Confirmed with Link: Pierre Groulx's contract will not be renewed

[ZUKI]

Exactly.

Eli Wilson will most likely be the new goaltending coach of the Montreal Canadiens. A logical move, and a smart move. I suspect Price may have had some input on Groulx's replacement.

why Eli Wilson ?

he worked for witch team(s) in the NHL ?

 

[Guilliam]

He has worked in Ottawa. During the Emery years if I'm not mistaken. He also has a goalie camp in the summer that Price attended at least a couple of times some years ago.

 

[Hoople]

yea i think thats the main issue too, he needs to take a page out of eller's book and see a sports psychiatrist. did wonders for him last season

Agree 100%.

Price has the athletic ability and the physical skills of a top goalie.

When he went on his slump streak, he looked mentally lost and beaten with no confidence. Body language showed that.

A sports psychiatrist will get the old Price back on the ice.

 

[overlords]

Agree 100%.

Price has the athletic ability and the physical skills of a top goalie.

When he went on his slump streak, he looked mentally lost and beaten with no confidence. Body language showed that.

A sports psychiatrist will get the old Price back on the ice.

I think there must be very few players out there who wouldn't see some improvement with a sports psychologist. Carey Price being a prime candidate, as you say.

 

[habs03]

Well the Habs hired a full time sports psychiatrist, before I think it was part time, so maybe Price does see him, and maybe it's just Eller that has mentioned it to reporters.

 

[habsfanatics*]

The goalie coach isn't very important at all. Price's performances have fluctuated under the same coach, good year with coach, followed by a bad year with the coach, regardless of the name attached to the coach.

Price's performance has to do with Price, not the coach. He's got some technical flaws that him and the coaches can work on, but most goalies have flaws, the key is to get a coach who allows price to play the way Price is comfortable and not try to correct all the supposed flaws they see. A flaw in one goalies technical performance might not be a flaw in another. It might just be the way they play that makes them comfortable, after 6 seasons in the NHL PRice's style is pretty much se in stone, he's developed a way that works for him, he's been inconsistent, but I feel it has absolutely nothing to do with the coach.

Price will be fine, he just might not be a superstar.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

The goalie coach isn't very important at all. Price's performances have fluctuated under the same coach, good year with coach, followed by a bad year with the coach, regardless of the name attached to the coach.

Price's performance has to do with Price, not the coach. He's got some technical flaws that him and the coaches can work on, but most goalies have flaws, the key is to get a coach who allows price to play the way Price is comfortable and not try to correct all the supposed flaws they see. A flaw in one goalies technical performance might not be a flaw in another. It might just be the way they play that makes them comfortable, after 6 seasons in the NHL PRice's style is pretty much se in stone, he's developed a way that works for him, he's been inconsistent, but I feel it has absolutely nothing to do with the coach.

Price will be fine, he just might not be a superstar.

Similar to what Brodeur said. He said it has nothing to do with technique and more to do with compete level and wanting to do everything to make the save. I tend to agree with him. Although I hate how he stays on his knees and has trouble tracking the puck....I believe all of his issues are mental because he has all the physical tools to be great...his positioning is great, he's quick, strong, etc.... It's all between the ears.

 

[dmanfish90]

The guy logs more games than anyone not named Pekka Rinne and he plays for a team that has some pretty bad holes on it defensively. You talk like keeping a .920 save percentage is easy... it isn't, even on a good team. And its harder to do when you log as many games as he does.

A .920 is top 25 in the league. For Price, who I believe is a top 10 goalie right now, shouldn't be hard. But in general, it's only .5% off from the league average at about .915. It is easier on a good team (Howard with Detroit for example) but it is indeed harder when you play more games.

Interesting statistic: Price has played 300+ games in 6 seasons in the NHL, averaging to about 50 per game. However, over the past 3 seasons (including 2012-13) he has played about 175 games out of a possible 210 games. His goalie statistics in those years? Well without using the game log which would be the most accurate, but an approximate average of about: .915 (average) and 2.50 (average).

So over the past 3 years he has average stats on average to below-average teams.

During the season the team played very well but on average goaltending was average to mediocre(Price anyways).

During the playoffs the team the taem played well enough to win but the goaltending was brutal.

If if there is a disconnect this year it's with the goalie not the team. The team got a lot better than 2011-12 and Price's numbers got worse(2.43 GAA to 2.59 and .916% to .905) instead of better.

People keep obsessing about size this and size that but goaltending was by far the biggest issue for this team against Ottawa.

So much wrong with this post indeed. Firstly, through January/February, Price had like a .923 or something and a 2.3 or 2.4 GAA. Our biggest issue when the slump began was not goaltending, but in fact defense. Price before the slump blew some games (which is not allowed for goalies?). The fact is because it was a "half season", each game was more valuable. Over an 82 game season, Price doesn't have a .905 or even 2.59 GAA.

However, our defense played like it normally does year after year down the stretch (when injuries are put in effect). 1st two months, we were playing great but other teams like NJ, NYR, PHI, played like crap because short training camp (really short) and other issues.

We'll see next year what our team is capable of doing over a real 82-game season and then I will make concrete statements about our goaltending (Price in particular), our defense and our offense. Until then, let's be happy we took the division, made the playoffs and have 6 out of the 90 picks in the first 3 rounds for this draft. That is a great thing to have.

The goalie coach isn't very important at all. Price's performances have fluctuated under the same coach, good year with coach, followed by a bad year with the coach, regardless of the name attached to the coach.

Price's performance has to do with Price, not the coach. He's got some technical flaws that him and the coaches can work on, but most goalies have flaws, the key is to get a coach who allows price to play the way Price is comfortable and not try to correct all the supposed flaws they see. A flaw in one goalies technical performance might not be a flaw in another. It might just be the way they play that makes them comfortable, after 6 seasons in the NHL PRice's style is pretty much se in stone, he's developed a way that works for him, he's been inconsistent, but I feel it has absolutely nothing to do with the coach.

Price will be fine, he just might not be a superstar.

Yes and no. Allaire in Toronto was trying to help Gusto and Reimer, but the other coaches were putting too much input to the goalies and it screwed them over. Also, Allaire's butterfly style isn't the best for all goalies, so yes sometimes it does.

With Price, it does not. Inconsistent over his time here in MTL despite the goaltending coaching changes. It's between the ears. I don't think the guy has mentally developed yet to be the #1 in Montreal. When he puts in the mind frame to prove himself (like in 2010-11 after the Halak trade) he can perform well. But his compete level over the past few years has been minimal at best. I wanna see fire in his eyes when he plays in the net, like Patrick and Dominic (and maybe even Quick now) used to play.

Similar to what Brodeur said. He said it has nothing to do with technique and more to do with compete level and wanting to do everything to make the save. I tend to agree with him. Although I hate how he stays on his knees and has trouble tracking the puck....I believe all of his issues are mental because he has all the physical tools to be great...his positioning is great, he's quick, strong, etc.... It's all between the ears.

Yup. Good post.

 

[Canadian_Brewtality]

only here can we have a ten page discussion on a goalie coaching change

PS. The goalie wont change. The coach wont elevate him to the next level, if Price himself wont do it. Coaches can do so much. So whether its Wilson or Marcoux or whoever some of you experts think is best, its not as signficant as you would want to believe.

And now you can get back to ripping Price.

 

[dmanfish90]

only here can we have a ten page discussion on a goalie coaching change

PS. The goalie wont change. The coach wont elevate him to the next level, if Price himself wont do it. Coaches can do so much. So whether its Wilson or Marcoux or whoever some of you experts think is best, its not as signficant as you would want to believe.

And now you can get back to ripping Price.

Coaching can push him to think about elevating him to the next level by telling him "If you wanna be a legend here, or at least a top 5 goalie comparable to Quick, Rask, Lundqvist, Rinne, etc., you need to put that fire in your eyes, save every shot like you want a shutout every game and compete night in and night out".

There's much you can say, but not much you can do to help Carey. It is essentially all up to him to want it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The goalie coach isn't very important at all. Price's performances have fluctuated under the same coach, good year with coach, followed by a bad year with the coach, regardless of the name attached to the coach.

I don't think this is true. And it most certainly isn't true in specific cases. Look at Reimer as exhibit A. You want to get a goalie coach who compliments a goalie's strengths. If you do that you should be okay but sometimes these guys try for radical changes.

I don't have any specific knowledge on how the goalie coach's work with Price. That's why its hard for me to have any kind of solid opinion on the move to fire Groulx.

Price's performance has to do with Price, not the coach. He's got some technical flaws that him and the coaches can work on, but most goalies have flaws, the key is to get a coach who allows price to play the way Price is comfortable and not try to correct all the supposed flaws they see. A flaw in one goalies technical performance might not be a flaw in another. It might just be the way they play that makes them comfortable, after 6 seasons in the NHL PRice's style is pretty much se in stone, he's developed a way that works for him, he's been inconsistent, but I feel it has absolutely nothing to do with the coach.

Price will be fine, he just might not be a superstar.

I think he'll be fine too. Even if he's not a superstar, he's a solid goalie. The real question will be - will he survive Montreal?

A .920 is top 25 in the league. For Price, who I believe is a top 10 goalie right now, shouldn't be hard. But in general, it's only .5% off from the league average at about .915. It is easier on a good team (Howard with Detroit for example) but it is indeed harder when you play more games.

Interesting statistic: Price has played 300+ games in 6 seasons in the NHL, averaging to about 50 per game. However, over the past 3 seasons (including 2012-13) he has played about 175 games out of a possible 210 games. His goalie statistics in those years? Well without using the game log which would be the most accurate, but an approximate average of about: .915 (average) and 2.50 (average).

So over the past 3 years he has average stats on average to below-average teams.

If you pick an average of 5 years or so with game minimums to be 40 games per, you'll probably get three or maybe four guys with a .920. It's really elite to be able to do that. And to do it on bad teams is extremely difficult. Thomas Vokoun btw was probably the most underrated goalie of the past decade. Nobody talks about him and I've never really paid attention to him but his numbers have been really strong for the most part.

Yes and no. Allaire in Toronto was trying to help Gusto and Reimer, but the other coaches were putting too much input to the goalies and it screwed them over. Also, Allaire's butterfly style isn't the best for all goalies, so yes sometimes it does.

With Price, it does not. Inconsistent over his time here in MTL despite the goaltending coaching changes. It's between the ears. I don't think the guy has mentally developed yet to be the #1 in Montreal. When he puts in the mind frame to prove himself (like in 2010-11 after the Halak trade) he can perform well. But his compete level over the past few years has been minimal at best. I wanna see fire in his eyes when he plays in the net, like Patrick and Dominic (and maybe even Quick now) used to play.

Dude... come on. Even factoring in his tank, .917 with the games he's played and the teams we've had is pretty good. Its one thing to hammer him for his crash but to try to say that he hasn't been good over the past few seasons or that he's not yet developed enough to be the number one here is silly.

Maybe Montreal doesn't suit him and maybe he does wind up getting moved but you're going way overboard here.

Coaching can push him to think about elevating him to the next level by telling him "If you wanna be a legend here, or at least a top 5 goalie comparable to Quick, Rask, Lundqvist, Rinne, etc., you need to put that fire in your eyes, save every shot like you want a shutout every game and compete night in and night out".

There's much you can say, but not much you can do to help Carey. It is essentially all up to him to want it.

I don't think this is true. A goalie coach can absolutely make a difference - Kipprusoff is an excellent example of the kind of impact a coach can have.

Who the hell knows though? I mean a goalie coach can be positive or negative... as long as the coach isn't too dogmatic, it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Mathradio]

Now maybe another team can hire Groulx...

While a good goalie coach can only do so much for a goalie, a bad goalie coach can wreck a goalie easily.

 

[DAChampion]

Now maybe another team can hire Groulx...

While a good goalie coach can only do so much for a goalie, a bad goalie coach can wreck a goalie easily.

Where do you plan on living next year?

 

[dmanfish90]

If you pick an average of 5 years or so with game minimums to be 40 games per, you'll probably get three or maybe four guys with a .920. It's really elite to be able to do that. And to do it on bad teams is extremely difficult. Thomas Vokoun btw was probably the most underrated goalie of the past decade. Nobody talks about him and I've never really paid attention to him but his numbers have been really strong for the most part.

Just looked up some goalies, you are indeed right. But if you take a certain season, you'll have goalies that perform badly and others who will perform greatly. An average goaltender makes 91.5% of the saves from shots on goal. 92% is considered good/great and 92.5+ is considered elite (top 5).

Dude... come on. Even factoring in his tank, .917 with the games he's played and the teams we've had is pretty good. Its one thing to hammer him for his crash but to try to say that he hasn't been good over the past few seasons or that he's not yet developed enough to be the number one here is silly.

Maybe Montreal doesn't suit him and maybe he does wind up getting moved but you're going way overboard here.

If you read that bolded part you made correctly, i said MENTALLY developed. I never mentioned "hammer"ing him for his crash nor did I say he hasn't been good over the past few seasons and, let me rephrase, he hasn't developed, mentally, as the #1 goalie in Montreal to bring us home our 25th Cup. If you wanna disagree, go ahead. But until he proves to me that he's capable of consistently playing like 2010-11 Price, he'll continually have doubts in my mind if he can be the goalie to bring us home a cup.

Now as i'm typing this, I also realize teams in front of him have played the greatest defensively, but also say that to Lundvist, who was the Vezina Trophy winner. Say that to Ryan Miller too...

Don't think i'm overboard at all. In fact I think i'm just on par. U think he has had the mentality over the past few years to be an elite goaltender in the NHL? Well he hasn't showed it IMO. He's not at Quick's level, or Rask's for that matter. He needs to elevate his game, his compete level, and maybe then we'll see the Carey Price we were all hyped up about. I feel like he thinks he can get by on talent/skill/technique alone. It's not enough. Just ask Quick.

I don't think this is true. A goalie coach can absolutely make a difference - Kipprusoff is an excellent example of the kind of impact a coach can have.

Who the hell knows though? I mean a goalie coach can be positive or negative... as long as the coach isn't too dogmatic, it shouldn't be a big deal.

For Price, who has immense skill/talent/technique, a goalie coach won't help much. Fix error here from last night, do a little this more, a little that less. But to elevate his game is all mental. Can goalie coaches help mentally develop goaltenders? I don't think so, that job i think is for the sports psychiatrist.

Price's biggest weakness IMO: his lack of compete. You can see it by how he works in his crease.

Feel free to disagree though.

 

[habsfanatics*]

A .920 is top 25 in the league. For Price, who I believe is a top 10 goalie right now, shouldn't be hard. But in general, it's only .5% off from the league average at about .915. It is easier on a good team (Howard with Detroit for example) but it is indeed harder when you play more games.

Interesting statistic: Price has played 300+ games in 6 seasons in the NHL, averaging to about 50 per game. However, over the past 3 seasons (including 2012-13) he has played about 175 games out of a possible 210 games. His goalie statistics in those years? Well without using the game log which would be the most accurate, but an approximate average of about: .915 (average) and 2.50 (average).

So over the past 3 years he has average stats on average to below-average teams.



So much wrong with this post indeed. Firstly, through January/February, Price had like a .923 or something and a 2.3 or 2.4 GAA. Our biggest issue when the slump began was not goaltending, but in fact defense. Price before the slump blew some games (which is not allowed for goalies?). The fact is because it was a "half season", each game was more valuable. Over an 82 game season, Price doesn't have a .905 or even 2.59 GAA.

However, our defense played like it normally does year after year down the stretch (when injuries are put in effect). 1st two months, we were playing great but other teams like NJ, NYR, PHI, played like crap because short training camp (really short) and other issues.

We'll see next year what our team is capable of doing over a real 82-game season and then I will make concrete statements about our goaltending (Price in particular), our defense and our offense. Until then, let's be happy we took the division, made the playoffs and have 6 out of the 90 picks in the first 3 rounds for this draft. That is a great thing to have.



Yes and no. Allaire in Toronto was trying to help Gusto and Reimer, but the other coaches were putting too much input to the goalies and it screwed them over. Also, Allaire's butterfly style isn't the best for all goalies, so yes sometimes it does.

With Price, it does not. Inconsistent over his time here in MTL despite the goaltending coaching changes. It's between the ears. I don't think the guy has mentally developed yet to be the #1 in Montreal. When he puts in the mind frame to prove himself (like in 2010-11 after the Halak trade) he can perform well. But his compete level over the past few years has been minimal at best. I wanna see fire in his eyes when he plays in the net, like Patrick and Dominic (and maybe even Quick now) used to play.



Yup. Good post.

I agree with the between the ears/compete level, however, I don't believe he's nearly as technically sound as many like to believe, but I think being an aesthetically pleasing goalie is highly overrated. Some of the best goalies of all-time would have what many goalie coaches would identify as serious flaws.

Hasek, the most dominant net minder and easily my number 1 goalie of all-time is full of holes, however, he did one thing better than anyone else and that's stop pucks. How you prevent the puck from going in is over-rated, rebound control flopping ect are just something to give the so-called experts something to talk about and make them feel important. There's not much going to change in Price's technique at this point and In my opinion changes are not required a mental therapist wouldn't hurt though.

 

[Darkstorm]

Since Francois Allaire has been hired by the Avalanche, I heard rumors that Montreal will talk with Chicago's goalie coach Stephane Waite since his contract is up next month and Marc Bergevin knows Stephane Waite very well since they both worked in Chicago. I mean look what he did with the goalies there he helped Antti Niemi and they won the cup, he is helping Corey Crawford which he has a great chance of going to the Finals and even a greater chance in winning the Cup. So Stephane Waite is a very respectful goalie coach, and he will be welcomed here in Montreal.

 

[Agnostic]

Since Francois Allaire has been hired by the Avalanche, I heard rumors that Montreal will talk with Chicago's goalie coach Stephane Waite since his contract is up next month and Marc Bergevin knows Stephane Waite very well since they both worked in Chicago. I mean look what he did with the goalies there he helped Antti Niemi and they won the cup, he is helping Corey Crawford which he has a great chance of going to the Finals and even a greater chance in winning the Cup. So Stephane Waite is a very respectful goalie coach, and he will be welcomed here in Montreal.

Why would he not renew with Chicago?

 

[overlords]

Why would he not renew with Chicago?

Perhaps he and Bergevin are friends? And Montreal could out spend Chicago if they had to.

 

[bcv]

Perhaps he and Bergevin are friends? And Montreal could out spend Chicago if they had to.

And, let's not forget it, the chance to work with Carey Price.

 

[Agnostic]

And, let's not forget it, the chance to work with Carey Price.

Yeah I am sure everyone wants to work with a guy whose greatest ability is getting his coach fired.

 

[Andy]

Yeah I am sure everyone wants to work with a guy whose greatest ability is getting his coach fired.

I thought his greatest ability was pissing of Earl the Habs Fan/JimCareyPrice/Agnostic who's been waiting 3 years for a bad streak in order to express his hate for Carey Price

 

[Agnostic]

I thought his greatest ability was pissing of Earl the Habs Fan/JimCareyPrice/Agnostic who's been waiting 3 years for a bad streak in order to express his hate for Carey Price

Edited: Never mind I am getting too old to fight Andy.

 

[Kimota]

I thought his greatest ability was pissing of Earl the Habs Fan/JimCareyPrice/Agnostic who's been waiting 3 years for a bad streak in order to express his hate for Carey Price

That's a low blow, dude. Agnostic has a point in this. Goalie coachs tend to get fired with Carey. If I was a goalie coach, knowing how precious Carey is in Montreal, how you cannot fail, I would think for a minute before accepting the job.

The positive is that you can also do marvels with someone like Price. There are big positives and big negatives too.

 

[Et le But]

I liked Groulx but I was not a fan of Price's adjustments at all this year.

And before I get a response no, I'm not saying Price himself doesn't deserve crticism for a mediocre season, but I feel like Price was trying to imitate Quick at times this year and I wonder where that came from.

 

[DJ Breadman]

A goalie coach is like a pitching coach if the guy is an already established player he is pretty much useless, only time he would be useful is if he is off his game mechanically speaking, and even then he would just say well your a little off your angle here or you are lowering your hand here it's still up to the player to actually make the changes