Pick one - One #1 Overall Pick or 2 Presidents Trophy in the next 5 years?

[Fig]

President's Trophy, tank the hell out of the first 3 seasons. This causes the likelihood of hitting the President's Trophy in the later years and having young elite talent to try for win in the final sprint.

Swap first rounders with bubble teams knowing you've got slightly higher odds for winning the lottery (ie: Colorado).

Profit extra beyond the guaranteed 5 years of this magical deal?

 

[Byron Bitz]

I’ll pick the presidents trophy because that means my team is really good

 

[Krewe]

Crosby is a generational player.

No 1st overall since 2008 has a Cup or a Presidents' Trophy.

Question comes down to if you want a guaranteed good player, or a (double) guaranteed good team.

Of course, of the #1 picks from '04 to '08, all but one have won a cup AND a presidents trophy. But I think that trend was an outlier

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

As others have said, 2 presidents trophies in 5 years means the team is in cup contention. With the 1st OA you're hoping your team reaches that level.

 

[tony d]

I went with Option 2.

 

[ricky0034]

i'd be really curious to see what a Wings team that wins 2 Presidents trophies in the next 5 years without getting a 1st overall soon would even look like

 

[Fig]

i'd be really curious to see what a Wings team that wins 2 Presidents trophies in the next 5 years without getting a 1st overall soon would even look like

"Unsustainable"

 

[SotasicA]

i'd be really curious to see what a Wings team that wins 2 Presidents trophies in the next 5 years without getting a 1st overall soon would even look like

A bunch of 2nd and 3rd overalls will do fine. And trading. And even later picks maturing into star players.

A 1st overall alone means zilch.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

President's trophy.

At the very least, it means the team is close to the ultimate prize and has a good core of stars to work with.

Even if you don't win, a few tweaks here and there will likely get the job done.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Winning the Presidents Trophy twice in 5 years is a pretty good indicator that you're competing for the cup for those 5 years which is a pretty good indicator you'll win at least 1 cup in those 5 years. So, I'll take that all day.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Presidents cup very easily. That means you are a top level team and have a very very good chance of winning the cup in that 5 year period.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

President's trophy means your team is cup contenders over the span of 5 years...1st overall means your team is the worst and near it. Only on HF would this be an actual question.

I totally agree with you but I wonder if it makes sense for bad teams to take the first overall pick. Of course this is a murky area because they're obviously no longer bad teams as they're winning the President's Trophy. But say you're Detroit, there's no way that roster is winning the cup President's Trophy or not.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

President Trophy doesn't really mean much. I mean it's a nice regular season accomplishment, but no one remembers it aside from when there's epic failure in the playoffs (such as getting swept in the first round as President Trophy winners).

Voted first overall pick.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Idk bro, so basically hope the first overall pick can make your team as good as one that has won the presidents trophy twice in 5 years?...

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The pick. President's trophy is not dispositive of winning the cup.

 

[SotasicA]

The pick. President's trophy is not dispositive of winning the cup.

So you got your Hischier/RNH/Hall/Ekblad/Hughes. Now what? You still suck. How is that closer to the Cup than the Presidents' Trophy?

 

[82Ninety42011]

The goal is to win the Cup not suck so I'll take the President's Trophy. At least your already a contender then and have a chance to win it all.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

So you got your Hischier/RNH/Hall/Ekblad/Hughes. Now what? You still suck. How is that closer to the Cup than the Presidents' Trophy?

So you got your Presidents Trophy. Now what? You still have to win 4 playoff rounds. In 35 years the presidents trophy winners have only won The cup 8 times. 7 times the presidents trophy’s winner has been eliminated in the first round. Presidents trophy is not dispositive of winning. Winning in the regular season isn’t indicative of playoff success as we saw in 2019. What is dispositive is building a team with elite talent in it. That only comes from the top of the draft.

 

[SotasicA]

That only comes from the top of the draft.

Or by trading. You don't need a first overall to win a Cup.

8 Cups in 35 years sounds like pretty damn good odds. Especially if you get to roll the dice twice!

Now look at your first overall picks in the last 35 years. Clark, Murphy, Turgeon, Sundin, Nolan, Lindros, Hamrlik, Daigle, Jovanovski, Berard, Phillips, Thornton, Stefan, DiPietro, Kovalchuk, Nash etc and all the success it brought them. Nobody picked 1st since 2008 has a Cup.

In fact, picking 1st doesn't even mean your team will be ANY good.

But winning the Presidents' Trophy (twice!) guarantees you WILL have a GOOD, GOOD hockey team. A team that can make a run, and possibly succeed. Deep playoff runs, home ice advantage, a balanced well built roster with depth. That's what the Presidents' Trophy implies. Much better than one single good player.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Or by trading. You don't need a first overall to win a Cup.

8 Cups in 35 years sounds like pretty damn good odds. Especially if you get to roll the dice twice!

Now look at your first overall picks in the last 35 years. Clark, Murphy, Turgeon, Sundin, Nolan, Lindros, Hamrlik, Daigle, Jovanovski, Berard, Phillips, Thornton, Stefan, DiPietro, Kovalchuk, Nash etc and all the success it brought them. Nobody picked 1st since 2008 has a Cup.

In fact, picking 1st doesn't even mean your team will be ANY good.

But winning the Presidents' Trophy (twice!) guarantees you WILL have a GOOD, GOOD hockey team. A team that can make a run, and possibly succeed. Deep playoff runs, home ice advantage, a balanced well built roster with depth. That's what the Presidents' Trophy implies. Much better than one single good player.

The percentage chance is a little over 22%.
That means that little over 77% over presidents trophy winners DONT win it all. He’ll, 20% have lost in the first round, that’s only slightly lower than those that have won. Those are good numbers?

youre also cherry-picking the bad 1st overalls. You have to take into account that really the true “bust” 1st overalls are the exception not the rule, especially now that scouting and technology has advanced the process.

Having a “Good good” hockey team doesn’t mean you’ll win it all. There are plenty of “good good” teams. Both Tampa and Boston could have been considered that way and only one advanced (it wasn’t the president’s trophy winner) That’s why the Presidents trophy winner loses the majority of the time. So what it implies is meaningless rather than what the actual results show.

 

[SotasicA]

The percentage chance is a little over 22%.
That means that little over 77% over presidents trophy winners DONT win it all. He’ll, 20% have lost in the first round, that’s only slightly lower than those that have won. Those are good numbers?

youre also cherry-picking the bad 1st overalls. You have to take into account that really the true “bust” 1st overalls are the exception not the rule, especially now that scouting and technology has advanced the process.

Having a “Good good” hockey team doesn’t mean you’ll win it all. There are plenty of “good good” teams. Both Tampa and Boston could have been considered that way and only one advanced (it wasn’t the president’s trophy winner) That’s why the Presidents trophy winner loses the majority of the time. So what it implies is meaningless rather than what the actual results show.

Obviously nothing guarantees a Cup. But that's not the point here, is it? It's not a debate if there was a guaranteed Cup as an option.

You are going to have to admit, at the very least, that winning the Presidents' Trophy means you have a very good hockey team. No bad team has ever won it. Now you are guaranteed to have two of those trophies in the next 5 years at the minimum. That's the worst case scenario. Two PT's and nothing else.

Now look at your first overall pick. It may mean progress or another decade or more of suckage. So going from absolute obscurity and defeat and embarrassment, you can go on to have the best regular season record twice. And that means you've made some tremendous progress. At the very least. You can still win a Cup on top. Plenty of teams entering the playoffs have former 1st overalls in their roster. But only one team starts as the regular season champs.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Obviously nothing guarantees a Cup. But that's not the point here, is it? It's not a debate if there was a guaranteed Cup as an option.

You are going to have to admit, at the very least, that winning the Presidents' Trophy means you have a very good hockey team. No bad team has ever won it. Now you are guaranteed to have two of those trophies in the next 5 years at the minimum. That's the worst case scenario. Two PT's and nothing else.

Now look at your first overall pick. It may mean progress or another decade or more of suckage. So going from absolute obscurity and defeat and embarrassment, you can go on to have the best regular season record twice. And that means you've made some tremendous progress. At the very least. You can still win a Cup on top. Plenty of teams entering the playoffs have former 1st overalls in their roster. But only one team starts as the regular season champs.

Never said it didn't mean you have a good hockey team. What I've said is that it's not indictive of a high chance of winning the whole thing. Regular season is MEANINGLESS. If it mattered that much then the Lightning would be celebrating back to back championships right now.

But in regards to having a first overall on your roster - Since the lockout of '05, a team with a former 1st overall pick (that they drafted) has won the cup 8 out 15 times. By comparison - The President's trophy winners have won only 2 out of those 15 cups. I'll take my chances with the 8/15 crowd. That's as many teams that have won the cup while winning the president's trophy over the last 35 years.

 

[Krewe]

Never said it didn't mean you have a good hockey team. What I've said is that it's not indictive of a high chance of winning the whole thing. Regular season is MEANINGLESS. If it mattered that much then the Lightning would be celebrating back to back championships right now.

But in regards to having a first overall on your roster - Since the lockout of '05, a team with a former 1st overall pick (that they drafted) has won the cup 8 out 15 times. By comparison - The President's trophy winners have won only 2 out of those 15 cups. I'll take my chances with the 8/15 crowd. That's as many teams that have won the cup while winning the president's trophy over the last 35 years.

You're looking at it the wrong way. Look at teams that have won a presidents trophy in the 5 years around a cup. Tampa, Capitals, Washington, Boston, Hawks, etc have all won a presidents trophy AND a cup

9/15 president's trophy winners since the lockout have also won a cup. 3/4 2xPresident's trophy winners won a cup. While only Crosby, Kane, and Stamkos of the last 15 1OA have won a cup

 

[TheBloodyNine]

You're looking at it the wrong way. Look at teams that have won a presidents trophy in the 5 years around a cup. Tampa, Capitals, Washington, Boston, Hawks, etc have all won a presidents trophy AND a cup

9/15 president's trophy winners since the lockout have also won a cup. 3/4 2xPresident's trophy winners won a cup. While only Crosby, Kane, and Stamkos of the last 15 1OA have won a cup

It's a fair point, but the fact is that it's never in the same year, and the teams that have won multiple cups in that time span, have had a 1st overall. So in this hypothetical, you aren't even getting a 1st overall pick. So really you would need a president's trophy win AND a first overall pick. If you have won 2 president's trophys over a 5 year span, that chances that you're drafting high enough to obtain that pick are extremely low.

Also, you're forgetting Ovechkin - 2018.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

You must love losing if you go with the pick.