Pierre Dorion's trade tracker

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by Puikiou, Jun 20, 2018.

  1. BondraTime

    BondraTime Registered User

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    KK was fired because of how terrible he was, literally one of the worst coached and ran AHL franchises in history. I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue here?

    San Jose saw him when they had Meier in RN on a line with Perron, it's no surprise they asked for him, and now have put him in a position to succeed in the AHL, which he's doing.

    You didn't see Batherson start off on the 4th line this year and get healthy scratched in favor of nobodies. He was put in a position to succeed, which he is doing.

    He never moved Perron for Balcers, Perron was a throw in with Karlsson. If it was a trade for Balcers, sure that would be a win, but that's not even close to what it was.
     
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  2. aragorn

    aragorn #Boucherout

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    Every coach is hired to be eventually fired, that is just the way of sports. Bingo had some rough yrs & had some good yrs as every team does, but not everything is his fault. I would accuse the Sens management more than him for the players they brought in & how they managed their minor league team, although how players are developed falls on the coaches, management & the player.

    It will be interesting to see how this turns out, he is doing well there so far this yr but I don't see Perron as an NHL player, do you?
     
  3. swiftwin

    swiftwin #melnykout

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    I also remember the backlash when Lindberg was let go.....
     
  4. BondraTime

    BondraTime Registered User

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    KK has been here for 2 seasons since he left. He's been beyond terrible that whole time.

    2nd last overall in 2016-17
    3rd last overall in 2017-18

    Over that time, our player development has been beyond horrific, of which Perron is a prime example.

    I don't know what Perron is going to become, I don't think he's very far behind Balcers who seems to be thought of highly here.
     
  5. swiftwin

    swiftwin #melnykout

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    That's not how it works. Players don't sprout magically. They need development time, they need good playing minutes in a good developmental environment. Good minutes at the AHL level have value. You don't just give those to anyone. Perron wasn't getting that here. He was as the bottom of the totem pole. Warranted? Maybe. Maybe not. Only KK knows.

    How would it work if we kept Perron? Would he be getting minutes ahead of Batherson? Brown? Chlapik? Balcers? If not, he would not be flourishing like he is in San Antonio right now. San Jose's organizational depth is very thin compared to ours. It should not be a surprise that he's doing well for them.

    Identifying talent is only half of the equation. Developing is the other half.
     
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  6. aragorn

    aragorn #Boucherout

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    It's not that bad, KK won a Calder in his first yr & the team missed the playoffs in his second yr. Luke Richardson took over the team for the next 4 seasons, remember him? In his first two seasons Bingo was in the playoffs & out of the playoffs for the next two seasons, was he terrible as well at developing players? Luke moved on & KK was hired back for two yrs in Belleville & the team sucked, they just didn't have enough good players.

    However, Hoffman did well under KK along with a number of players who went on to have decent to good NHL careers but KK was not the guy in charge of acquiring players that's on the GM. Look at their lineups it's no surprise they weren't that good even under Richardson & Mann might miss the playoffs too? I believe the saying goes that you are only as good as your players or you only go as far as your players take you. I don't think the Sens are the only AHL affiliate to have a poor record over the yrs either. It's more important to develop players for the NHL team than to have your farm team with a winning record every yr. This org has an AHL championship with KK as the head coach, we'll see if they ever get another one in future with someone else.
     
  7. BondraTime

    BondraTime Registered User

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    Why are we bringing up seasons that occurred 5 years ago?

    The Sens farm team has been the butt of the joke for the past 2 seasons, in which KK played a direct hand in.

    The bolded part at the bottom is the exact reason that KK has been terrible, as has the franchise. It had been terrible for prospects and development, which is why he was canned. We weren't developing our guys, we were playing scrubs with no value to the franchise.
     
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  8. aragorn

    aragorn #Boucherout

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    Those same scrubs GB brought to play in Ottawa, KK was not responsible for acquiring players, he was responsible to coach & develop the players he got, he was trying to win games including playing GB's systems last yr. This org has developed a number of NHL players, job done, they just haven't won a lot of games at the AHL level but do have one championship in the books. I agree they were playing scrubs but those were the players this org acquired, I wish they would stop bringing in these vets but every team does it & plays them.
     
  9. BondraTime

    BondraTime Registered User

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    It has nothing to do with winning or losing (again, 2nd and 3rd last), it has to do with being a terrible, beyond terrible, place for our actual prospects for the past 2/3 years, in which KK has played a direct hand in. I know he was responsible to coach and develop them, that's been my point. He's been beyond awful at that, which was the reason he was canned.

    It doesn't matter what he did a decade ago or the Championship they won. It has to do with his work over the past 2 years, which was horrific.
     
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  10. DaveMatthew

    DaveMatthew Registered User

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    There's no reason for why he wouldn't be playing a top 6 role alongside those players. If the organization didn't think he was good enough to get that ice time in the AHL, well that's just poor evaluation and ice time allocation on their part.

    And let's not pretend the Belleville is stacked with prospects that there's no room for anyone. The only guys on that roster who have any type of NHL future are Batherson, Brown, Chlapik, Balcers and Wolanin. That's 5 players on the entire team, surrounded by Jack Rodewald, Paul Carey, Adam Tambellini, Stuart Percy, Chase Balisy, Jordan Murray, Eric Burgdoerfer, etc.

    The San Jose Barracuda have 17 players 22 or under. Belleville has 8. San Jose has 2 players 25 or over. Belleville has 11.

    San Jose treats their farm team as a development arm. That's why they can consistently replenish their NHL roster, even without premier prospects. We treat our farm team as who knows what.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
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  11. Sens of Anarchy

    Sens of Anarchy Registered User

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  12. Tuna99

    Tuna99 Registered User

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    I still say Dorion has a harder job then Keith Gretzky (aka ‘The Keith One’) - Edmonton has to much help and to many men on the line, the ownershipnos stable and they are in a new arena and flush with cash and the best player in the NHL.
     
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  13. topshelf15

    topshelf15 Registered User

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    Give us some money ,and I think we could turn it around faster
     
  14. Tnuoc Alucard

    Tnuoc Alucard There's more than 1 side to any story or issue.

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    After Derrik Brassard was traded today..... I was wondering what Ottawa eventually ended up with, after they traded Mike Zibanejad and a 2018 2nd rounder.

    From what I can remember, they have Filip Gustavsson, Nick Moutrey, Jacob Bernard-Docker, Luke Loheit, a 2019 3rd rounder, and a 2020 3rd rounder to show for it.

    Is this correct, or did I miss something?
     
  15. Icelevel

    Icelevel -+-+-*-+-*-+-=???

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    I think you missed something
     
  16. Bean Drown

    Bean Drown Registered User

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    From twitter:

    Trading Duchene at the deadline:
    TO OTHER TEAMS:
    Matt Duchene
    Kyle Turris
    Shane Bowers
    Lotto pick
    3rd Round Pick

    TO OTT:
    A contender’s late 1st round pick, maybe a prospect they can spare
    Game...Dorion
     
  17. Gesus

    Gesus Melnyk drove me to the Flames

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    So there is a trade out there that Dorion and Melnyk didn't completely fail at. Huh, who knew.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  18. Alf Silfversson

    Alf Silfversson Registered User

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    Johnny Tychonick would be included I believe.
     
  19. Fenix Rises 2026

    Fenix Rises 2026 Alfie forever!

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    It's double dipping to count both Duchene and what we paid for Duchene on the same side of that ledger.

    TO OTHER TEAMS:
    Kyle Turris, Shane Bowers, Lotto Pick, 3rd Round Pick

    TO OTT:
    1+ Years of Duchene, Relief from Hammond's Contract, Duchene's Return at Deadline

    We obviously still got hosed on this one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  20. darnok

    darnok Registered User

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    Only the lotto pick is significant
     
  21. Cosmix

    Cosmix Registered User

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    We need to be different, daring and innovative. Playing the younger players is going to give them more ice time and experience in all situations. I strongly believe in skill development which requires a lot of on-ice practice time particularly for puck-handling, passing, shooting, etc. Some of the Senator’s players lack puck skills and cannot shoot the puck very well (one-timers, etc.).
     
  22. Tnuoc Alucard

    Tnuoc Alucard There's more than 1 side to any story or issue.

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    Ottawa trades Max McCormick to the Avalanche, for Jean-Christophe Beaudin
     
  23. Sens

    Sens Registered User

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    Doug Wilson Jr., Roy Sommer and scouts talk Barracuda prospects

    Wilson Jr., on notion that Perron was just a “throw-in” in Erik Karlsson trade:

    We targeted him in the Ottawa trade as the extra piece.
    There’s no such thing as a throw-in in an NHL trade. From a scouting perspective, front office perspective, there’s no such thing as a throw-in.
    He was a 100-point guy with Timo Meier [in the QMJHL] that we thought would excel in a different spot. It’s a credit to the scouts.
    When people say it’s a throw-in, I see it as a disservice to our scouts. They put in a ton of work to go find a guy, a diamond in the rough-type guy.
    _____

    He’s basically saying the Sharks stole Perron
     
  24. Sensung

    Sensung Registered User

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    And he’s correct.
     
  25. Ice-Tray

    Ice-Tray Registered User

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    That’s potentially good news for SJ, as there is a decent chance that he ends up being all they have to show for the EK trade next year.
     

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