Prospect Info: Pick #78 - Shayne Gostisbehere, Defenseman, Union College (NCAA)

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I just pointed out that a SPECIFIC penalty illustrated the limits placed on Ghost by his size, he can't use his body to shield off a forward in the corner BECAUSE HE'S SMALL.

But you do this all the time, you take one specific example of a mistake and blow it up into a full-blown portrait of who a player is, and that's not an accurate way to paint. You have to allow these guys - especially the young and/or inexperienced guys - to make mistakes without saying "OH, this is a weakness of his, this is who he is now and will be forever," all the while ignoring the myriad good things he does (speaking of Ghost) defensively. He has an off-the-charts hockey IQ, and some of the mistakes that have happened with him (not all, but a fair number) have come because the people around him have not been able to keep up with him. That's the context that he is operating in, the context that you consistently ignore.

 

[Winston Wolf]

I just pointed out that a SPECIFIC penalty illustrated the limits placed on Ghost by his size, he can't use his body to shield off a forward in the corner BECAUSE HE'S SMALL.

Provorov makes that play all the time b/c he's 200+ lbs and plays with great anticipation and leverage. When he shields off an opposing player, he's hard to move (harder than Gudas, for example). Ghost physical struggles in those situations, and at 24 years old, he's unlikely to get much stronger.

This is an advantage Friedman will have over Ghost, he's short, but like MV, he's stout, so he can use leverage to handle bigger players, the way Kimmo used to do. Size matters in certain situations.

You always bring up Timonen for some odd reason. You usually say that Timonen was a finished product defensively at Ghost's age, yet Timonen was a rookie at the age Ghost is now. As for size, Ghost is listed as 8 pounds lighter and 1 inch taller than Timonen was when he retired. You really think Ghost can't put on another 10 pounds or so over the next 3-4 years? Even if he doesn't put that weight on, is 8 pounds stopping him from having he ability to play defense, rather than be a PP specialist? You might also want to look at Erik Karlsson's size.

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[whitstifier]

Gostisbehere's Spin-o-rama/G was pathetic this year

 

[David St Hubbins]

Gostisbehere's Spin-o-rama/G was pathetic this year

he sucks

 

[deadhead]

You always bring up Timonen for some odd reason. You usually say that Timonen was a finished product defensively at Ghost's age, yet Timonen was a rookie at the age Ghost is now. As for size, Ghost is listed as 8 pounds lighter and 1 inch taller than Timonen was when he retired. You really think Ghost can't put on another 10 pounds or so over the next 3-4 years? Even if he doesn't put that weight on, is 8 pounds stopping him from having he ability to play defense, rather than be a PP specialist? You might also want to look at Erik Karlsson's size.

Timmo was listed as 5'10 194, he could play with good leverage,
Ghost is listed at 5'11 180, and he gets pushed around on a regular basis. Friedman is the guy who's body is compared with Timmo.
Nor at 24 is Ghost about to add much weight without slowing down.

Kimmo was a 23 year old rookie, so was Ghost.

Kimmo did not have an impressive ES offensive season until he was 31, he was a power play QB by his second season, but didn't break 20 ES points until his 8th season with 5-23 28. Didn't break 20 again until he was 36. He was more of a "defensive" defenseman than people remember.

Provorov had 6-19 25 at ES as a 20 year old rookie.
Ghost had 9-15 24 (in 62 games) at ES as a 22-23 year old rookie

 

[macleish1974]

Did anyone know that Shayne went to the same high school where the shooting was?

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Damnit Wayne. Do something.

 

[Hurricane28]

Awww baby Ghost

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[AdamParrot]

 

[wankstifier]

No empty netters

 

[Larry44]

Did anyone know that Shayne went to the same high school where the shooting was?

Yeah, he invited the the Stoneman hockey team to a Panther v Flyer game, iirc.

 

[TB87]

Ghost’s two-way game took a big step forward this past season. Excellent PP defenseman, strong in transition, aggressive in the NZ, strong stick, and maintains tight gaps pretty consistently. I’m glad that he’s a Flyer!!

 

[Striiker]

And yet people still call him a 3rd pairing defensemen.

 

[FlyTimmo]

My favorite Flyer AINEC

 

[Rebels57]

And yet people still call him a 3rd pairing defensemen.

That's because A LOT of f***ing imbeciles post here.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

He and Ivan are just complete badasses.

 

[TB87]

And yet people still call him a 3rd pairing defensemen.

Let me guess, is the most common criticism: “He’s too small and he isn’t physical enough?”

He wins plenty of puck/board battles from what I’ve seen. He’s lost some too. Ya know, like every defenseman who’s ever played in the NHL.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Let me guess, is the most common criticism: “He’s too small and he isn’t physical enough?”

He wins plenty of puck/board battles from what I’ve seen. He’s lost some too. Ya know, like every defenseman who’s ever played in the NHL.

Or that he had an underwhelming playoffs, so that equals him being a 3rd pairing defenseman... haha.

Ghost was easily our 2nd best defensive defenseman last year.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I can accept him getting underrated by other fanbases, but the way he gets underrated by the Flyers fanbase blows my mind.

 

[Striiker]

Let me guess, is the most common criticism: “He’s too small and he isn’t physical enough?”

He wins plenty of puck/board battles from what I’ve seen. He’s lost some too. Ya know, like every defenseman who’s ever played in the NHL.

Yep.

Some people can't look past size and then assume stereotypes are true about both size and offensive skill. After all, if a defensemen scores then he must be a liability defensively, right?!!

They're full of shit and they know it, but agendas come first for some people.

 

[hatcher]

This is the year he takes off in all areas not just putting up points but stronger on the boards and compete level to get the puck back.

 

[Striiker]

He doesn't just put up points. He's very good defensively too.

EASILY 2nd best on the team.

 

[deadhead]

It also helped to be paired with Provorov.
He was a 3rd pair defenseman by any standard in 2016-17, his injury really exposed his physical limitations and his defensive shortcomings.
Last year he put it together, finally played defense as well as offense, and cut back on his bad turnovers - did what his HC had preached to him for 2 years.
But of course the coaching staff has nothing to do with a young player learning to play good, fundamental hockey.

Ghost will always be limited by his size, which is why you want to put him in position to succeed.
I don't want him on the PK wrestling with people deep in his own zone and blocking shots.
And I'd try to avoid matchups where he has to take on big, physical forwards on defense.
If he's going to play 20+ minutes a night, you want his legs fresh.

It would help him going forward to regain some of the rookie quickness that he has lost, against the Penguins he was exposed by a tenacious forecheck by fast forwards - don't know if he permanently lost that extra burst or just needs more time to heal after his surgery.