Pick one - One #1 Overall Pick or 2 Presidents Trophy in the next 5 years?

Pick one - One #1 Overall Pick or 2 Presidents Trophy in the next 5 years?


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    214

Krewe

Registered User
Mar 12, 2019
1,676
1,917
It's a fair point, but the fact is that it's never in the same year, and the teams that have won multiple cups in that time span, have had a 1st overall. So in this hypothetical, you aren't even getting a 1st overall pick. So really you would need a president's trophy win AND a first overall pick. If you have won 2 president's trophys over a 5 year span, that chances that you're drafting high enough to obtain that pick are extremely low.

Also, you're forgetting Ovechkin - 2018.
Ovi was pre lockout but yes him too
 

Ducks in a row

Go Ducks Quack Quack
Dec 17, 2013
18,004
4,356
U.S.A.
2 President Trophies over the next 5 years because that would mean our prospects and young NHL'er become as good as we hoped they would leading us into a new age of great Ducks hockey.
 
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SheldonJPlankton

Registered User
Sponsor
Oct 30, 2006
2,560
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Two President Trophies are the equivalent of two regular season championships. Plus, a President Trophy winner is almost assuredly a legitimate Stanley Cup contender.

Having a first overall makes a team, what...the equivalent of today's Toronto? Above-average...but far short of a true contender.

I'll take the trophies over years of overhyped mediocrity.
 

Alexander the Gr8

Registered User
May 2, 2013
31,593
12,652
Toronto
President’s Trophies any day for me. The first overall pick could be Crosby, Ovechkin or McDavid, but it could also be RNH, Ekblad or Yakupov.

There’s no substitute to success. Winning the PT twice in a span of 5 years means your team is a top contender for the Cup during that time window and likely wins one.

Even if they don’t win the Cup, winning PTs means you are putting a winning product on the ice, allows you to grow the fan base and generate more revenue. PT winning teams always fill their stadium, because people will pay a good price to see a winning team.
 

Ingvar

Registered User
Jan 16, 2016
675
130
Moscow
Let’s put it like that: since 2000 only 5 first overall picks have won a cup: Fleury, Ovechkin, Crosby, Kane and Stamkos - this is group is way better than your average 1st overall pick and the last one of them was drafted in 2008. Some of these guys are already retired from the league. Teams that win president’s trophy twice in 5 years are way rarer and have a greater chance to win a cup.
 

treple13

Registered User
Sep 1, 2013
2,818
1,504
This is stupid and a no brainer. Would you rather be an excellent hockey team with a great chance at a Cup, or a bad hockey that maybe could be good sometime?

One President's trophy vs. two first overalls would be a better question
 

Dan Kelly

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
2,530
926
One President's trophy vs. two first overalls would be a better question

i'd take the President's Trophy all day every day ! see, my Oilers had like 4 #1 overalls, Nail, Hall, Nuge and MVP McDavid, a 3rd Overall, MVP Leon, a 4th overall, Puljujarvi, and a 7th overall, Nurse, during the Decade Of Doom and haven't been able to win much yet ! o_O
 

Hischier and Hughes

“I love to hockey”
Jan 28, 2018
9,408
4,357
As a Devils fan I choose the 1st overall pick for obvious reasons!

Also a 1st overall is crucial for any team - a contender winning 1st overall can extend the longevity of their franchise’s window most likely
 
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CanadienShark

Registered User
Dec 18, 2012
37,357
10,608
Trophy for sure. That means you're already the type of team you hope a #1 overall pick can help turn your team into.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
22,704
10,812
Kane County, IL
Crosby is a generational player.

No 1st overall since 2008 has a Cup or a Presidents' Trophy.

Question comes down to if you want a guaranteed good player, or a (double) guaranteed good team.
Stamkos was 1st overall in 08. He has a president's trophy from last year and a cup from this year, even if he didn't play a huge role due to injury. He still played a game in the final.

Move your years by one, and you'd be correct.
 

SotasicA

Registered User
Aug 25, 2014
8,489
6,402
Stamkos was 1st overall in 08. He has a president's trophy from last year and a cup from this year, even if he didn't play a huge role due to injury. He still played a game in the final.

Move your years by one, and you'd be correct.
Huh?

There is a reason I picked 2008. No first overall since 2008 has a Cup or a Presidents' Trophy (note: it's not the President's Trophy, there were multiple presidents), ie. this has not happened since 2008. 2009 is the first occurrance when it hasn't happened.

Like how Trump hasn't won an election since 2016.
 

Kaners Bald Spot

Registered User
Dec 6, 2011
22,704
10,812
Kane County, IL
Huh?

There is a reason I picked 2008. No first overall since 2008 has a Cup or a Presidents' Trophy (note: it's not the President's Trophy, there were multiple presidents), ie. this has not happened since 2008. 2009 is the first occurrance when it hasn't happened.

Like how Trump hasn't won an election since 2016.

2008 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com
Stamkos was #1 in 2008. He has a PT and a SC, as of now
 

Spade

Resident Tool
Mar 12, 2014
874
167
Digging a Hole
It's a fair point, but the fact is that it's never in the same year, and the teams that have won multiple cups in that time span, have had a 1st overall. So in this hypothetical, you aren't even getting a 1st overall pick. So really you would need a president's trophy win AND a first overall pick. If you have won 2 president's trophys over a 5 year span, that chances that you're drafting high enough to obtain that pick are extremely low.

Also, you're forgetting Ovechkin - 2018.

Who cares about the first pick when you are guaranteed a 2-9 year window of contention? The Presidents' Trophy winner only wins the Cup 8 out of 35 times in the same year the team wins the Presidents' Trophy. But if you extend the range to include either the 4 years before or 4 years after winning the Trophy, 24 out of 33 Presidents' Trophy winners have eventually won the Stanley Cup while they were still in their window of contention. Nashville 2018 and Boston 2020 still have a few years of wait-and-see, but even then both of those teams had made the Stanley Cup finals at some point in the window around their Presidents' Trophy season. If we narrow the range down to teams that won 2 Presidents' Trophies in a 5 year span, 8 out of 9 teams that won Presidents' Trophies twice in a span of 5 years have won Stanley Cups, and the lone team that didn't (Vancouver 2011 and 2012) made it to Game 7 of the Cup finals.

On the flip side, since 1985-86 (the first year the Presidents' Trophy was awarded) only 7 1st overall picks have gone on to win the Stanley Cup while playing for the team that drafted them at any point in their entire career. That's even less than the number of teams that won a Presidents' Trophy and a Stanley Cup in the same year. Those 7 players (Mike Modano, Vincent Lecavalier, Marc-Andre Fleury, Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Patrick Kane, and Steven Stamkos) are also the only 1st overall selections to have even made it to the Stanley Cup finals with their original team, unless you want to include Eric Lindros (whose selection and subsequent trade led to the Avs winning a Cup twice and the Flyers making it to the Finals once).

I'll take a 100% chance of making it to the Championship round and an 89% chance of winning at least 1 title over a 1st overall pick any day. Being the best regular season team in the league guarantees you a chance. Doing it twice means it's not a fluke, and ensures you are going to be a contender for a 5-9 year window. Obviously currently contending teams would love to take the player and poor teams would rather take the guaranteed opportunity, but in a nutshell ignoring teams and starting a franchise from scratch with a magic wish granting genie there's no way I prioritize the 1st overall pick over guaranteed success and contention.
 
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TheBloodyNine

Pure Bred Soviet Savage
Oct 8, 2016
10,466
8,894
Queens
Who cares about the first pick when you are guaranteed a 2-9 year window of contention? The Presidents' Trophy winner only wins the Cup 8 out of 35 times in the same year the team wins the Presidents' Trophy. But if you extend the range to include either the 4 years before or 4 years after winning the Trophy, 24 out of 33 Presidents' Trophy winners have eventually won the Stanley Cup while they were still in their window of contention. Nashville 2018 and Boston 2020 still have a few years of wait-and-see, but even then both of those teams had made the Stanley Cup finals at some point in the window around their Presidents' Trophy season. If we narrow the range down to teams that won 2 Presidents' Trophies in a 5 year span, 8 out of 9 teams that won Presidents' Trophies twice in a span of 5 years have won Stanley Cups, and the lone team that didn't (Vancouver 2011 and 2012) made it to Game 7 of the Cup finals.

On the flip side, since 1985-86 (the first year the Presidents' Trophy was awarded) only 7 1st overall picks have gone on to win the Stanley Cup while playing for the team that drafted them at any point in their entire career. That's even less than the number of teams that won a Presidents' Trophy and a Stanley Cup in the same year. Those 7 players (Mike Modano, Vincent Lecavalier, Marc-Andre Fleury, Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Patrick Kane, and Steven Stamkos) are also the only 1st overall selections to have even made it to the Stanley Cup finals with their original team, unless you want to include Eric Lindros (whose selection and subsequent trade led to the Avs winning a Cup twice and the Flyers making it to the Finals once).

I'll take a 100% chance of making it to the Championship round and an 89% chance of winning at least 1 title over a 1st overall pick any day. Being the best regular season team in the league guarantees you a chance. Doing it twice means it's not a fluke, and ensures you are going to be a contender for a 5-9 year window. Obviously currently contending teams would love to take the player and poor teams would rather take the guaranteed opportunity, but in a nutshell ignoring teams and starting a franchise from scratch with a magic wish granting genie there's no way I prioritize the 1st overall pick over guaranteed success and contention.
Yeah, I mean I can move the goalposts to make my argument more sound as well like you did, but I don't have to.
 

The Beyonder

Registered User
Jan 16, 2007
7,006
2,165
I like the mental gymnastics of some posters believing that being the best team 2/5 years doesn't mean a guaranteed Stanley Cup in the future but somehow that having the 1st overall pick is a better output towards a cup instead.

If you're the best team 2/5 teams, that means you're probably a top team in those other 3 years and you're probably a stanley cup contender year in and year out. People's obsession with 1st overall picks are clouding their judgement. I don't understand how the result isn't very lopsided, the answer is obvious.
 

Spade

Resident Tool
Mar 12, 2014
874
167
Digging a Hole
Yeah, I mean I can move the goalposts to make my argument more sound as well like you did, but I don't have to.

???
So a genie comes to you and say you can pick between one of two things:

1. Your team will win a #1 overall draft pick, in the next 5 years (which year - this is random - it could mean McDavid or could mean Yakupov equivalent, or somewhere in between). This also doesn't necessarily mean you suck and tank, maybe you trade for a pick and get lucky.

2. Your team will win the president's trophy twice in the next 5 years. Again - random occurrence which 2 years. President Trophy doesn't guarantee a cup - but usually it means you're a strong contender, the rest being up to you.


Which option do you pick, and why?

Listen, I'm a Flames fan, we have a lot of contact with the Oilers, and they're the Lottery champs.

I promise you they would trade all of their 1st overall picks in the last decade (including McDavid) for a 5 year window of guaranteed contention that includes at least 2 years where they're the prohibitive favorites to win it all. And historically those teams win it all at least once, as proven by the data.

I'm a big believer in building through the draft and picking high to get the most elusive assets in the NHL (legitimate star players), otherwise I'm not on this website. But those high picks are a tool to get the real goal, which is building a championship team. If I had to choose between a guaranteed contender versus a player that "might help" me become a contender eventually, then why am I waiting around for the latter when I can just take the former?
 
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