GDT: PIT @ DET I 7:30 EST I NHL Network

Lampedampe

Registered User
Feb 26, 2015
2,135
751
A win against the pens and people are complaining? If there is one match up I wish wings would win everytime it'd be vs the pens.

They're not gonna lose every game so might aswell cherish the fact they beat the pens of all teams.
 
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Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
It just pisses me off, going to a Red Wings fan forum and seeing everyone is upset that we beat the pants off Crosby and Co.

The league needs to fix that.
Any ideas?

Some things are irreconcilable.

You don't want bad teams to stay in the basement forever. That's bad for the team and the league.

You don't want teams to tank on purpose. What other way is there for bad teams to get good other than giving bad teams some advantage for being bad?

I'm not saying 100% parity, but at least having ways to dig yourself out would be good. As it stands, good teams often get first pick of the litter when it comes to free agents. Good teams have the pieces to trade away for other good pieces. Bad teams tend to get neither and will stay bad unless they get super lucky or get a very high pick. It is a pattern you see in many places. Power begets power, wealth begets wealth. The "runaway leader" problem is one that rears its head a lot and hockey is no different. Unless you implement something to counter it, you'd be waiting a long time for dumb chance to turn a team's fortunes around.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
It just pisses me off, going to a Red Wings fan forum and seeing everyone is upset that we beat the pants off Crosby and Co.

The league needs to fix that.

What else do you want the league to do?
They've already made finishing last a crapshoot.
They've already made the lottery open to 14 f***ing teams.
Personally, I'd love to make it open to 31 teams.

Team ----- ---- Balls in the lottery
Cup champ -- 1 = 0.08 percent
Finals loser -- 2
Semifinalist loser -- 3
Quarterfinalist loser - 4
First round loser - 5 - 0.4%
17th - 10 0.8% vs 1% today
18th - 20
19th - 30
20th - 40
21st - 50
22nd - 60
23rd -- 70
24th - 80
25th - 90
26th - 100 - 8.4%
27th - 110
28th - 120
29th - 130 - 11 %
30th - 140 - 11.8%
31st - 150 - 12.7% vs 18.5% today

Here's the sad truth, for you. Tanking is a way to control your destiny. And weakening a team's ability to tank effectively makes it harder for a team to get better.

Back in 03-04, an aging capitals team traded away Lang, Gonchar, Jagr, Bondra, Nylander, Konowalchuk and Battaglia.

They had an owner with money and should have been good, but they sucked.
So they sold everything, tanked and started over with Ovechkin.

It was a good choice. A deliberate choice.
It took 4 years of bad hockey to rebuild.
It's harder to make that choice today.
What if you finish dead last and get Andrew Ladd instead of Ovechkin?
That year you draft Backstrom, if you don't win the lottery, you're picking 7th instead, so mabe you get James Sheppard or Bryan Little instead.
But the flipside is, that year you drafted Pokulok, maybe you get lucky and get Jack Johnson.
 

pz29

Registered User
Jun 18, 2015
505
211
What else do you want the league to do?
They've already made finishing last a crapshoot.
They've already made the lottery open to 14 ****ing teams.
Personally, I'd love to make it open to 31 teams.

Team ----- ---- Balls in the lottery
Cup champ -- 1 = 0.08 percent
Finals loser -- 2
Semifinalist loser -- 3
Quarterfinalist loser - 4
First round loser - 5 - 0.4%
17th - 10 0.8% vs 1% today
18th - 20
19th - 30
20th - 40
21st - 50
22nd - 60
23rd -- 70
24th - 80
25th - 90
26th - 100 - 8.4%
27th - 110
28th - 120
29th - 130 - 11 %
30th - 140 - 11.8%
31st - 150 - 12.7% vs 18.5% today

Here's the sad truth, for you. Tanking is a way to control your destiny. And weakening a team's ability to tank effectively makes it harder for a team to get better.

Back in 03-04, an aging capitals team traded away Lang, Gonchar, Jagr, Bondra, Nylander, Konowalchuk and Battaglia.

They had an owner with money and should have been good, but they sucked.
So they sold everything, tanked and started over with Ovechkin.

It was a good choice. A deliberate choice.
It took 4 years of bad hockey to rebuild.
It's harder to make that choice today.
What if you finish dead last and get Andrew Ladd instead of Ovechkin?
That year you draft Backstrom, if you don't win the lottery, you're picking 7th instead, so mabe you get James Sheppard or Bryan Little instead.
But the flipside is, that year you drafted Pokulok, maybe you get lucky and get Jack Johnson.
What else do you want the league to do?
They've already made finishing last a crapshoot.
They've already made the lottery open to 14 ****ing teams.
Personally, I'd love to make it open to 31 teams.

Team ----- ---- Balls in the lottery
Cup champ -- 1 = 0.08 percent
Finals loser -- 2
Semifinalist loser -- 3
Quarterfinalist loser - 4
First round loser - 5 - 0.4%
17th - 10 0.8% vs 1% today
18th - 20
19th - 30
20th - 40
21st - 50
22nd - 60
23rd -- 70
24th - 80
25th - 90
26th - 100 - 8.4%
27th - 110
28th - 120
29th - 130 - 11 %
30th - 140 - 11.8%
31st - 150 - 12.7% vs 18.5% today

Here's the sad truth, for you. Tanking is a way to control your destiny. And weakening a team's ability to tank effectively makes it harder for a team to get better.

Back in 03-04, an aging capitals team traded away Lang, Gonchar, Jagr, Bondra, Nylander, Konowalchuk and Battaglia.

They had an owner with money and should have been good, but they sucked.
So they sold everything, tanked and started over with Ovechkin.

It was a good choice. A deliberate choice.
It took 4 years of bad hockey to rebuild.
It's harder to make that choice today.
What if you finish dead last and get Andrew Ladd instead of Ovechkin?
That year you draft Backstrom, if you don't win the lottery, you're picking 7th instead, so mabe you get James Sheppard or Bryan Little instead.
But the flipside is, that year you drafted Pokulok, maybe you get lucky and get Jack Johnson.
Are there even any sincere tank fans? I think most of us only argue for a rebuild. Selling assets, etc, but not scorched Earth.

This is good news. Hopefully Green can fetch us a first and we can get some minor picks for a couple of other guys. If we continue to stockpile draft picks we'll put together a decent team eventually. Ottawa's second has turned into a great piece. A package like Green 1st +Ottawa 2nd + 4th rounder could net us a mid-first for either a defenseman that's lasting longer than they should (Smith, Bouchard, Woo etc. Someone will have to last too long) or a forward like Veleno that's been passed over for D. I love having two early seconds. It will give us a lot of opportunity to move around if someone is available where they shouldn't be. This TDL could set us up for a great draft.

what most fans want right now which is to get the best draft position as possible.

But if he is in fact a true #1 out of the box then he slots our current D-men down a peg and makes the unit better as a whole. Getting that guy who actually fits the bill as a #1 will have rippling affects through our D corps

his point is that getting Dahlin, who isnt guaranteed to be an elite 1D, wont change us overnight

Draper is obviously speaking under the assumption that Dahlin will be as good as advertised. If he, most certainly would change us overnight.

Hes fine, but we are in full blown rebuild and if we can trade him for picks then you do it and let kids play. We are not going anywhere with him.

Back in 03-04, an aging capitals team traded away Lang, Gonchar, Jagr, Bondra, Nylander, Konowalchuk and Battaglia.

what have the Capitals won since then? Oh yeah, President's "Trophy."
 

TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
12,466
6,512
Ontario
what have the Capitals won since then? Oh yeah, President's "Trophy."

At least they had a huge open window to contend for cups, and a hell of a fun team to watch.

Better than being a shit boring team with no chance at a cup.

A cup is never guaranteed, but organizations can work to put themselves in the position to win one.
 
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Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
what have the Capitals won since then? Oh yeah, President's "Trophy."

?
OK.
How about the Penguins trading Jagr. Kovalev. Lang. Straka. Kasparitus. etc. Etc. etc.

What did that get them?
Malkin?
Great chance in the lottery that won them Crosby.
Staal.
Fleury.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,739
14,704
Sweden
It just pisses me off, going to a Red Wings fan forum and seeing everyone is upset that we beat the pants off Crosby and Co.

The league needs to fix that.
Don't think it's on the league. It's just this fanbase. A month ago people were talking about how we were gonna win so much we would draft 10-14. Now we've been by far the worst team in the league post TDL and our 2nd win in something like 15 games has everyone going crazy about how we're winning too much. When we were the 8th-12th worst team in the league Holland was a moron for building a team too good to finish in the bottom 5, a moron for not tanking. When we lose every game, he's a moron for building a team that competes for worst in the league. When the team finally wins a game, he's a moron again because some of the veterans he signed scored. If we lose the rest of the games, he'll be a moron for building such a terrible team. If we win the lottery and get Dahlin he'll be a lucky moron and get no credit for it. If we lose the lottery despite good odds, he'll be a moron for some other reason.

Basically people just want to be angry, no matter what. "This team is a joke" posts show up in every GDT, win or lose.
 
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TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
What else do you want the league to do?
They've already made finishing last a crapshoot.
They've already made the lottery open to 14 ****ing teams.
Personally, I'd love to make it open to 31 teams.

Team ----- ---- Balls in the lottery
Cup champ -- 1 = 0.08 percent
Finals loser -- 2
Semifinalist loser -- 3
Quarterfinalist loser - 4
First round loser - 5 - 0.4%
17th - 10 0.8% vs 1% today
18th - 20
19th - 30
20th - 40
21st - 50
22nd - 60
23rd -- 70
24th - 80
25th - 90
26th - 100 - 8.4%
27th - 110
28th - 120
29th - 130 - 11 %
30th - 140 - 11.8%
31st - 150 - 12.7% vs 18.5% today

Here's the sad truth, for you. Tanking is a way to control your destiny. And weakening a team's ability to tank effectively makes it harder for a team to get better.

Back in 03-04, an aging capitals team traded away Lang, Gonchar, Jagr, Bondra, Nylander, Konowalchuk and Battaglia.

They had an owner with money and should have been good, but they sucked.
So they sold everything, tanked and started over with Ovechkin.

It was a good choice. A deliberate choice.
It took 4 years of bad hockey to rebuild.
It's harder to make that choice today.
What if you finish dead last and get Andrew Ladd instead of Ovechkin?
That year you draft Backstrom, if you don't win the lottery, you're picking 7th instead, so mabe you get James Sheppard or Bryan Little instead.
But the flipside is, that year you drafted Pokulok, maybe you get lucky and get Jack Johnson.
Thank you for bringing up an excellent point. I made a thread on the main board to attempt to address it. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/incentive-to-cheer-for-a-loss.2470069/
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,756
4,569
Cleveland
It just pisses me off, going to a Red Wings fan forum and seeing everyone is upset that we beat the pants off Crosby and Co.

The league needs to fix that.

I think Wings' management needs to fix it by putting a team on the ice that we can expect to be competitive every night and not just once out of every 13 or so games.
 
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Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,756
4,569
Cleveland
Don't think it's on the league. It's just this fanbase. A month ago people were talking about how we were gonna win so much we would draft 10-14. Now we've been by far the worst team in the league post TDL and our 2nd win in something like 15 games has everyone going crazy about how we're winning too much. When we were the 8th-12th worst team in the league Holland was a moron for building a team too good to finish in the bottom 5, a moron for not tanking. When we lose every game, he's a moron for building a team that competes for worst in the league. When the team finally wins a game, he's a moron again because some of the veterans he signed scored. If we lose the rest of the games, he'll be a moron for building such a terrible team. If we win the lottery and get Dahlin he'll be a lucky moron and get no credit for it. If we lose the lottery despite good odds, he'll be a moron for some other reason.

Basically people just want to be angry, no matter what. "This team is a joke" posts show up in every GDT, win or lose.

Do you think Holland built this team expecting to draft top5 in the lottery?
 
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Red Stanley

Registered User
Apr 25, 2015
2,414
778
USA
Don't think it's on the league. It's just this fanbase. A month ago people were talking about how we were gonna win so much we would draft 10-14. Now we've been by far the worst team in the league post TDL and our 2nd win in something like 15 games has everyone going crazy about how we're winning too much. When we were the 8th-12th worst team in the league Holland was a moron for building a team too good to finish in the bottom 5, a moron for not tanking. When we lose every game, he's a moron for building a team that competes for worst in the league. When the team finally wins a game, he's a moron again because some of the veterans he signed scored. If we lose the rest of the games, he'll be a moron for building such a terrible team. If we win the lottery and get Dahlin he'll be a lucky moron and get no credit for it. If we lose the lottery despite good odds, he'll be a moron for some other reason.

Basically people just want to be angry, no matter what. "This team is a joke" posts show up in every GDT, win or lose.

Ain't that the truth. I wouldn't sweat the negativity, tbh. Nothing that gets posted on here makes an inkling of a difference in the standings.
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
Ain't that the truth. I wouldn't sweat the negativity, tbh. Nothing that gets posted on here makes an inkling of a difference in the standings.
It makes a difference to me. When we were good, i enjoyed watching games with the gdt in the background so i could share opinions and thoughts and cheers with like-minded fans. That's not fun anymore because now I'm wading through posts of people upset when we score goals and happy when we get scored against. That's depressing and makes the whole game watching experience worse for me.

I am totally fine with the gm making strategic tank moves that make the team worse in the short run. But when i tune into a game, i want to cheer for a win. And i want to discuss and share with others who are cheering for a win.
 

Red Stanley

Registered User
Apr 25, 2015
2,414
778
USA
It makes a difference to me. When we were good, i enjoyed watching games with the gdt in the background so i could share opinions and thoughts and cheers with like-minded fans. That's not fun anymore because now I'm wading through posts of people upset when we score goals and happy when we get scored against. That's depressing and makes the whole game watching experience worse for me.

I am totally fine with the gm making strategic tank moves that make the team worse in the short run. But when i tune into a game, i want to cheer for a win. And i want to discuss and share with others who are cheering for a win.

Trust me, I sympathize. Not sure this is the best place for this, though. There's always the block option, too.
 

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