Dreger: Pietrangelo to test UFA market

[FerrisRox]

You're calling Jamie Benn and Cogliano full time centers, but are challenging the idea that Gauthier or Nylander can play center?

First of all I quite obviously wasn't suggesting the names I was listing were "full time center." The first clue: I listed five centers. You don't have to be a hockey expert to know that no team utilizes five full time centers. Just a tip for you.

As for the names you object to...

Jamie Benn has taken over 600 face-offs for the Dallas Stars this season. He has an extensive history at the NHL level playing center. He is used at center often, including in these playoffs where he switches from the wing to center with Tyler Seguin.

Is this news to you? Did he secretly take 600 face-offs this year?

Cogliano is used on the wing for Dallas but also has tons of NHL experience up the middle. He's not very effective in the dot though, and has been better utilized on the wing after his trade from Edmonton.

But again, nobody - but you, of course - is talking about "full time centers." We're talking about depth on the bottom lines.

That's the actual conversation before you decided to come here and shift around the goalposts. The Maple Leafs roster, as given by the poster I was responding to, featured Fred Gauthier as the third line centre and Pierre Engvall as the fourth. Or you could take Nylander out of the top six for some reason and play him out of position as a center on the third line with some entry level or journeyman minimum salary wingers.

Which ever scenario you prefer, but either way, pretending it somehow is similar to what the Dallas Stars are rolling out their third and fourth lines is laughable.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I get the bottom 6 being weak, but just imagine running this at one point in a game...

Tavares - Matthews- Marner

Rielly-Pietrangelo

Ridiculous.

The top six and D would be amazing and that PP would be lethal.
I actually think it would be fascinating to plug the bottom six with minimum salary guys and see what happens just as a fun experiment.

 

[belair]

Man I hope any team but the leafs get Pietrangelo, because he is exactly what they need on the back end and their fans are sickening enough when they haven't won in 53 years let alone if they actually won a cup.

Them getting Pietrangelo would sink their team's payroll. It's illogical. Year by year the team would continue to watch players leave the organization, being replaced by guys making close to league minimum.

In all honesty, their roster needs a total retool next season if their play is to run Matthews and Tavares 1-2 during the flat cap. They need to shed one of the big contracts and they need to improve the pool of ELCs coming in to provide them with good cheap depth moving forward. As it stands their outlook is iffy the way their roster currently sits with no long-term answer in goal and a defense not particularly good at defending.

 

[The90]

Fixed that up for you.

.... not sure an Edmonton fan is the one who should be making this comment lol.

 

[Faltorvo]

Correct. A lot of teams can’t replace injuries in the top 6. Those teams generally find themselves in the draft lottery and are not contenders. Top contenders like Tampa, Boston, Washington, St. Louis, Vegas, etc go with the next man up mantra and don’t miss a beat.
As for Nylander you’re moving a top 6 winger to another top 6 position. Akin to shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. You still need someone new in the top 6.

mikeyev can and has played in our top 6

 

[WetcoastOrca]

mikeyev can and has played in our top 6

Of course. Any player ‘can’ play in the top six.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

First of all I quite obviously wasn't suggesting the names I was listing were "full time center." The first clue: I listed five centers. You don't have to be a hockey expert to know that no team utilizes five full time centers. Just a tip for you.

As for the names you object to...

Jamie Benn has taken over 600 face-offs for the Dallas Stars this season. He has an extensive history at the NHL level playing center. He is used at center often, including in these playoffs where he switches from the wing to center with Tyler Seguin.

Is this news to you? Did he secretly take 600 face-offs this year?

Cogliano is used on the wing for Dallas but also has tons of NHL experience up the middle. He's not very effective in the dot though, and has been better utilized on the wing after his trade from Edmonton.

But again, nobody - but you, of course - is talking about "full time centers." We're talking about depth on the bottom lines.

That's the actual conversation before you decided to come here and shift around the goalposts. The Maple Leafs roster, as given by the poster I was responding to, featured Fred Gauthier as the third line centre and Pierre Engvall as the fourth. Or you could take Nylander out of the top six for some reason and play him out of position as a center on the third line with some entry level or journeyman minimum salary wingers.

Which ever scenario you prefer, but either way, pretending it somehow is similar to what the Dallas Stars are rolling out their third and fourth lines is laughable.

I'm not moving the goalposts at all. You said Dallas has Benn and Cogliano up the middle and can build quality lines around them. That's simply not true, as both are wingers for Dallas. If you wanted to make a case that they could fill in at center if necessary, then so can Nylander. All taking faceoffs is an indication of is that Benn is good at it. A center has more duties than just being good at faceoffs. Nylander would regularly take faceoffs on his strong side with Matthews last season. He had 315 faceoffs at 5v5 in 54 games, Benn had 292 in 69 games this year. Would you argue that Nylander was a center last year?

 

[Faltorvo]

Of course. Any player ‘can’ play in the top six.

he played fine in our top 6

 

[Eternal Leaf]

The top six and D would be amazing and that PP would be lethal.
I actually think it would be fascinating to plug the bottom six with minimum salary guys and see what happens just as a fun experiment.

It would be interesting.

I think the biggest challenge is always attrition. Can cheap depth keep them afloat when 1-2 stars go down? How long will the regular season be?

A shorter season would increase the chances of this experiment leading to a long run in the playoffs.

If all of them survive and are healthy going into the postseason, it would be a decent team. Keefe would have a much easier time allocating top-heavy minutes in the middle of a series than game 52 of the regular season.

 

[67Blues]

I get the bottom 6 being weak, but just imagine running this at one point in a game...

Tavares - Matthews- Marner

Rielly-Pietrangelo

Ridiculous.

In a compressed schedule, those guys will be absolutely spent before the playoffs even start. Next season is going to be a very weird one and a team that can conserve by running 4/3 competitive lines will have a distinct advantage come playoffs. Think about that these guys will be playing every other night for the most part with some back to backs interspersed. It will be a grind and injuries will be amplified as there is no buy week or all-star break.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Leaf fans freaking out in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

Considering how bad their cap situation already is, they shouldn't be.

They're either gonna have to move Nylander or Marner, and the latter is not gonna be at a price a player of his caliber should go for due to his contract.

 

[belair]

he played fine in our top 6

Great. If he continues to do well there, you'll need to pay him more eventually.

 

[MissouriMook]

I get the bottom 6 being weak, but just imagine running this at one point in a game...

Tavares - Matthews- Marner

Rielly-Pietrangelo

Ridiculous.

And an opponent that can run something like ...

Blais-Barbashev-Sundqvist
Scandella-Parayko

...against them will have them hemmed in their own zone for 70% of the game and breaking sticks on the bench. Which is one more reason why you need quality depth and strong defensive players in your bottom 6 or you end up with a “fun” team that can’t win the big game when things get tight.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

In a compressed schedule, those guys will be absolutely spent before the playoffs even start. Next season is going to be a very weird one and a team that can conserve by running 4/3 competitive lines will have a distinct advantage come playoffs. Think about that these guys will be playing every other night for the most part with some back to backs interspersed. It will be a grind and injuries will be amplified as there is no buy week or all-star break.

That's a good point.

It would be interesting to see how they manage the forward lines. Do they spread the stars throughout the first three lines (i.e. Nylander on the third as a C)? Do they run the depth pieces during games and hope they can tread water until the top 6 comes out again?

I think the defense would be fine cause Pietrangelo knocks everyone into the right position. Muzzin-Holl can handle whatever's left in terms of tough matchups while a pair out of Dermott, Lehtonen, Sandin, Liljegren picks up the easy minutes as a bottom pairing.

They could also split Rielly and Pietrangelo in the regular season.

Muzzin-Pietrangelo
Rielly-Holl

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

And an opponent that can run something like ...

Blais-Barbashev-Sundqvist
Scandella-Parayko

...against them will have them hemmed in their own zone for 70% of the game and breaking sticks on the bench. Which is one more reason why you need quality depth and strong defensive players in your bottom 6 or you end up with a “fun” team that can’t win the big game when things get tight.

I'm not sure why more teams don't simply hem the other team's best players in for 70% of the game with their bottom 6 players

 

[MissouriMook]

I'm not sure why more teams don't simply hem the other team's best players in for 70% of the game with their bottom 6 players

Because not every team invests in depth, defensive play and goal suppression the way championship caliber teams do.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The Leafs have been all in ever since they signed Tavares. Every move they've made has been that of a Cup contender.

I agree they have been making moves to try and win a cup, but I wouldn't call them all in yet.

Getting Pietrangelo THAT puts them all in.

That's the point where you see them push their chips in the middle and truly go ALL IN.
because at that point you would have every single thing you need.

You'd have the offense

You'd have the goaltending

and you would have the piece you need on defense

If they sign Pietrangelo, picks and prospects won't matter, they will do what Pittsburgh does and drain the farm system to win a championship.

You haven't seen all in from the Leafs yet but IF they sign Pietrangelo you will.

But for the record I don't think they will or need to.

I think 2 of Savard, Manson, Larsson, Hjalmarsson, Tanev, Gudas etc. Would be good enough.

 

[belair]

I agree they have been making moves to try and win a cup, but I wouldn't call them all in yet.

Getting Pietrangelo THAT puts them all in.

That's the point where you see them push their chips in the middle and truly go ALL IN.
because at that point you would have every single thing you need.

You'd have the offense

You'd have the goaltending

and you would have the piece you need on defense

If they sign Pietrangelo, picks and prospects won't matter, they will do what Pittsburgh does and drain the farm system to win a championship.

You haven't seen all in from the Leafs yet but IF they sign Pietrangelo you will.

But for the record I don't think they will or need to.

I think 2 of Savard, Manson, Larsson, Hjalmarsson, Tanev, Gudas etc. Would be good enough.

I think you need to look at their payroll.

 

[Peter Peckerwood]

I get the bottom 6 being weak, but just imagine running this at one point in a game...

Tavares - Matthews- Marner

Rielly-Pietrangelo

Ridiculous.

And there's teams that can match that and roll quality lines after that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think you need to look at their payroll.

You can make room at the expense of Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall, possibly Holl although I could see Holl staying or going.

 

[belair]

You can make room at the expense of Kerfoot, Johnsson, Engvall, possibly Holl although I could see Holl staying or going.

Again, I think you're going to have a hard time finding takers for depth guys owed $10m+ over the next three years who don't contribute to the special teams nor do they really produce more than the average UFA.

Even before COVID I wasn't convinced there'd be a strong market for those guys.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

And an opponent that can run something like ...

Blais-Barbashev-Sundqvist
Scandella-Parayko

...against them will have them hemmed in their own zone for 70% of the game and breaking sticks on the bench. Which is one more reason why you need quality depth and strong defensive players in your bottom 6 or you end up with a “fun” team that can’t win the big game when things get tight.

Love it when my forward line hems the opponent in the zone for 70% of the time and winds up with less than 50% of the shot attempts that happen while they’re together.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Again, I think you're going to have a hard time finding takers for depth guys owed $10m+ over the next three years who don't contribute to the special teams nor do they really produce more than the average UFA.

Even before COVID I wasn't convinced there'd be a strong makes for those guys.

Guys who have higher cap hits then their actual salary are going to have value

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No, it's impossible for the 3rd ranked offense in the league to hope to compete with the 27th ranked offense if they lose a couple of depth forwards

So you think that poster's idea for Toronto's bottom six looks like something that could lead to a Cup?

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I don’t see AP signing in TO at all.