Confirmed with Link: Pierre Engvall signs 2 year extension (AAV: 1.25M)

ULF_55

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What we do know is that $1.25 mil is not AHL money that is for certain, and a team would even incur a proportion of that as a penalty to send him down against their NHL cap at that figure.

Paying a player like Engvall more to play in the AHL then you're paying some of your veteran NHLers to play in the NHL is a problem.

So based on the contract and amount one would think that Engvall is a part of the management plan beyond the pressbox in the NHL as well and expected to be a contributing member of Leafs 2020-21 team. .

Based on players who signed for cheap, everyone is overpaid.

However, anyone chasing this rabbit down this hole can be dismissed, they probably just need another package of Alcan.

I think Engvall can easily earn his contract. First year NHL players still have a lot to learn, and part of that is pacing.
 
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Buds17

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Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't Engvall's drastic decline last season coincide almost exactly with his move to center? After they moved Kerfoot up to the wing because of Mik's injury. I only remember this because I was moaning about Keefe moving him to center when he was killing it on the wing. And then he really never got it back for whatever reason.
Has Willy or Giraffe ever displayed a solid game playing center? Even once?

You could very well be right. I'm going by him finishing the CBJ series as the 4C. I suppose that could have been just from preferring him there to Gauthier - who obviously has since been let go - though? Perhaps he does become expendable then if they don't see him as being suitable for that role any longer? The team seems to be stocked well enough with those that are exclusively wingers.
 
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Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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And you know a finished product/player after 45 games in the show? You're that good? Why are you not employed by a team in the NHL?
He a cotton ball. Who cares what he is later. He’s soft as butter. You are seeing all these floaters gotten rid of by management. I don’t have to work for them. They seem to be figuring it out fine for themselves. Maybe you’ll catch on one day too.
 

justashadowof

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Aug 15, 2020
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Haha Engvall couldn’t carry eithers sticks. Haha talk about b s take
So much for my attempt at friendly "yes and". Now that I think about it, Engvall is pretty good. He might be alright for a stretch as the 3rd line center if injuries strike. That smooth effortless skating and long reach is useful on PK when he's in the lineup. I'm really liking the idea of seeing in the lineup. Definitely could end up pushing Spezza to the sidelines eventually. He could very well outproduce both Spezza and Simmonds this upcoming season. The dude's got an enviable head of hair and great posture. I'm really starting to feel good about number 47 becoming a regular in the 2020-21 season.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Engvall ZERO hits in 29 of his 52 games including 3 playoff games with ZERO hits. Thats pathetic. Useless. 16 times he had 1 hit in a game.
Thats so gross negligence by a player that just doesn’t give a damn about the team
 
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Wafflewhipper

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So much for my attempt at friendly "yes and". Now that I think about it, Engvall is pretty good. He might be alright for a stretch as the 3rd line center if injuries strike. That smooth effortless skating and long reach is useful on PK when he's in the lineup. I'm really liking the idea of seeing in the lineup. Definitely could end up pushing Spezza to the sidelines eventually. He could very well outproduce both Spezza and Simmonds this upcoming season. The dude's got an enviable head of hair and great posture. I'm really starting to feel good about number 47 becoming a regular in the 2020-21 season.
Yeah sure whatever you say. He’s worse than useless. 29 of 52 games including 3of4 playoff games had zero hits. Guys a clown
45 of 52 games has 1 hit or less. Hard to get less than 1 but he managed to do it 29 times. Complete garbage you would want that on your team
 

Cynical

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I'd love to see a clip of this happening even once, specifically the turnover in his own zone. You understand puck management is a system thing and not an Engvall thing right? If you actually watch a game you'll see all of our puck carriers turn around and regroup if there's nothing open.
Yes, except Engvall did this to an extreme. He would do this in terrible situations where opposing players were in his teams zone still. There is a system, but you have to be smart in that system. And I assure you he turned it over many times if YOU actually watched any games. I'm not going to go find a clip by watching for it. You can focus on it next time you see him play.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Engvall ZERO hits in 29 of his 52 games including 3 playoff games with ZERO hits. Thats pathetic. Useless. 16 times he had 1 hit in a game.
Thats so gross negligence by a player that just doesn’t give a damn about the team
This is mostly a Euro thing really. Not just on Engval. Da game has gotten much softer in case you haven't noticed. It may get to point where da fan base changes significantly. Da good ole days of TO/farm boys running rough over everyone else is long gone. It is largely skills based today. Da days of forwards skating down boards and D pounding them to concussion or until they can't go anymore are over. Da days of taking your stick and wrecking a guy so he can't move in front of net are over. Da days of wrapping a guys head into glass while tying him up are over. That stuff used to be allowed. No penalty unless you really hurt a guy bad. Even da easy elbow to da nose is a penalty today. You gotta get out POST covid and watch da kids play now it is so much faster and there is no interference on da fast guy anymore. Da days of da skilled Compuware team coming into town and they had given up by end of 1st because we abused them real bad are over. Now they come up here and we get killed on scoreboard. It has changed and changed massively over past 15 years.
 

axlrose87

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Jul 13, 2018
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If he is better than Vesey in training camp, he should take the job, but I don't know why we would go into the situation assuming that Vesey will fail.

Then why do you assume you know better than them?
Is this serious?
We signed a vet at near league minimum to compete with our youth for bottom six spots. No one is assuming vesey will fail but he isn’t very good to begin with. We are simply hoping that our rookie continues to improve and beats him out for the job.
Odds are he will. Rookies tend to get better. Failing vets tend to get worse.
I hope they both perform well but writing off a guy who has showed tremendous development in our organization after his first 45 games is downright embarrassing
 

Manymataka

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Jul 23, 2018
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A lot here have argued that the biggest problem with player contracts is that you are paying for past performance instead of what you project the player to do through the duration of the contract. I think his contract properly reflects who he can be for this team with a 3rd/4th line role with a potential to hit 12-15 goals and 30-40 points.

For those of you who have focused on his lack of physicality, he hasn't been that bad relative to the rest of the team. Also I don't know if some of these are novelty accounts, but the argument that Euros are the reason why the team is so soft to play against is completely false. Remember your American almost-captain was up for a Lady Byng (I'm fine with this, but this is based on your logic). Filtering on players that have played more than 15 games and averaged more than 10 min/game:

upload_2020-10-29_16-27-56.png
 
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Wafflewhipper

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This is mostly a Euro thing really. Not just on Engval. Da game has gotten much softer in case you haven't noticed. It may get to point where da fan base changes significantly. Da good ole days of TO/farm boys running rough over everyone else is long gone. It is largely skills based today. Da days of forwards skating down boards and D pounding them to concussion or until they can't go anymore are over. Da days of taking your stick and wrecking a guy so he can't move in front of net are over. Da days of wrapping a guys head into glass while tying him up are over. That stuff used to be allowed. No penalty unless you really hurt a guy bad. Even da easy elbow to da nose is a penalty today. You gotta get out POST covid and watch da kids play now it is so much faster and there is no interference on da fast guy anymore. Da days of da skilled Compuware team coming into town and they had given up by end of 1st because we abused them real bad are over. Now they come up here and we get killed on scoreboard. It has changed and changed massively over past 15 years.
I’m talking throwing a hit. You know the reason management didn’t take Gauthier back. Physical play I’m talking has nothing to do with illegal headshots or laying the lumber on. A hard team to play is one that pounds you within the rules. Thats all i want. I don’t want puff pastries playing for us. Its gotten us 4 straight first round exits
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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A lot here have argued that the biggest problem with player contracts is that you are paying for past performance instead of what you project the player to do through the duration of the contract. I think his contract properly reflects who he can be for this team with a 3rd/4th line role with a potential to hit 12-15 goals and 30-40 points.

For those of you who have focused on his lack of physicality, he hasn't been that bad relative to the rest of the team. Also I don't know if some of these are novelty accounts, but the argument that Euros are the reason why the team is so soft to play against is completely false. Remember your American almost-captain was up for a Lady Byng (I'm fine with this, but this is based on your logic). Filtering on players that have played more than 15 games and averaged more than 10 min/game:

View attachment 374746
He doesn’t help the team any more than a minimum salary player. Useless increase of cap hit. He makes $350,000 more than Vesey who he is not better than. Robertson is better and $430,000 cheaper. Then it’s $700,000 players he is competing with beyond them. He doesn’t improve our team cap wise or quality wise. Its pretty clear. $1,250,000 for defensive play is to much. He’s a mistake
 
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Manymataka

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Jul 23, 2018
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He doesn’t help the team any more than a minimum salary player. Useless increase of cap hit. He makes $350,000 more than Vesey who he is not better than. Robertson is better and $430,000 cheaper. Then it’s $700,000 players he is competing with beyond them. He doesn’t improve our team cap wise or quality wise. Its pretty clear. $1,250,000 for defensive play is to much. He’s a mistake

Apples and oranges. Engvall was signed before COVID and Vesey would certainly not have signed for the minimum had circumstances been different. Robertson is on a rookie contract. Robertson's contract is garbage because Matt Barzal only made $40K more than him last year, see how that game is played?

All players who signed an extension before March of 2020 will appear to be "overpaid" because of the unforeseeable circumstances of the pandemic. I don't think you can blame others for defending Engvall it's objectively false to call him a "useless tool of a player".
 

Menzinger

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There are multiple well-compensated individuals employed at MLSE who are tasked with doing exactly that sort of thing. In this case that 0.2% difference is a big deal and could be the difference between affording one extra skater and affording two extra skaters.

Though nobody could predict the impact of covid on the league, especially on depth player salaries.

And covid aside, the player is signed for 2 years - I suspect folks claiming he was overpaid can only come up with 1 year deals as comparables to prove their case.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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Apples and oranges. Engvall was signed before COVID and Vesey would certainly not have signed for the minimum had circumstances been different. Robertson is on a rookie contract. Robertson's contract is garbage because Matt Barzal only made $40K more than him last year, see how that game is played?

All players who signed an extension before March of 2020 will appear to be "overpaid" because of the unforeseeable circumstances of the pandemic. I don't think you can blame others for defending Engvall it's objectively false to call him a "useless tool of a player".
Your chart has 4 players on it the Leafs deemed expendable. A couple skill guys, Kappy and Johnsson were taking little or no cap back as Anderson is still not signed and Hallander is likely playing in Sweden a couple years. Both are solid Defensive players with grit as the return.They are the types being management’s preference in return. I think Engvall is now a cap casualty regardless of how you want to frame it. I live in the now. He is less important cap wise than it was to removed the medium cap guys $6,400,000. He is still not fitting in the cap and likely not fitting in to the style ofplay bottom six either.
He’s useless
 
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nuck

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I don't like the absence of contact but the real issue was 1 assist in his last 21 games. WTF? How do you manage to be so snake bit you can't pass to a guy who makes a primary assist? Usage and reduced ice time was a factor for sure but that really suggests the coach doesn't have much faith in him. Babcock didn't use him much and Keefe took a while to warm up but by mid December he was getting 15:00 a night and producing. Then the tap sort of got turned down for the minutes around the end of January. Under 10:00 in games against teams like Anaheim, SJ, Habs and LA so not like he was being protected.

I don't know what he is, based on that roller coaster but hopefully KD realizes that while Keefe is his boy, he won't play guys he doesn't like or doesn't trust. Until Pierre's scoring went dark he looked like a player as the first couple pages of this thread note. I think he is untradeable now so he either gets demoted or they give him some minutes to find his game again but they won't use him at center and the Russians and the old guys aren't going to sit for him. He will have to find his game quickly or he will be done.
 

Jozay

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Meh player.

Was completely invisible that last 15-20 games or so before the season was suspended.
 

Judas Tavares

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Let's face it, due to the Pandemic, any player making 7 figures has this place blowing their mind.
 

kk87

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Feb 12, 2015
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Just unfortunate timing; the Holl and Engvall deals both looked solid at the time, but we could've gotten the two of them for $1-$1.5 million less (aggregate) if we'd waited until the offseason. No way to have that foresight though, obviously
 

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