Phoenix XXXVI - There's got to be a morning after

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Mod: I removed the references to that goofy speculation from Sunnucks about relo fees. It has taken on a life of its own.

I think we should take it a step further and ban Sunnucks articles altogether unless he cites specific sources.

No more of his "sources close to the Coyotes situation", which have never proven correct.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

If the city of Glendale is just...going to give Hulsizer money from the Enterprise Fund...why doesn't the city of Glendale just put up a little bit more and buy the team themselves? Green Bay owns the Packers. What's wrong with Glendale owning the Coyotes?

Green Bay may seem like fan ownership heaven but every league hates it, including the NFL. Leagues want private ownership with a central individual or small group that has the financial wherewithal to run the team through good and bad. Political bodies change and can't be held personally accountable.

I don't remember if a political body is explicitly disallowed by the league's constitution but one would never be recommended by Bettman and probably never be approved by the BOG.

Green Bay is an anomaly grandfathered into the league. You won't see it repeated. Edmonton's 38 headed monster that took over after Pocklington bailed is probably the closest thing you'll ever see to it in the NHL and that repeatedly came close to disaster.

 

[CasualFan]

04-27-2011 Originally Posted by CasualFan
Section 9(a) of Jan 25, 2011 Agreement contains direct language assigning rights from CCD (Ellman) to the city.

I am afraid I have to take issue with this as well. That agreement contains no language assigning parking rights from CCD to the City. I can only assume that you think section 9 does this, yet there is no assignment language of any kind. None. The only thing that provision does is to allow for the COG to charge for the parking rights.

In any event, this faux issue of ownership of the parking rights is as tiresome now as when it was first raised by GWI as part of their phony campaign.

They don't own them. They own the dirt. The GWI is misrepresenting the seperate and distinct parking rights that vest with tenants.

I will admit the answer takes some work to get to, but the GWI has been engage in PR over this for months. No real lawyering has been done of any consequence.

Respectfully, you are both mistaken. As I had long agreed, the path to the parking rights was clear. Then on Jan 25, 2011, Coyotes Center Development (Ellman) and Glendale amended the MUDA, which I'm sure you would agree is one of the key documents in that path.

CCD is still required to make 5,500 parking spaces available for Team/Arena Manager use during Arena Events. However, the City now holds the rights to realize any revenue generated by those spots.

We can add this to the list of errors committed by Glendale's legal team. From absent minded mistakes like sending the "play with her" e-mail to Goldwater to egregious errors such as the language in the Arena Put Option section, the City has botched this transaction rather badly.

 

[WpgJets]

Another plan to save Coyotes?
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/05/04/another-plan-to-save-coyotes-report

 

[BB79]

Another plan to save Coyotes?
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/05/04/another-plan-to-save-coyotes-report

This plan sounds familiar, like it's the same one we've been hearing about being possile over the past week or so, which GW will probably eat alive in court. Wish wee-man with a big ego would just bring the Jets home already.

Hulsizer, I've never seen someone in such a rush to lose money.

 

[Grumpz]

Another plan to save Coyotes?
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/05/04/another-plan-to-save-coyotes-report

He's siting the PBJ, in other words, Sunnicks garbage...so I don't think so.

 

[Killion]

We can add this to the list of errors committed by Glendale's legal team...... the City has botched this transaction rather badly.

Indeed they have. In assigning ownership of the parking rights back to themselves they have created an almost insurmountable obstacle. They have retained some of the most prestigious law firms in Arizona yet on such a fundamental issue as this.....its like watching Gremlins' descending from the ceilings at SFO, attack & eat a womans baby right in front of your Bead Booth. Very disruptive to general commerce, going to or coming from wherever it is you need to be.

 

[Puckschmuck*]

So, Goldwater found a document signed by COG on Jan.25, 2011 that states THEY OWN The Parking Rights. They then lied to possible Bond Investors saying Hulsizer would owe them just to sell bonds. Now; Bonds have been pulled from the table ( over 2 weeks ago ) and there hasn't been any progress since. Sure sounds like things are dead down there....... Unless you think Glendale paying $25 Million in losses while leaving the NHL with the rest is progress!

http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/5997

 

[davemac1313]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Coyotes-vote-could-be-held-Tuesday-121291549.html

I guess the end is near one way or another....we'll see Friday

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Details of the NHL’s new financing package to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix are beginning to leak out.

I want to hear about these details.

 

[peter sullivan]

what will they sell bonds for if they own the parking rights?.....why not just take $50m out of the enterprise account?....if they could take $25m whats another $50?....saves a lot of hassle and reduces interest payments.


BTW. the winnipeg sun is not a newspaper.....posting any links from it is pointless...they have no real journalists and merely repeat the work of others.

 

[Killion]

I guess the end is near one way or another....we'll see Friday

Well, unless theres some way out of the box canyon their legal minds have put them in in reclaiming the parking rights, I cant see a bond sale proceeding regardless of the amount. Unless theres a damn good legal argument somewhere in that tangled web; there may however be other forms of financing available, though which of the tenuous options they may latch onto at this late hour I wouldnt even hazard a guess at.

 

[borno87]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Coyotes-vote-could-be-held-Tuesday-121291549.html

I guess the end is near one way or another....we'll see Friday

Gary Lawless....

Details of the NHL’s new financing package to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix are beginning to leak out and the package could be brought to City of Glendale council for a vote next Tuesday.

The new package could contain a $50 million bond issue from the city directed to Hulsizer’s purchase, according to a report in the Phoenix Business Journal. Hulsizer would increase his initial investment from $70 million to just over $100 million.

What horrible, speculative, cover-your-own ass journalism. This is a perfect example of what has gone wrong in the last 6 months, why tensions betweetn WPG and PHX fans are at an all time hand. Lawless and Sunnucks have somehow combined their lazy journalistic standards to create a perfect storm of optimism, speculation and rumor mongering that has literally taken on a life of its own.

Just.. just....

 

[davemac1313]

Well, unless theres some way out of the box canyon their legal minds have put them in in reclaiming the parking rights, I cant see a bond sale proceeding regardless of the amount. Unless theres a damn good legal argument somewhere in that tangled web; there may however be other forms of financing available, though which of the tenuous options they may latch onto at this late hour I wouldnt even hazard a guess at.

Well it is yard sale season.....

 

[Killion]

Well it is yard sale season.....

I dont think you'll find the NHL with a table offering up the Coyotes 4Sale at the ones on Crestview this Saturday mac.

 

[Dado]

What, so Hulsizer is back to being willing to open up his pocketbook, we're back to the boy in the bright white sports car honking at all the girls...?

 

[thed00d]

So, Goldwater found a document signed by COG on Jan.25, 2011 that states THEY OWN The Parking Rights. They then lied to possible Bond Investors saying Hulsizer would owe them just to sell bonds. Now; Bonds have been pulled from the table ( over 2 weeks ago ) and there hasn't been any progress since. Sure sounds like things are dead down there....... Unless you think Glendale paying $25 Million in losses while leaving the NHL with the rest is progress!

http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/5997

One thing I do not understand is why the bonds are still an option if it has been demonstrated that it would be illegal? How can this possibly proceed? I've been lurking for a while, and still these supposed bonds appear to still be an option....even though they were pulled 2 weeks ago.

 

[Killion]

....we're back to the boys in the bright white sports car honking at all the girls...?

Waving their arms in the air
Who do they think they are

 

[Killion]

As I had long agreed, the path to the parking rights was clear. Then on Jan 25, 2011, Coyotes Center Development (Ellman) and Glendale amended the MUDA, which I'm sure you would agree is one of the key documents in that path. CCD is still required to make 5,500 parking spaces available for Team/Arena Manager use during Arena Events. However, the City now holds the rights to realize any revenue generated by those spots.

One thing I do not understand is why the bonds are still an option if it has been demonstrated that it would be illegal? How can this possibly proceed? I've been lurking for a while, and still these supposed bonds appear to still be an option....even though they were pulled 2 weeks ago.

Unless there is an argument to be heard that would in some way negate or clear the legal mist-step as outlined above by CF, then a Bond sale would indeed be an impossibility as currently proposed, be it for even half of the original volumes. Why the reporters' covering this story would continue to suggest that its even an option, unless their privy to legal opinions that would somehow jump over such an obvious obstacle I wouldnt know?...

 

[CasualFan]

Well, unless theres some way out of the box canyon their legal minds have put them in in reclaiming the parking rights, I cant see a bond sale proceeding regardless of the amount. Unless theres a damn good legal argument somewhere in that tangled web; there may however be other forms of financing available, though which of the tenuous options they may latch onto at this late hour I wouldnt even hazard a guess at.

As a preface, I have always enjoyed your posts. Sadly, intertwined in those posts, a clear abhorrence for my chosen profession became evident. That aside, I believe that Goldwater's interest in this case revolves solely around Gift Clause language. Specifically:

7. Gift or loan of credit; subsidies; stock ownership; joint ownership
Neither the state, nor any county, city, town, municipality, or other subdivision of the state shall ever give or loan its credit in the aid of, or make any donation or grant, by subsidy or otherwise, to any individual, association, or corporation, or become a subscriber to, or a shareholder in, any company or corporation, or become a joint owner with any person, company, or corporation, except as to such ownerships as may accrue to the state by operation or provision of law or as authorized by law solely for investment of the monies in the various funds of the state.

I believe that Goldwater was seeking a bond sale (or similar credit loan) to further their judicial review of the Gift Clause. Unfortunately, Glendale walked directly into the crosshair and sat down for a picnic.

 

[TGOTC]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/05/04/new-last-gasp-phoenix-coyotes.html

The Glendale City Council could vote on the new financing package next Tuesday with hopes of a very quick turnaround of the deal. Details of the plan could be released Friday by the city.

• Glendale’s $25 million payment to the NHL;

• $70 million from Hulsizer’s ownership group;

• Possibly another $37 million from Hulsizer’s group (the same amount as the Coyotes losses this season);

• A remaining $25 million that could come in several forms, according to sources.

The last $25 million could come from the NHL lowering its sale price, some kind of deferred payment plan for Hulsizer or some new financing from either the league or Glendale.

 

[RR]

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Coyotes-vote-could-be-held-Tuesday-121291549.html

I guess the end is near one way or another....we'll see Friday

Sounds like the source for both this article and the last posted on this page come from the Sunnucks article, which some suggest should be summarily dismissed as junk.

Friday? I say two weeks.

 

[Killion]

As a preface, I have always enjoyed your posts. Sadly, intertwined in those posts, a clear abhorrence for my chosen profession became evident......

Thanks, and absolutely the wrong bead on this poster. Not only do I have several friends (and relatives) who share your profession, I also rely on advice & guidance from legal council in business extensively & have a great deal of respect & admiration for lawyers. Nothing derisive ever meant nor implied. Quite the opposite in fact. I, like many others here really appreciate the experience & understanding you (and the other lawyers posting here) bring to what is clearly a complex & unprecedented transaction. Without your own & others legal opining from time to time, Id hazard to guess many of us, myself included, would be completely lost.

Note; I think you may have erred contextually pursuant to my comment about Gremlins@SFO CF.

 

[peter sullivan]

^ agreed...the lawyers here unravelling the spider's web of material adds a level of analysis that would otherwise be impossible for those of us who are not so inclined...it makes this forum an amazingly educational (and addictive) experience.

many thanks to them.

 

[Dado]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/05/04/new-last-gasp-phoenix-coyotes.html

They're missing $25M.