Pick one Defenseman to build a team around? Leetch vs Karlsson vs Doughty

[bossram]

What year was this unstoppable peak of Karlsson that you are referring to?

Aslo Leetch has a Conn Smythe killer performance in 94.

Karlsson and Leetch are very much alike in some ways, both were high event level players were goals were going to be scored by both teams when they were on the ice... much moreso than Doughty.

Leetch also played a ton on the PK.

from 11-12 to 16-17, where he deserved to have won four Norris trophies in that period.

 

[wetcoast]

from 11-12 to 16-17, where he deserved to have won four Norris trophies in that period.

Well he won 2.

The first one he won over Weber 1069-1057 and the second one 964-889 over Doughty.

Both years it easily could have gone the other way as well.

Some people forget that the Norris trophy and being best fantasy dman are 2 entirely different things.

 

[Regal]

Well he won 2.

The first one he won over Weber 1069-1057 and the second one 964-889 over Doughty.

Both years it easily could have gone the other way as well.

Some people forget that the Norris trophy and being best fantasy dman are 2 entirely different things.

By the same token, his two 2nd place finishes could have easily gone the other way in what were both close votes as well.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I love Doughty's game, so I'm going with him.

 

[Aladyyn]

Karlsson and I hope that his ankle never gets cut.

Thisssss. He never recovered back to 100% from the injury and he's STILL been the best defenseman in the league.

 

[wetcoast]

By the same token, his two 2nd place finishes could have easily gone the other way in what were both close votes as well.

they weren't as close Doughty was 1254-1020 in 15/16, Burns was 3rd with 619 and was only 7 points behind Karlsson if we are playing thee what if game.

Maybe the voters felt that the following year when Burns won 1437-1292 with Hedman criminally low at 3rd with 728.

The point is that while it's possible that Karlsson could have won 4 Norris trophies in that time period, he very well could have won zero or one and historians really wouldn't bat an eye.

It really isn't a Paul Coffey-Rod Langway situation here.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out this year with Burns and Karlsson on the same team and burns being 12 points ahead at the halfway point.

I think this is the year for Giordano.

 

[Ben White]

EK at 21 yo? Are you kidding me? He was the best player in the league pre achilles injury in 2013. I let the videos speak for themselves:

 

[wetcoast]

EK at 21 yo? Are you kidding me? He was the best player in the league pre achilles injury in 2013. I let the videos speak for themselves:

Karlsson was still a project defensively at age 21 and was a complete non factor on the PK.

Leetch was his offensive equal and played 200 feet at the same age while doughty was more well rounded but behind both of them offensively.

Doughty still had a pretty good offensive skillset but was deployed differently than either Leetch and especially Karlsson.

 

[Aladyyn]

Karlsson was still a project defensively at age 21 and was a complete non factor on the PK.

Leetch was his offensive equal and played 200 feet at the same age while doughty was more well rounded but behind both of them offensively.

Doughty still had a pretty good offensive skillset but was deployed differently than either Leetch and especially Karlsson.

That's actually a good thing.

 

[wetcoast]

That's actually a good thing.

Not really as he didn't play on the PK, he was basically more a rover at age 21 than a 2 way Dman.

He was also playing sheltered "easier " minutes on those senator teams compared to Leetch and Doughty who played very well in all situations at the same point.

 

[NyQuil]

Karlsson was still a project defensively at age 21 and was a complete non factor on the PK.

Leetch was his offensive equal and played 200 feet at the same age while doughty was more well rounded but behind both of them offensively.

Doughty still had a pretty good offensive skillset but was deployed differently than either Leetch and especially Karlsson.

Leetch was also very much a project defensively from time to time.

In fact, Leetch’s game in the defensive zone has declined dramatically since 1994, specifically in front of his own net. There’s no good reason for it, not given Leetch’s size, strength, quickness and ability to read. The coaching staff – make that Ted Green, who arrived from Edmonton with a large reputation – has a responsibility here to work with Leetch; perhaps even to begin the process of transforming him into more of a stay-at-home defenseman.

https://nypost.com/2001/10/09/rangers-shaky-d-needs-fix/

Who does that sound like?

Again, apparently only Rangers fans like myself knew that he was not a perfect defenceman which is why he needed the right partner.

 

[joe dirte]

Well I mean Karlsson is better defensively then Doughty aswell, something he is showing this year when he is not on a team where he needs to carry the offence solo.

This poll should be close between Leetch and Karlsson, Doughty is simply a tier or two below as far as talent goes- not that he is all that far off either mind you, simply enough behind that he doesn't belong in the discussion.

Where do the Karlsson Klub fanbois come up with some of this stuff.

You're comparing Doughty, who spent several years as the best defensive dman in the league, vs Karlsson, who is terrible in his own zone, and causes goalies sv% to drop like a rock.

 

[NyQuil]

You're comparing Doughty, who spent several years as the best defensive dman in the league, vs Karlsson, who is terrible in his own zone, and causes goalies sv% to drop like a rock.

It's funny how those precious advanced stats reversed dramatically now that Karlsson is a on a strong possession team and Doughty isn't.

What a remarkable coincidence.

Keep in mind, I think they're all fine defencemen, which is why this thread is interesting, but the team has a huge impact on how those defensive stats look.

 

[wetcoast]

Leetch was also very much a project defensively from time to time.



https://nypost.com/2001/10/09/rangers-shaky-d-needs-fix/

Who does that sound like?

Compared to doughty sure but at least he was being used in all situations.

The NYR were a poorly constructed team in Leetch's first 3 years, quick name the top 2 centers on his NYR teams at age 21.

Also I'll say it again, the OP picked the exact age when Karlsson broke out and all 3 guys played in the NHL at ages 19 and 20 when the differences were even larger.

 

[NyQuil]

The NYR were a poorly constructed team in Leetch's first 3 years, quick name the top 2 centers on his NYR teams at age 21.

Captain Kelly Kisio was one for sure. Broadway Bernie was probably still around, and he was good.

Erik Karlsson's teams were poorly constructed for most of his career.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

EK at 21 yo? Are you kidding me? He was the best player in the league pre achilles injury in 2013. I let the videos speak for themselves:

He played 17 games. 17.

I guess I'm old enough in these discussions to remember EK fans complaining that Doughty's playoffs were unfairly applying to his rep as he was an inconsistent regular season defenseman offensively, but here we are.

I only wish we had people putting together Doughty highlight reels as he hasn't had one since even before our Cup runs. Those obviously do a much better job of capturing some of the smaller things these guys do so well but their highlight reels are so similar anyway it's probably a moot point in terms of showcasing abilities though it's looking like it would help Drew's exposure.

 

[wetcoast]

Captain Kelly Kisio was one for sure. Broadway Bernie was probably still around, and he was good.

Erik Karlsson's teams were poorly constructed for most of his career.

Sure Kisio was a fine 2nd center who declined the following season but was decent that year.

Bernie was there for 32 games, the same number of games Paul Broten played at center.

Anyways we all know where both doughty and Leetch lead their teams to as elite #1 dmen right?

 

[NyQuil]

Anyways we all know where both doughty and Leetch lead their teams to as elite #1 dmen right?

I know who was on those teams, yes.

 

[Caps8112]

leetch is at worst on par with the other two. severly underrated probably due to retiring 13 years ago and most of his best years being in the 90s.

 

[Ben White]

Lol at any other answer than EK in this one granted you read the OP

 

[Agent Zub]

Karlsson is closer to McDavid and Crosby in hockey ability than he is to drew. i never got this obsession with comparing the two.

Karlsson makes everyone on the ice better to an extent that doughty can't replicate period.

no one will ever confuse doughty as the best hockey player in the world. while karlsson is at that level right now and was at that level when he was 21.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Erik Karlsson by far. Drew Doughty is slowly becoming heavily overrated for a guy that was always considered top 5 but never considered the best in any single year.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Karlsson pretty easily

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Erik Karlsson by far. Drew Doughty is slowly becoming heavily overrated for a guy that was always considered top 5 but never considered the best in any single year.

Duhatschek: Did Drew Doughty’s 2014 get enough respect?

"Los Angeles Kings defenceman Drew Doughty had a year to remember in 2014. In February, he was part of the national men's hockey team that defended its Olympic championship in Sochi, Russia, the first Canadian men's team to win a gold medal in an overseas Games on international-sized ice since 1952. He led the team in scoring, and if you were to rank the Canadian players in order of importance, it would probably go Doughty first, Shea Weber and Carey Price tied for second, and then Jonathan Toews."

"In the playoffs, Doughty averaged a team-high 28:45 per night of playing time, and contributed 18 points in 26 games. Justin Williams, who scored many pivotal goals along the Kings' playoff path, won the Conn Smythe Trophy, but Doughty was – as Sports Illustrated's Michael Farber put it – the thinking man's choice for playoff MVP."

Etc.

 

[bobholly39]

Leetch obviously had the best peak (thinking the conn smythe run - not necessarily reg season) - but that's not necessarily repeatable. It might be, it might not be - i'm more tempted to say regular season play is repeatable.

I voted Doughty.

I feel as though Karlsson is capable of more highs than Doughty - but also less consistent. Or at least - more risky. Doughty's playoff record is impeccable (international stage too). I really like what i get from him, offense, defense, playoffs, regular season. With Karlsson there's a bit more of an unknown factor. He has done very little so far in the playoffs. He can probably exceed Doughty there - but maybe he also doesn't.