Confirmed with Link: Pierre Engvall signs 2 year extension (AAV: 1.25M)

[justashadowof]

How exactly did you determine that a player is worth 1.2% of the cap but not 1.4%?

There are multiple well-compensated individuals employed at MLSE who are tasked with doing exactly that sort of thing. In this case that 0.2% difference is a big deal and could be the difference between affording one extra skater and affording two extra skaters.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If he is better than vesey in training camp, he should take the job (which he probably will).
Who cares if you lose a guy like vesey to waivers.

If he is better than Vesey in training camp, he should take the job, but I don't know why we would go into the situation assuming that Vesey will fail.

There are multiple well-compensated individuals employed at MLSE who are tasked with doing exactly that sort of thing.

Then why do you assume you know better than them?

 

[13pacheco31]

If he is better than Vesey in training camp, he should take the job, but I don't know why we would go into the situation assuming that Vesey will fail.

Then why do you assume you know better than them?

Because Vesey is terrible?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Because Vesey is terrible?

Based on?

 

[tony135420]

How exactly did you determine that a player is worth 1.2% of the cap but not 1.4%?

Normally his salary would be fine, but when half of your cap is tied up in 4 players, these types of signings stick out. I'm in no way bashing Engvall. I like his game and think he's going to play his role well. However, looking at it from strictly a cap perspective, he's 300k overpaid. Flat cap, top heavy lineup cap-wise makes for an unfortunate situation for him. If Vesey doesn't work out you could essentially drop him down to the minors, let him go through the waiver process and drop Boyd down and carry a 21 man roster. Still not sure we'd be under the cap.

At the time, both his and Holl's contract were a bit premature, IMO. Holl's is looking god, but I think Engvall was viewed as a 3rd liner at the time of the signing, and it hasn't worked out that way yet.

 

[Dekes For Days]

However, looking at it from strictly a cap perspective, he's 300k overpaid.

He's not.

If Vesey doesn't work out you could essentially drop him down to the minors, let him go through the waiver process and drop Boyd down and carry a 21 man roster. Still not sure we'd be under the cap.

We're under the cap with a 21-man roster, regardless of where Engvall plays.

I think Engvall was viewed as a 3rd liner at the time of the signing, and it hasn't worked out that way yet.

1.25m is not 3rd liner money...

 

[Mess]

He's not.

We're under the cap with a 21-man roster, regardless of where Engvall plays.

1.25m is not 3rd liner money...

What we do know is that $1.25 mil is not AHL money that is for certain, and a team would even incur a proportion of that as a penalty to send him down against their NHL cap at that figure.

Paying a player like Engvall more to play in the AHL then you're paying some of your veteran NHLers to play in the NHL is a problem.

So based on the contract and amount one would think that Engvall is a part of the management plan beyond the pressbox in the NHL as well and expected to be a contributing member of Leafs 2020-21 team. .

 

[cesareborgia]

Pre-covid but it's too hard to understand I know.
What about the other 7-8 UFA/RFA signings he did the past months?

Another overpayment....

Forgot about this signing. You're right, for a pre corona signing it's decent. And yes, he's made some decent signings recently. Though, it's quite hard to overpay in this current market, so I'm not gonna give him any praise. I've said it before; one right, or one hundred rights, do not fix a disastrous wrong.

 

[Stephen]

I mean with all the contracts across the league not really but I get where you are coming from.

In a more equitable reality Engvall would have Dermott’s one year deal at his cap hit and Dermott should have Engvall’s salary and 2 year deal if we go by service time.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Paying a player like Engvall more to play in the AHL then you're paying some of your veteran NHLers to play in the NHL is a problem.

Not really. It doesn't hinder anything. We improved our depth significantly this off-season for cheap, which has potentially pushed an NHL player like Engvall down the depth chart, if everybody else plays well. The chance that everybody excels and nobody gets injured all year is pretty small, so Engvall will likely still get a significant number of games and be an impactful part of the team, even if he isn't in the opening night lineup. It's important to have NHL-quality depth beyond your NHL roster.

 

[13pacheco31]

Based on?

Okay so you haven't seen him play

 

[Dekes For Days]

Okay so you haven't seen him play

I've seen him play, and disagree with your assessment, that seems to be based on nothing.

 

[13pacheco31]

I've seen him play, and disagree with your assessment, that seems to be based on nothing.

He doesn't really stand out or excel in anything. He's terrible defensively, disappears for long periods offensively, he's big but doesn't utilise his size. He's just all around very unremarkable and if he were anywhere near as good as you seem to think he is, he would have been qualified.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

He doesn't really stand out or excel in anything. He's terrible defensively, disappears for long periods offensively, he's big but doesn't utilise his size. He's just all around very unremarkable and if he were anywhere near as good as you seem to think he is, he would have been qualified.

He’s a Ahl’er and is no different than Gauthier who now finds himself out of the game because he wouldn’t play agressive and heavy. It takes a certain type of stupid to be that big and play that soft, it really does. I’d skate right through the boards with somebody for a Nhl minimum contract. These guys though they were comfortable. Ha not. You are talking about Engvall right haha. Engvall sucks

 

[Wafflewhipper]

What we do know is that $1.25 mil is not AHL money that is for certain, and a team would even incur a proportion of that as a penalty to send him down against their NHL cap at that figure.

Paying a player like Engvall more to play in the AHL then you're paying some of your veteran NHLers to play in the NHL is a problem.

So based on the contract and amount one would think that Engvall is a part of the management plan beyond the pressbox in the NHL as well and expected to be a contributing member of Leafs 2020-21 team. .

I hear ya but the guy disappeared after a contract and done nothing and seemed to care less when he played bad. Never seen the guy interviewed and questioned on his really terrible play either come to think of it. I would bury him and take the hit. Vesey isn’t physical enough either but can score a goal and defense is good. Vesey better start getting a hate on or he will be out the league like Gauthier too.
Engvall is a mistake, treat him as such.
I have no patience for soft players that are 5’11” or 6’5” anymore. They have to be willing to compete hard or i will not like them pretty quick now.

 

[justashadowof]

He’s a Ahl’er and is no different than Gauthier who now finds himself out of the game because he wouldn’t play agressive and heavy. It takes a certain type of stupid to be that big and play that soft, it really does. I’d skate right through the boards with somebody for a Nhl minimum contract. These guys though they were comfortable. Ha not. You are talking about Engvall right haha. Engvall sucks

He's demonstrably higher producing and higher skill than Gauthier. Gauthier's demonstrably more physical than Engvall. They're not much alike other than being tall and not goons.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He doesn't really stand out or excel in anything. He's terrible defensively, disappears for long periods offensively, he's big but doesn't utilise his size. He's just all around very unremarkable and if he were anywhere near as good as you seem to think he is, he would have been qualified.

Qualified? Vesey was a UFA. He couldn't be qualified. I'm not sure why people should trust your assessment of the player when you don't even know his status.

 

[Guy Boucher]

In a more equitable reality Engvall would have Dermott’s one year deal at his cap hit and Dermott should have Engvall’s salary and 2 year deal if we go by service time.

If there hadn't been a pandemic, his salary would have been great for a 4C. Engvall and Holl were lucky to sign pre-covid. In the end, it is what it is.

 

[13pacheco31]

Qualified? Vesey was a UFA. He couldn't be qualified. I'm not sure why people should trust your assessment of the player when you don't even know his status.

Okay, I stand corrected, he was a UFA. My point still stands, he's not very good.

 

[hotpaws]

Okay, I stand corrected, he was a UFA. My point still stands, he's not very good.

your right if he was any good he doesn't sign for 900k even with the covid economy

 

[Dekes For Days]

your right if he was any good he doesn't sign for 900k even with the covid economy

Lots of NHL-level players signed for small amounts for 1 year with the current league financial situation. How about we wait for him to play a game?

 

[The Iceman]

Vessey has scored at least 16 goals 3 times. Sounds like a guy that will play well in the bottom 6 with a chance to move up.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

He's demonstrably higher producing and higher skill than Gauthier. Gauthier's demonstrably more physical than Engvall. They're not much alike other than being tall and not goons.

Yeah stick checker is a stick checker to me. All the same heap of junk harsh i know lol but i had nuff of them

 

[meefer]

Yeah stick checker is a stick checker to me. All the same heap of junk harsh i know lol but i had nuff of them

And you know a finished product/player after 45 games in the show? You're that good? Why are you not employed by a team in the NHL?

 

[justashadowof]

Yeah stick checker is a stick checker to me. All the same heap of junk harsh i know lol but i had nuff of them

Yep, Engvall's a stick checker. So is Nylander and several others including sadly Rielly for a good part of last season.