Dreger: Pietrangelo to test UFA market

[Erndog]

I don’t see AP signing in TO at all.

Thanks

 

[Eternal Leaf]

And there's teams that can match that and roll quality lines after that.

I was just talking about the amount of talent on the ice rather than actually running something like that consistently. Plus, it would only happen in end-game situations. 6-on-5.

Likely...

Tavares-Matthews-Marner

Nylander

Rielly-Pietrangelo

Otherwise, they would split the forwards into two lines like they did this season.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That's fair, but you could also look at it as Toronto having higher quality players in their top 6 to overcome some of that, depending on how you feel about Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Benn, Seguin, Radulov, etc.

We will see.

Toronto hasn't gotten out of the first round with those top six forwards even WITH depth in their bottom six behind them, but those top six forwards will somehow carry the team 4 rounds deep with even less support behind them?

Pietrangelo would definitely bolster the blueline, but I still don't see any team with that many question marks in the bottom six (assuming the hypothetical moving of all of Kapanen, Johnsson and Kerfoot and replacing them with cheap UFA bargain bin guys or unproven B or C-level prospects) challenging for a Cup.

 

[Erndog]

So you think that poster's idea for Toronto's bottom six looks like something that could lead to a Cup?

I watched Corey Perry, Blake Comeau, Andrew Cogliano, Jason Dickinson, and Mattias Janmark skate around to a 1-0 series lead in the SC finals...

Ya darn Effing right I can see a crappy bottom 6 win a cup as long as they have other pieces in place around the rest of the roster.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm not moving the goalposts at all. You said Dallas has Benn and Cogliano up the middle and can build quality lines around them. That's simply not true, as both are wingers for Dallas. If you wanted to make a case that they could fill in at center if necessary, then so can Nylander. All taking faceoffs is an indication of is that Benn is good at it. A center has more duties than just being good at faceoffs. Nylander would regularly take faceoffs on his strong side with Matthews last season. He had 315 faceoffs at 5v5 in 54 games, Benn had 292 in 69 games this year. Would you argue that Nylander was a center last year?

Benn has taken over 600 face-offs for Dallas this year... what are you talking about? He's taken 170 in the post-season alone.

The face-off totals you are citing for Nylander are from *last* year, when he did in fact take 368. This past year, that number dropped significantly to 212.

This is just stupid. If you want to pretend that Nylander is comparable to Benn in terms of playing center in the NHL, be my guest. It's totally irrelevant to what is being discussed.

We're comparing the depth of the Dallas Stars and the proposed Maple Leaf line up that would have left the Leafs with Matthews/Tavares/Gauthier/Engrall down the middle. If you really think adding Nylander to that list suddenly makes that an enviable group of centers that compares favourably to the Stars, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

What you are not entitled to is taking stats from two years ago, pretending they were from this year and offering it up as "proof" to something.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I watched Corey Perry, Blake Comeau, Andrew Cogliano, Jason Dickinson, and Mattias Janmark skate around to a 1-0 series lead in the SC finals...

Ya darn Effing right I can see a crappy bottom 6 win a cup as long as they have other pieces in place around the rest of the roster.

If you truly believe Dallas' bottom six is "crappy" I don't know what to tell you. Especially when it's in comparison to a proposed bottom six that literally has 3 unproven rookies, a terrible 4th liner, another 4th liner, and Mikheyev being the only guy who has shown any sort of top 9 talent out of the bunch.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I don’t see AP signing in TO at all.

He's likely going to find the best possible deal and then bring it back to St.Louis to match. Kind of like an offer sheet.

And it's not the Leafs that will be the biggest bidder.

I'm certain there's another team that will go all out and give him a massive deal. That's what Blues fans have to worry about, not what the Leafs are going to offer.

 

[Erndog]

If you truly believe Dallas' bottom six is "crappy" I don't know what to tell you. Especially when it's in comparison to a proposed bottom six that literally has 3 unproven rookies, a terrible 4th liner, another 4th liner, and Mikheyev being the only guy who has shown any sort of top 9 talent out of the bunch.

Yeah, that's an all world bottom 6 right there.

A handful of guys that wont be in the NHL in 2 seasons.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

He's likely going to find the best possible deal and then bring it back to St.Louis to match. Kind of like an offer sheet.

And it's not the Leafs that will be the biggest bidder.

I'm certain there's another team that will go all out and give him a massive deal. That's what Blues fans have to worry about, not what the Leafs are going to offer.

I could see that happening for sure. I don’t see TO being able to fit him in. No team is going to absorb 9-10 million in cap to do them a favour.

 

[Peter Peckerwood]

I watched Corey Perry, Blake Comeau, Andrew Cogliano, Jason Dickinson, and Mattias Janmark skate around to a 1-0 series lead in the SC finals...

Ya darn Effing right I can see a crappy bottom 6 win a cup as long as they have other pieces in place around the rest of the roster.

By all means, let the Leafs have at it. They've obviously shown us that they have the winning recipe and ability to make a dynasty with their all-in. Every. Single. Year. It is a swing and a miss....whiiiiiiffff. We all enjoy it! Especially because it hasn't even been close.

 

[GM Armchair]

The main difference between Dallas and Toronto is that Dallas plays as a unit. Toronto mainly plays as individuals. AP isn’t going to fix Toronto and I hope they don’t go after another big FA signing.

AP should go to Florida and get his tan on.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So you think that poster's idea for Toronto's bottom six looks like something that could lead to a Cup?

I don't know that a team's bottom 6 has ever led them to a cup, and I would hope the Leafs aren't counting on building one that does. all that matters is the quality of the team as a whole, and getting hot at the right time. In general it's not good to have massively weak areas, but I think the Leafs should be able to take advantage of the current financial climate to build a cheap and at least passable bottom 6. If that doesn't work, I guess they would have to finally trade a star forward but things are likely trending that way anyway if they can't find a way to win

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yeah, that's an all world bottom 6 right there.

A handful of guys that wont be in the NHL in 2 seasons.

As opposed to a bottom six composed of some players that arguably shouldn’t be in the NHL now? I’ve seen lineups posted with Gauthier as the third line center!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't know that a team's bottom 6 has ever led them to a cup, and I would hope the Leafs aren't counting on building one that does. all that matters is the quality of the team as a whole, and getting hot at the right time. In general it's not good to have massively weak areas, but I think the Leafs should be able to take advantage of the current financial climate to build a cheap and at least passable bottom 6. If that doesn't work, I guess they would have to finally trade a star forward but things are likely trending that way anyway if they can't find a way to win

But the bolded isn't really the argument. The argument is a weak bottom six can prevent a team from winning the Cup because it provides next to zero support for the top six, not that a bottom six can "lead a team to a Cup".

Like I said earlier in the thread, I can't think of a team that won the Cup recently that had a bad bottom six filled with cast-offs and retreads making league minimum. It just doesn't happen because teams need depth scoring from all lines to go deep. The top heavy teams run into problems after round 1 and 2.

Teams can get away with maybe their 12th forward being sub-par or maybe their 4th line being a defensive line with almost no offense, but I can't think of a Cup winner whose 3rd and 4th lines were essentially made up of over the hill veterans who are a shadow of their former selves and unproven b-level prospects.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

But the bolded isn't really the argument. The argument is a weak bottom six can prevent a team from winning the Cup because it provides next to zero support for the top six, not that a bottom six can "lead a team to a Cup".

Like I said earlier in the thread, I can't think of a team that won the Cup recently that had a bad bottom six filled with cast-offs and retreads making league minimum. It just doesn't happen because teams need depth scoring from all lines to go deep. The top heavy teams run into problems after round 1 and 2.

Teams can get away with maybe their 12th forward being sub-par or maybe their 4th line being a defensive line with almost no offense, but I can't think of a Cup winner whose 3rd and 4th lines were essentially made up of over the hill veterans who are a shadow of their former selves and unproven b-level prospects.

Not only do the top teams need depth scoring from the bottom six they also need guys who can temporarily move into the top 6 to cover for injuries to top players. You never make it through the grind of the playoffs without injuries. A team with weak depth like that would be moving one of those over the hill vets or b prospects into a top six role. I mean the lineup already includes untested rookie Nick Robertson pencilled into the top six which might or might not work.
The depth was a problem this year with Kapanen, Johnston and Kerfoot. Imagine the depth if you ship all those guys out for picks and replace them with over the hill vets and b level prospects.

 

[Chayos]

.... not sure an Edmonton fan is the one who should be making this comment lol.

Well we have won 4 cup and been to the finals and lost 2 more times in the period since Tor last one won, so yes we can safely say that.

 

[Chayos]

Them getting Pietrangelo would sink their team's payroll. It's illogical. Year by year the team would continue to watch players leave the organization, being replaced by guys making close to league minimum.

In all honesty, their roster needs a total retool next season if their play is to run Matthews and Tavares 1-2 during the flat cap. They need to shed one of the big contracts and they need to improve the pool of ELCs coming in to provide them with good cheap depth moving forward. As it stands their outlook is iffy the way their roster currently sits with no long-term answer in goal and a defense not particularly good at defending.

I would move Marner for a kings ransom of youth and picks and sign pietrangelo.

 

[Merrrlin]

Toronto hasn't gotten out of the first round with those top six forwards even WITH depth in their bottom six behind them, but those top six forwards will somehow carry the team 4 rounds deep with even less support behind them?

Pietrangelo would definitely bolster the blueline, but I still don't see any team with that many question marks in the bottom six (assuming the hypothetical moving of all of Kapanen, Johnsson and Kerfoot and replacing them with cheap UFA bargain bin guys or unproven B or C-level prospects) challenging for a Cup.

Well, we have a long way to go to ever know.

 

[93gilmour93]

I think the Leafs end up with AP for somewhere in the 8.5 - 9 range. How Dubas makes everything work will be interesting to watch.

 

[The90]

Well we have won 4 cup and been to the finals and lost 2 more times in the period since Tor last one won, so yes we can safely say that.

What have you done for me lately?

 

[RWatson29]

I know you think you have a point but you have no point, how many Dallas stars have won a championship? I can think of 1 guy, Seguin anf he had VERY little to do with it.

How many in Tampa have won a championship? again I can think of 1 guy, Patrick Maroon

I'm sure are more but there aren't many

lmao you have no point. You’re saying those 3 will help a Toronto team that’s completely gutted but has pietro win a Stanley cup. Sorry to tell you but just because those 3 had success in the past, doesn’t translate to them winning a cup. I’d love to see that Toronto team, you would get absolutely worked with your dumbass idea. Also the stars have Perry and a ton of guys that play a team game, not just a handful of stat rats

 

[Crosscrease14]

Toronto hasn't gotten out of the first round with those top six forwards even WITH depth in their bottom six behind them, but those top six forwards will somehow carry the team 4 rounds deep with even less support behind them?

Pietrangelo would definitely bolster the blueline, but I still don't see any team with that many question marks in the bottom six (assuming the hypothetical moving of all of Kapanen, Johnsson and Kerfoot and replacing them with cheap UFA bargain bin guys or unproven B or C-level prospects) challenging for a Cup.

Every year is such a crapshoot all you can really do is build a good team and hope the right things fall into place.

The leafs didn't use their depth in the playins.. if the coach doesn't trust guys like kappy, Johnsson and Kerfoot to contribute they should be moved. Kap already gone. There will be cheap UFA depth filler this year with covid. I think AP (if possible) would hugely bolster the leafs defence and put them in line to compete with powerhouses like Boston and Tampa in their division.

 

[Go Wings]

I was more discussing the ages where Pronger and Chara had their highest degrees of success. You are really backing up my premise that Pietrangelo will be a driving force for the majority of his 30’s for which ever team he signs with. There has been a lot of talk of how a 7 year contract would be an anchor on a team and I think we both agree that in his case this is not likely.

Ah okay sorry I misinterpreted what you meant. I do not think he will be anchor however injuries can play a big part and slowing players down. So you really never know but based on the info at hand I think it will be a good signing whoever gets him.

 

[TML1967]

As a Leafs fan, its hard.
Do I want AP? Yes
Am I worried about the other moves needed to make it work? Maybe
Can the Leafs move a guy like Marner (who has 7m actual money owed on average per year) and get better? In a salary vs expectations sort of way, sure.

 

[Rude Dog]

So you think that poster's idea for Toronto's bottom six looks like something that could lead to a Cup?

lol. First game is next week. Why don’t you wait to see what it actually looks like. I have a feeling there are going to be some surprises with guys signing cheap deals to stay in the league. I don’t see Gauthier on the roster.