Salary Cap: Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Banana Pancakes

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SEALBound

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How does everyone feel about Jack Johnson?

Have we discussed him yet?
 

Dipsy Doodle

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Rust was more productive than McCann at 5v5. McCann needs to take a step forwards there to maintain his production assuming his EN/PK numbers don't stay the same.

Tbh, based solely on last season's offensive numbers, Rust and McCann would be two of the last wingers I'd be looking to put in the top 6 - only Tanev would come below.

McCann had higher P/60 and G/60 in his limited time here, and that's despite spending far less of his time in the top 6 than Rust. Sid's line also performed better with McCann...without the benefit of years to develop chemistry.

We both know what value Rust and McCann represent in the top 6. Fast, two-way players who can puck hound and be one of the first back on d. I don't know which of Rust, McCann, or Kahun will be used in that role this year, but I'd prioritize McCann over Rust to start the year based on what he showed last season.

So Hagelin is a prodigal son around here and Rust has suddenly become “too expensive to afford” despite us paying 7 mil to our 5 and 6 D.

Hagelin served a role we desperately missed last year (speedy two-way complement), especially because the brass refused to use Rust on LW. Now we have 3 players (McCann, Kahun, Tanev) who could conceivably fill that hole, and Rust is less durable than any of them and coming off his 2nd straight poor playoffs.

Ideally we move JJ without having to touch Rust, but I don't know if JR is willing to take the hit.

We agree there. We'll see.

It's not unreasonable. I just think there is too much criticism of Rust and I feel the need to defend his honor for some reason. The annual off season tradition of @pixiesfanyo and Shady Machine against the world thing I guess.

Can't speak for anyone else, but my arguments against Rust are only in the context of JR not being willing to do what it takes to move JJ, and we gotta cut the fat somewhere.

I think the top six should obviously be:

Jake - Sid - Kahun
Galchenyuk - Malkin - Rust

Might very well shake out that way. But I had the impression that they wanted to try Gooch on RW to exploit his one-timer a la Neal.
 

Riptide

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@Andy99

Only made it part way through before I stopped. Basically looks at every pick Shero or JR traded in picks for player deals and who they could have drafted with those picks. For who was taken with that exact pick, for the 30 picks following that pick, and for any player in the rest of the draft.

And with the exception of Barzal at 16 from the Perron trade, most of those players are pretty meh. T.Bertuzzi and Dzingel are the only other 2 standouts. Then it goes to fantasy land where we somehow would have drafted Stone, Gaudreau, Point and Arvidsson.

What happens when an NHL team goes for it ... every single...
 

HandshakeLine

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@Andy99

Only made it part way through before I stopped. Basically looks at every pick Shero or JR traded in picks for player deals and who they could have drafted with those picks. For who was taken with that exact pick, for the 30 picks following that pick, and for any player in the rest of the draft.

And with the exception of Barzal at 16 from the Perron trade, most of those players are pretty meh. T.Bertuzzi and Dzingel are the only other 2 standouts. Then it goes to fantasy land where we somehow would have drafted Stone, Gaudreau, Point and Arvidsson.

What happens when an NHL team goes for it ... every single...

Yikes, that's a bad article, you're not kidding there. I hate that I agree with Mark Madden on anything, but...
 

Turin

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@Andy99

Only made it part way through before I stopped. Basically looks at every pick Shero or JR traded in picks for player deals and who they could have drafted with those picks. For who was taken with that exact pick, for the 30 picks following that pick, and for any player in the rest of the draft.

And with the exception of Barzal at 16 from the Perron trade, most of those players are pretty meh. T.Bertuzzi and Dzingel are the only other 2 standouts. Then it goes to fantasy land where we somehow would have drafted Stone, Gaudreau, Point and Arvidsson.

What happens when an NHL team goes for it ... every single...

I hate the philosophy of analysis regarding most of these pseudo-analytic “progressive” analysts who think the point of running a team is mitigating all possible risk and building an all-star team, and not winning the f***ing Cup. There is no guarantee that fantasy land Pittsburgh with all those all star forwards is better, can even exist with the Cap, or has any Cups.
 
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Peat

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McCann had higher P/60 and G/60 in his limited time here, and that's despite spending far less of his time in the top 6 than Rust. Sid's line also performed better with McCann...without the benefit of years to develop chemistry.

We both know what value Rust and McCann represent in the top 6. Fast, two-way players who can puck hound and be one of the first back on d. I don't know which of Rust, McCann, or Kahun will be used in that role this year, but I'd prioritize McCann over Rust to start the year based on what he showed last season.

That there is the difference between 5v5 and ES/all strengths. Rust 5v5 pace over the season was 6 points higher than McCanns (30 vs 24) and was .37 better in terms of p.60. Switch to ES and the tale changes dramatically because of McCann's Grabner impression. And while that was valuable and would be valuable going forwards, it doesn't really qualify McCann to be playing top 6.

Better line stats does, and McCann's are generally better at 5v5 although that's complicated by Rust + Crosby having insane PDO together. Not always hugely better though.

In any case - Sid performed better with neither in sight.
 
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Gurglesons

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That there is the difference between 5v5 and ES/all strengths. Rust 5v5 pace over the season was 6 points higher than McCanns (30 vs 24) and was .37 better in terms of p.60. Switch to ES and the tale changes dramatically because of McCann's Grabner impression. And while that was valuable and would be valuable going forwards, it doesn't really qualify McCann to be playing top 6.

Better line stats does, and McCann's are generally better at 5v5 although that's complicated by Rust + Crosby having insane PDO together. Not always hugely better though.

In any case - Sid performed better with neither in sight.

And I’d say this is where actual footage is needed because statistically Simon crushed it with Sid and I’d argue out of all three they had the worst chemistry.

Also, I think we are getting a little overboard here in the analytics. Rust and Simon both had solid stat lines analytically with Sid and Jake as a line. Just because one is better doesn’t mean Jake - Sid - Rust wasn’t good.
 
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Riptide

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I hate the philosophy of analysis regarding most of these pseudo-analytic “progressive” analysts who think the point of running a team is mitigating all possible risk and building an all-star team, and not winning the ****ing Cup. There is no guarantee that fantasy land Pittsburgh with all those all star forwards is better, can even exist with the Cap, or has any Cups.

Or that those players would even develop to be who they are today in a different development system. Some probably would, but that doesn't mean everyone would.
 

Peat

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And I’d say this is where actual footage is needed because statistically Simon crushed it with Sid and I’d argue out of all three they had the worst chemistry.

Also, I think we are getting a little overboard here in the analytics. Rust and Simon both had solid stat lines analytically with Sid and Jake as a line. Just because one is better doesn’t mean Jake - Sid - Rust wasn’t good.

I wish we had video for this argument - personally, I thought that Simon showed a lot of chemistry with Sid and really got how he wanted to play the game.

And one can never go overboard with the analytics, but it is wise to point out that we're arguing between amazing and very good here; I wish there were stats where you could easily compare line combinations, as I'm betting all of them would show up very highly by NHL standards.
 

Riptide

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And I’d say this is where actual footage is needed because statistically Simon crushed it with Sid and I’d argue out of all three they had the worst chemistry.

Also, I think we are getting a little overboard here in the analytics. Rust and Simon both had solid stat lines analytically with Sid and Jake as a line. Just because one is better doesn’t mean Jake - Sid - Rust wasn’t good.

If one were to go by all the comments about how brutal having Rust on L1 is (either in these threads or the GDTs) then I'd actually question how "good" they actually were with Rust there, and what Rust did to help that line.
 

Jacob

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Guess we're going to start seeing the trend of depth guys on insanely long term deals.
 

Gurglesons

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If one were to go by all the comments about how brutal having Rust on L1 is (either in these threads or the GDTs) then I'd actually question how "good" they actually were with Rust there, and what Rust did to help that line.

I’ve never complained about Sid and Rust, but I and some others have always argued Rust with Malkin is the move.
 
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Riptide

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I'm still struggling with the concept that Dupuis and especially were leeches off of Crosby, but Rust is some amazing piece for him.
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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And I’d say this is where actual footage is needed because statistically Simon crushed it with Sid and I’d argue out of all three they had the worst chemistry.

Also, I think we are getting a little overboard here in the analytics. Rust and Simon both had solid stat lines analytically with Sid and Jake as a line. Just because one is better doesn’t mean Jake - Sid - Rust wasn’t good.

This is the key takeaway from last year:
Whoever was good with Jake/Sid probably had little to do with whoever that 3rd wheel was and more if Jake/Sid were bringing it that particular night (and they indeed did)

So if you're basing it on last year's results, whoever we throw on RW won't make that line appreciably better or worse
But then you wonder if Sid/Jake can duplicate what was a fantastic year- is it repeatable?
 
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