player could engender so much hate.

He's a lanky 23 year old who all available numbers show is pretty damn solid at both ends.



Decent idea, but the Seattle draft throws a wrench in the works and I'd rather hunt for bigger game.



Yep. For some reason, Wilson seems to have ignored or missed explicitly what Rutherford said:

“The key to this as we go forward a couple of years down the road will be plugging in an impact player into the lineup. Maybe a couple of impact players. Not just a good player, but an impact guy."

So I don't know why the hell he'd narrow the aperture to next UFA season, because JR made sure to mention that it wasn't.

2022: Barkov and Jones
2023: MacKinnon and Pastrnak

Obviously no guarantees that any of them would come here, but that's big game hunting we could accommodate salary-wise if we wanted to. And all of them are either on clubs that have trouble retaining stars, have an aging core, or have a close personal relationship with Crosby. Maybe Sid can finally parlay his Nova Scotia training camp into a Lebron-esque recruitment tool. Either way, I like that JR is putting this message out early.

That changes things, then. (No Laine then) And if you are cutting off the most impactful players, it's just speak of they don't know who's going to be there and what teams are having issues with what players, but they plan on going hard for best available.

 

[PensandCaps]

Oh, it's feasible, but you got to be willing to pay the price.

If there is a guy to help this team in a impact way how can anyone overlook the man crush Mario and company have on Laine.

That screams impact player. He fixes the LW wall on the PP. At 22/23 he really stretches the window. Maybe he's gone before hand, maybe not. Dependent on how far JR/ownership want to change. As we all know they'd target a significant RD in return, but they are equally hurting on the LD as well. RD is just the unified first want anywhere. I don't know why Caroline would balk at Nec and Pesce since that's a clear win in their favor.

How far would you go to extend the window here?

Tough decision.

I'd rather have Pesce and Necas.

Pesce is a Great Dman on a fantastic deal. Necas has great potential, already had a solid rookie year.

If you acquire Laine you also have to lose someone due to cap. It's not a good value move for Carolina

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And none of those guys will be in their mid-20s..the youngest would be Pastrnak at 27...probably the only possible candidate if we have $10+ mil to pay him...doesn’t make sense to bring anyone older than this into the fold as they would be exiting their primes...prime for a forward is 24-26...

28 would fit in that range - suggesting it doesn't is splitting hairs. And when you consider that players generally have to be a minimum of 27 before reaching UFA status, you can safely assume that's exactly what JR meant.

 

[Tom Hanks]

28 would fit in that range - suggesting it doesn't is splitting hairs. And when you consider that players generally have to be a minimum of 27 before reaching UFA status, you can safely assume that's exactly what JR meant.

JR doesn’t always know the rules

 

[Peat]

28 would fit in that range - suggesting it doesn't is splitting hairs. And when you consider that players generally have to be a minimum of 27 before reaching UFA status, you can safely assume that's exactly what JR meant.

Yeah. And this is fine. Getting hung on the semantics after making the initial point that these won't be 25-26 year olds makes no sense. Guys like Pasta or whoever will have plenty of road left.

Would chasing Dubois (in whatever version of reality the Jackets trade him here) or Laine or whoever make more sense? Maybe, if the right guy comes up and the price is something we can do. But that's very unlikely. So's drafting high, at least for the foreseeable.

So hoping to nab Barkov or MacKinnon or Hamilton it is.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Yeah. And this is fine. Getting hung on the semantics after making the initial point that these won't be 25-26 year olds makes no sense. Guys like Pasta or whoever will have plenty of road left.

Would chasing Dubois (in whatever version of reality the Jackets trade him here) or Laine or whoever make more sense? Maybe, if the right guy comes up and the price is something we can do. But that's very unlikely. So's drafting high, at least for the foreseeable.

So hoping to nab Barkov or MacKinnon or Hamilton it is.

Really though. I have a hard time imagining anyone here, or any GM, turning their nose up at Barkov, MacKinnon, Jones, or Pastrnak because they're 27-28 instead of 26 when our stars are 35-36.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'd rather have Pesce and Necas.

Pesce is a Great Dman on a fantastic deal. Necas has great potential, already had a solid rookie year.

If you acquire Laine you also have to lose someone due to cap. It's not a good value move for Carolina

Not surmountable to do, and they have the means to adjust next season as well. It's also not out of the realm to be handled in the trade itself. Those were just the initial asks, or the main pieces. It can expand.

 

[Andy99]

Really though. I have a hard time imagining anyone here, or any GM, turning their nose up at Barkov, MacKinnon, Jones, or Pastrnak because they're 27-28 instead of 26 when our stars are 35-36.

it depends...If you want an impact player here for 6-7 years, then yeah, you want a younger player...those 28 year old players like Barkov will still want a 7 year deal...and they could get it from younger teams looking for an impact vet...Pens will be in a different position than those teams...should they be signing that player through his age 35 season? I dunno...

 

[Pens x]

I wouldn’t move Poulin for Jarnkrok. I feel like that’s a move you do once the kid’s progress has stalled.

If I trade Poulin while his value is still very high, I’d expect someone like Danault back (maybe we add but point is made).

Jarnkrok is not necessarily a bad player but feels underwhelming for a D+2 1st rounder who’s done everything right.

If you wait until Poulin stalls, you aren’t getting anything in return. How is Poulin’s value “still really high” right now?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If you wait until Poulin stalls, you aren’t getting anything in return. How is Poulin’s value “still really high” right now?

how isn’t it?

 

[K Fleur]

I like Jarnkrok, but Poulin for him feels like it could end up a poor man’s Forsberg for Erat.

 

[Peat]

it depends...If you want an impact player here for 6-7 years, then yeah, you want a younger player...those 28 year old players like Barkov will still want a 7 year deal...and they could get it from younger teams looking for an impact vet...Pens will be in a different position than those teams...should they be signing that player through his age 35 season? I dunno...

I think that if you compare Barkov to Getzlaf or Bergeron, then he'll be an an impact player until 33 - so five years - and not a bad guy to have around for another two in the most probable scenarios. I don't have a huge issue with that. Unless a team is really rancid, I'll always back taking chances on today rather than worrying in five years. Things change fast in this league.

Which also means I don't know where we'd be when we have a chance to do so. But I think Rutherford has done a good job of building a young top 6 and top 4 around the stars that can be the right complimentary pieces for a good 5-8 years. If that plays out, then if in 2 years Malkin's going but Sid's still doing great, why wouldn't you sign Barkov to keep giving Sid chances? Or see if you can replace Letang with Hamilton to keep that 1-2 punch on RD rolling for more years to give Malkin and Crosby the best chance? Etc.etc.

 

[Ugene Magic]

it depends...If you want an impact player here for 6-7 years, then yeah, you want a younger player...those 28 year old players like Barkov will still want a 7 year deal...and they could get it from younger teams looking for an impact vet...Pens will be in a different position than those teams...should they be signing that player through his age 35 season? I dunno...

People look to the Pens being that of Detroit recent model falling off, but Detroit had 2 fazes, one where Detroit won a cup in 2002 and had their core retire a few seasons after winning in their mid 30's moving into their next faze with Datsyuk and Zetterberg who were already in their mid/late 20's Datsyuk being 28 and Zetterberg was 26 at the changing of the guard from Yzerman's, Shanahan's and Hull's of the days of winning cups. The only thing is they drafted into their 2nd stint in the late 2000's success.

Point being, there's nothing to suggest they can't do the same as Detroit the first go around leading into this faze of Sid's and Geno's mid 30's with addition of guys in their primes.

 

[ColePens]

If the Pens want to make a run late in G/Sid's career.. they need ELC performing players. You can't trade them all. We need ELC performing players.

 

[Pens x]

how isn’t it?

He has never played in an NHL game and likely won’t make a team that is desperate for a right winger. If he plays in some games and produces, then it’s another story.

 

[K Fleur]

If the Pens want to make a run late in G/Sid's career.. they need ELC performing players. You can't trade them all. We need ELC performing players.

I don’t think it can be overstated how important players like Sheary/Rust/Kuhnackl/Wilson were to the back to back cup teams.

Whether they were producing or not they brought an energy and hunger that this team hasn’t had for years now.