Pick your favourite top 9

[Xspyrit]

I see you're also getting rid of a number of guys currently on the roster & in the org. You have Duclair & C. Brown still on the roster but in your own words mentioned in another thread that Ottawa could have an entire team under 25 yrs old soon which btw was something EM said a yr or two ago.

There are a number of players in this org that IMO could be moved sooner rather than later & a few that could be moved later rather than sooner. Duclair & C. Brown are two players that could be moved later while the list of players who could be moved sooner are the UFAs & guys like Tierny, Reilly & Balcers. Anisimov & Nilsson could be moved by the TDL & given this pandemic I don't see a need for PD to re-sign Boro or Anderson.

Chlapik is another bubble guy who has been in the AHL for a few yrs & if he can't make the team this coming season could be another guy on his way out. I also think with the plethora of goalies that a goalie could be moved this yr as well, my guess Gustavsson in a package. A few more AHL guys I think don't have a future in Ottawa are Davidsson, Beaudin, Abramov, Alsing, Carcone & maybe Kelly. It might not all happen this yr but over the course of the next three yrs I expect that most of these guys should be gone. Zub is wait & see, Ryan could get moved before his contract expires or in the last yr & Zaitsev could be another guy moved later since he has a lot of term left. Ryan & Zaitsev could be bought out at some point too. Certainly interesting times.

Yes I said that but not to the point that I would nitpick to that level. Connor Brown turned 26 y/o a few months ago. He's the oldest guy from what could be the new guard. He's already here and pretty useful/versatile, won't cost a lot of money or assets to acquire (like it would be for Monahan in that other thread as it was asked if the 5th OA pick could be in play for Monahan). Really different contexts.

In my scenario, like everybody, I have little idea to what will happen in reality, so many question marks, so many possibilities. But I'm not "getting rid" in a number of guys, I have listed the guys that I think have the better chance plus the 2 guys from the top-5 (very hard to get busts in the top-5 nowadays, scouting has really evolved, and even less in this top notch draft). I have the famous 7 guys as you do, plus Brown, Duclair and White who I think will be kept until at least better options are found.

In the case of Balcers, Abramov, Chlapik (and even Crookshank, Gruden, etc), they would have to prove to be more valuable (always vs their cost) than the 12 forwards I have mentionned

When you're talking about "a number of players in this org that could be moved sooner rather than later" based on what EM said, did you already forgot who got moved? Heck, IIRC only Boro, Anderson and Ryan are left from the team that went to the ECF just 3 years ago.... Let that sink in. I don't need to make a list, just take a look at this :

History of NHL trades by the Ottawa Senators - NHL Trade Tracker

They are NOT going to REBUILD the rebuild. If they do, it will be in a few years after realizing/admitting that this rebuild was a total fail, which I really doubt unless they screw up this draft big time

Finally, I doubt Ryan gets bought out, he has 2 years left and the upcoming might start late in 2020 or at the beginning of 2021... He is apparently a nice guy to be around, his story from last year is an inspiration and he helps to reach the cap floor, something that is not necessarily easy for the Sens at the moment. Plu he brings some skill and experience to a line-up that is in development. At worst, he is holding a spot for a guy that will eventually be ready (ex : Pinto). Plus it doesn't accomplish much financially so I don't see the reason why the Sens would buy him out.

I don't find it particularly crazy that Chlapik might need to be traded to get a regular NHL job. He's a borderline NHL player, and Balcers and Abramov might be in the same category.

Yes the use of the word "crazy" was hyperrbolic. I meant to say that a massive logjam is coming up and some guys won't really have a chance but would have to prove themselves on another team.

 

[aragorn]

I'm not sure what you are agreeing to as we are not saying the same thing at all... First, you know that the Sens picks won't look even close to what you suggested. Maybe Byfield but you'd be lucky (and happy) if another one becomes an Ottawa Senator, not to mention it would be shocking (and counter-productive IMO) to select Sanderson at #5 and Askarov at #10 (if the Sens manage to add that pick, which woud cost a pretty penny). Yes the Isles pick could be expected to be #21 (for now). You're right, it's possible that the Sens are high on Sanderson, and it's also possible that they go with 1 fwd and 1 D-man even though IMO they should go with the 2 BFA (2 Best Forwards Available)

Byfield (#3)
Sanderson (#5)
Askarov (#10)
Schneider (#21)
Kleven (#33)
Dufour (#46)
Cuylle (#52)
Peterson (#53)
Hans (#64) / Prokop (#64)
Trineev (#74)
Coe (#95)

I don't know which season was your suggested line-up but even if it's i 3-4 years, I really doubt 57% of the line-up will be including picks from this draft...

In your suggested line-up, I see that all of Duclair, Balcers, Connor Brown, Tierney, Chlapik, White and Hawryluk are gone but some of them will probably still be there and it's far from a garantee that all your picks will be more worthy of a roster spot.

Yes, Tierny, Ryan Anisimov & Reilly should be expected to be moved out in the near future, and even Zaitsev eventually. Also possible for Duclair and Connor Brown but they could kept as part of the future core going forward. We'll have to wait and see for that

At least, you have probably the 7 of the main young forwards in your line-up (Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Brown, Formenton, Pinto and Paul). I understand you're not high on the others not in your line-up but guys like White, Duclair, Brown, Balcers, Abramov, Hawryluk, Chlapik, Crookshank, Gruden, etc will also push to keep their spot or claim a spot. I wouldn't expect ALL OF THEM to fail or be traded. I really doubt all of those 2nd/3rd round picks in 2020 will beat them out to take their place in the future plans.

Same on defense, you have NONE of Brannstrom, Thomson, Wolanin, Zub, Alsing, Jaros, Lajoie and Guenette. You can be sure some of them will succeed. I really doubt all of them fail or get traded to leave space for those guys selected in your draft scenario...

Finally, regarding your last quote " Of course, it won't all happen over night but over the course of the next 3 to 5 yrs IMO where this team replaces most of the players they have now"

You're basically suggesting that the Sens REBUILD THE REBUILD? Sure, the line-up is far from a finished product but I don't think your suggested scenario is more realistic than having to see some of these players being part of the future plans, actually the opposite.

I'm suggesting it's all part of the same rebuild. How many players on their roster now are part of the future of this team when they have suggested that most of their players will be under 25 yrs old? They aren't going to be very good next season & hopefully should start contending for a playoff spot the yr after, if lucky. But it doesn't mean they will make the playoffs in two yrs. It might take a yr longer than that & that's 3 seasons from now & meanwhile these guys are getting older & their prospects are getting closer to being NHL ready. The NHL is getting younger, faster & prospects are making the big leagues quicker than ever before & they have a lot of good early picks in this draft & more in the next draft & likely more in the 2022 draft too.

This IMO is their core & ages now moving forward - Tkachuk (20), White (23), Batherson (22), Duclair (24), C. Brown (26), Chabot (23), Hogberg (25) & maybe Wolanin (25) & Paul (25). Potential future core players L. Brown (22), Norris (21), Formenton (20), Brannstrom (20), Thomson (19), Gustavsson (22), Daccord (23), Pinto (19) & JBD (20). And of course not all will make it & some that I don't have in the lineup could make it. Nothing is written in stone with your lineup or mine. How many of these guys will still be on the team in 3 to 5 yrs? Maybe 12 to 15?

I don't see this rebuild ending after this yr, but continuing for at least another few yrs, at least until they are a playoff team. I also don't think that every player drafted in this draft will be on the team, some will fail & not be. But there is a draft every yr & they have a good number of picks in the next draft & after moving more players out this yr will have more picks for next yr & beyond. Some of these players will make the team sooner & some later & some not at all.

Of course, the Sens aren't going to pick all the guys I suggested, they won't pick a number of guys many have suggested either, but they might pick some. By the time this team is ready to challenge for a SC I think most of the current roster will likely be gone which could take 5 yrs or more. That's why the youngest prospects who are considered future players will likely be the ones on the roster with the better prospects & players who are on the team & they will be the vets on the team. Out with the old core & in with the new core over the course of 3 to 5 yrs or more to establish the NEW team that will challenge for a SC. That's how I see it developing.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'm suggesting it's all part of the same rebuild. How many players on their roster now are part of the future of this team when they have suggested that most of their players will be under 25 yrs old? They aren't going to be very good next season & hopefully should start contending for a playoff spot the yr after, if lucky. But it doesn't mean they will make the playoffs in two yrs. It might take a yr longer than that & that's 3 seasons from now & meanwhile these guys are getting older & their prospects are getting closer to being NHL ready. The NHL is getting younger, faster & prospects are making the big leagues quicker than ever before.

In that sense, most will be under 25 years old at the exception of maybe Duclair, Nilsson and Connor Brown. And there's going to be veteran placeholders in the meantime too (like Ryan and Zaitsev)

As for getting good and when, at the moment I have really no idea. I need to see what the draft looks like, how this guy impact the team, how Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, JBD, Formenton, etc develop. Hopefully, we have a better idea during next season as we see the young guns progress.

But like you are saying, the league is getting younger so these guys are going to get the chance to make their mark sooner than later. I think we have been patient enough in most cases and have been bringing them in slowly.

This IMO is their core & ages now moving forward - Tkachuk (20), White (23), Batherson (22), Duclair (24), C. Brown (26), Chabot (23), Hogberg (25) & maybe Wolanin (25) & Paul (25). Potential future core players L. Brown (22), Norris (21), Formenton (20), Brannstrom (20), Thomson (19), Gustavsson (22), Daccord (23), Pinto (19) & JBD (20). And of course not all will make it & some that I don't have in the lineup could make it. Nothing is written in stone with your lineup or mine. How many of these guys will still be on the team in 3 to 5 yrs? Maybe 12 to 15?

I don't see this rebuild ending after this yr, but continuing for at least another few yrs, at least until they are a playoff team. I also don't think that every player drafted in this draft will be on the team, some will fail & not be. But there is a draft every yr & they have a good number of picks in the next draft & after moving more players out this yr will have more picks for next yr & beyond. Some of these players will make the team sooner & some later & some not at all.

Of course, the Sens aren't going to pick all the guys I suggested, they won't pick a number of guys many have suggested either, but they might pick some. By the time this team is ready to challenge for a SC I think most of the current roster will likely be gone which could take 5 yrs or more. That's why the youngest prospects who are considered future players will likely be the ones on the roster with the better prospects & players who are on the team & they will be the vets on the team. Out with the old core & in with the new core over the course of 3 to 5 yrs or more to establish the NEW team that will challenge for a SC. That's how I see it developing.

I don't disagree with that, it's basically what I was saying, but nonetheless, I see the chance being 0% that the future roster will be made 57% of players from this draft, like you suggested earlier. It was my point.

A rebuild doesn't need to "end". It begins when you start shipping out several veterans that were a big part of your team (2018 TD with Phaneuf then Brassard, then Hoffman + Karlsson in the summer, then Dzingel, Stone and Duchene during the season. Finally Pageau last year). I believe after this draft, the Sens will have enough quality forwards and D-men to have their "future team". Then it's a matter of development, chemistry, coaching, goaltending, etc. Sure, some guys drafted after 2020 could eventually come in and "steal a spot" but that would only be if they can upgrade the team. I don't think they will make the playoffs next season but I also don't see them being "bad" much longer... IMO, we will see clear progressions next season and the team will rise again.

It doesn't mean all will be fixed and great going forward, we might still have the worst ownership in the league, which eventually bites you in the ass. Also, gate revenue will have to drastically rise to be able to stay competitive in the most expensive league in the world.... so a downtown arena will eventually be needed

At least we agree on 7 forwards (Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Brown, Formenton, Pinto and Paul) and 2 D-men (Chabot, JBD) as to who shoud be there in 3-5 years