Prospect Info: Pick #78 - Shayne Gostisbehere, Defenseman, Union College (NCAA)

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BernieParent

In misery of redwings of suckage for a long time
Mar 13, 2009
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Yeah, I'd say any hockey-related stat whose answer is Dustin Byfuglien and the originator question isn't "Of whom are Winnipeg-area Chinese buffet owners most afraid?" doesn't carry a lot of credibility.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Meltzer's take:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill...fense-Conundrum-Ghost-Giroux-Goalies/45/82780

some of the excuse making and spin doctoring that gets made for Gostisbehere -- mind you, never by the player himself -- is over-the-top. The bottom line with "Ghost" is that he needs to produce points with better consistency and simultaneously has to play at least adequately enough without the puck on his stick to not be a significant liability. Offensive risk-taking and turnovers are NOT why he's been sitting out, nor is there any actual evidence the Flyers are trying to "coach the creativity out of him."

The reality: Gostisbehere has regressed, significantly, in his play whenever the opposition gets the puck over the Philadelphia blue line on his side. He's not being punished for anything that's beyond his control. The issues that got him benched have to do with all the one-on-one battles he loses both of the body/stick positioning variety and the muscle variety. He gets knocked off pucks too easily. He gets beaten outside right around ineffectual stick checking. To the inside, he's had fits trying to keep attackers from getting advantageous shooting and passing lanes.
 

Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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Ok. Why isn't anybody else being benched? Why not Streit, MacDonald, or Manning? They're just as guilty of habitual mistakes that cost the team.
 

Beef Invictus

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MDZ has regressed on both sides of the puck. Don't see him getting healthy scratched.

There is no defending the scratching of Ghost while all the other slop is unpunished.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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Oh so a small offensive defensemen isn't an elite shutdown guy who can push people around? Amazing take there. Maybe then the coach should put him with a real defensemen, instead of forcing him into the role of safety net of the pair by playing with guys like Manning who are even worse defensively and play even riskier.

As smart as having a shutdown defensemen get benched for not scoring enough... it's not his role.

And this is also ignoring that he's exaggerating there, making it sound like Ghost is horrible the entire time in the defensive zone, which is nonsense.
 

BillDineen

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Aug 9, 2009
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^^^

"Are multiple scratchings a solution? Not if he's expected to play as important of a role as he did last year. There are any number of steps that could have been taken that were less drastic -- such as having him at least temporarily switch to left defense to simplify some of the common own zone challenges for a lefthanded shooter while he's trying to regain some of the instinctual aspects of the game that have been misplaced. Dave Hakstol downplays the notion of lost confidence, but Gostisbehere seems to have wheels turning in his head whenever the puck in the defensive zone on his side."

...

"When a player of Gostisbehere's offensive capabilities is struggling -- and has shown in the past that he can at least be adequate defensively -- and the team is also struggling to score, the decision to scratch him three straight games become hard to justify. Try some different looks for him, even if a side switch or another partner switch is no a magical elixir. Scratch him for one game. But three? No way."

Ghost-Gudas please.
 

BrindamoursNose

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Oct 14, 2008
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Ok. Why isn't anybody else being benched? Why not Streit, MacDonald, or Manning? They're just as guilty of habitual mistakes that cost the team.

IMO, it's because Ghost has the capability to be better than that whereas those others are pretty much the best they'll be. I think MDZ is playing to showcase him for trades.

I don't think he should be scratched any longer (and maybe it was a mistake in the first place, who knows), but I appreciate the attempt to challenge Ghost mentally. Doing the same thing probably won't help him, but maybe if you challenge him mentally, his approach will also change and he'll perform better.

We all know Ghost is better than most of our D, but I think Hak has been trying to push him to be better than just the others (minus Provy).

Again: I'm not saying I support it, but I'm saying I understand it. It's not an insane concept to try different motivating tactics for different players. Hopefully, the Flyers have gambled well and accomplished what they wanted to.
 

Striiker

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^^^

"Are multiple scratchings a solution? Not if he's expected to play as important of a role as he did last year. There are any number of steps that could have been taken that were less drastic -- such as having him at least temporarily switch to left defense to simplify some of the common own zone challenges for a lefthanded shooter while he's trying to regain some of the instinctual aspects of the game that have been misplaced. Dave Hakstol downplays the notion of lost confidence, but Gostisbehere seems to have wheels turning in his head whenever the puck in the defensive zone on his side."

...

"When a player of Gostisbehere's offensive capabilities is struggling -- and has shown in the past that he can at least be adequate defensively -- and the team is also struggling to score, the decision to scratch him three straight games become hard to justify. Try some different looks for him, even if a side switch or another partner switch is no a magical elixir. Scratch him for one game. But three? No way."

Ghost-Gudas please.

Exactly.

Or, if we need him to be on the right side... PROVOROV-GHOST FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE

Ghost is in a serious funk, but Hakstol is doing everything in his ability to prolong it.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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I don't understand why this current scratch for Ghost has gone on so long when the replacement is Schultz who has been healthy scratched 30+ times this season, but MDZ, Manning and MacDonald have all been healthy scratched multiple times this season.
 

Captain Dave Poulin

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^^^

"Are multiple scratchings a solution? Not if he's expected to play as important of a role as he did last year. There are any number of steps that could have been taken that were less drastic -- such as having him at least temporarily switch to left defense to simplify some of the common own zone challenges for a lefthanded shooter while he's trying to regain some of the instinctual aspects of the game that have been misplaced. Dave Hakstol downplays the notion of lost confidence, but Gostisbehere seems to have wheels turning in his head whenever the puck in the defensive zone on his side."

...

"When a player of Gostisbehere's offensive capabilities is struggling -- and has shown in the past that he can at least be adequate defensively -- and the team is also struggling to score, the decision to scratch him three straight games become hard to justify. Try some different looks for him, even if a side switch or another partner switch is no a magical elixir. Scratch him for one game. But three? No way."

Ghost-Gudas please.

Where is that from, Bill?
 

BrindamoursNose

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But benching him isn't going to fix anything.

You don't know that, though. So much of the game is mental.

He can take it one of three ways I think:
1) I guess I really need to get my act together and work harder on these issues in my game. Coaches are trying to help.
2) F THEM! I'm going to show them why it's a mistake next time I'm in the game.
3) F THEM...how the hell can you play THEM over me? I am clearly not appreciated here and I do not trust this org.

We'll see if the gamble pays off.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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You don't know that, though. So much of the game is mental.

He can take it one of three ways I think:
1) I guess I really need to get my act together and work harder on these issues in my game. Coaches are trying to help.
2) F THEM! I'm going to show them why it's a mistake next time I'm in the game.
3) F THEM...how the hell can you play THEM over me? I am clearly not appreciated here and I do not trust this org.

We'll see if the gamble pays off.

Which is exactly why this won't help.

He has the perfect mentality about the scratchings, he's taking this as well as, or better than, you could ever expect him to. The issue is confidence and that doesn't improve by having your coach say you don't help the team win.
 

Rebels57

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Exactly.

Or, if we need him to be on the right side... PROVOROV-GHOST FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE

Ghost is in a serious funk, but Hakstol is doing everything in his ability to prolong it.

Yep. It's almost like he WANTS him to struggle. I wonder what their relationship is like?

He will bench him, then get him back in there with a ****** partner like Manning and give them top 4 ES minutes..then wonder why they weren't performing well. Give him a rock solid partner in Provorov or Gudas, along with PP and OT usage. Not rocket science.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
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Pennsylvania
Yep. It's almost like he WANTS him to struggle. I wonder what their relationship is like?

He will bench him, then get him back in there with a ****** partner like Manning and give them top 4 ES minutes..then wonder why they weren't performing well. Give him a rock solid partner in Provorov or Gudas, along with PP and OT usage. Not rocket science.

Yeah, it's crazy... I have this new Ferrari but when I attach an 18 wheeler trailer to it the performance just isn't the same... I can't figure out why...

Thinking about just leaving it in my garage and using my VW Beetle instead.

tumblr_m5ufc4GwJ61qdhsxp.0.jpg
 

BrindamoursNose

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
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Which is exactly why this won't help.

He has the perfect mentality about the scratchings, he's taking this as well as, or better than, you could ever expect him to. The issue is confidence and that doesn't improve by having your coach say you don't help the team win.


I agree that confidence plays a part in this problem, but he could take this time to work on aspects of his game in practice so he'll better implement them in-game. That could potentially be what the layoff is for.

I think of it as clashing philosophies pertaining to injuries: 1) Plenty of rest to heal is paramount 2) Working the muscle/appendage is paramount to healing.

I think Hak/Hexy could be going the former route rather than the latter, which you're suggesting.

But make no mistake: Hak has to play him soon. Can't let him rot on the bench forever no matter what they're doing. A few games? I can deal with it. As it hits game 4, 5, etc....it's getting insane. At some point, the kid has to get back in to show where he's at mentally/skill-wise.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,438
155,155
Pennsylvania
I agree that confidence plays a part in this problem, but he could take this time to work on aspects of his game in practice so he'll better implement them in-game. That could potentially be what the layoff is for.

I think of it as clashing philosophies pertaining to injuries: 1) Plenty of rest to heal is paramount 2) Working the muscle/appendage is paramount to healing.

I think Hak/Hexy could be going the former route rather than the latter, which you're suggesting.

But make no mistake: Hak has to play him soon. Can't let him rot on the bench forever no matter what they're doing. A few games? I can deal with it. As it hits game 4, 5, etc....it's getting insane. At some point, the kid has to get back in to show where he's at mentally/skill-wise.

Yeah, I was unhappy with one game, but could live with it.

Two games was stupid.

Three games was insane.

If he sits again on Thursday then I'm storming the WFC with a pack of rabid badgers.
 

BrindamoursNose

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
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Yeah, I was unhappy with one game, but could live with it.

Two games was stupid.

Three games was insane.

If he sits again on Thursday then I'm storming the WFC with a pack of rabid badgers.

Haha, and I'll be honest, I wouldn't blame you.
 

LegionOfDoom91

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
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18. On Gostisbehere: very early interesting parallel to Montreal and P.K. Subban. It’s very clear that he’s the target of everyone who faces the Flyers, and his strengths are being attacked just like Klingberg’s. It becomes a battle of wills. You’ve got Dave Hakstol saying, “This is what the next step has to be.†You’ve got Gostisbehere saying: “This worked just fine for me, thanks.â€

You grind away to find a solution. Just because it didn’t work between Montreal and Subban doesn’t mean Philadelphia will go the nuclear option. Vincent Lecavalier and John Tortorella figured it out. Hextall strikes me as the type of guy who will wait as long as he can.

You know who else is going to go through this soon? Mike Babcock and William Nylander.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-better-claude-julien-uncertainty/
 
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