Phoenix XXXVI - There's got to be a morning after

[Timmy]

Then why do all the "deleted by" posts have my name by them?

I let you do the easy stuff.

 

[Howler Scores]

GoldwaterInst Goldwater Institute
Nick Dranias appeared yesterday on the @JimSharpe show to discuss the latest #Coyotes developments. http://is.gd/YIzHEU

In this interview Nick Dranias makes it sound like it's legal for them to pay the amount out of the Enterprise fund....

I forced myself to listen to it and he does say they enterprise fund would move closer to getting it done without an issue. I guess it’s because it’s using fees and not so much taxes?

 

[goyotes]

I forced myself to listen to it and he does say they enterprise fund would move closer to getting it done without an issue. I guess it’s because it’s using fees and not so much taxes?

As much as I don't align with the GWI on their interpretation of the Gift Clause, I agree with their position as to whether the Enterprise Fund is taxpayer money. It is comprised of collected fees, and not direct tax assessments.

 

[Grumpz]

I forced myself to listen to it and he does say they enterprise fund would move closer to getting it done without an issue. I guess it’s because it’s using fees and not so much taxes?

Dranis said that if the NHL cut the price in half, the enterprise fund could move it closer to getting it done. He also pointed out that after running a title search that GWI IN FACT confirmed that as of Jan 25th, 2011, the COG already owned the parking rights.

There you have it, the CoG lied and tried to buy parking rights they already owned, and tried to pull one over on the on pretty much everyone.

Priceless!

 

[Killion]

As much as I don't align with the GWI on their interpretation of the Gift Clause, I agree with their position as to whether the Enterprise Fund is taxpayer money. It is comprised of collected fees, and not direct tax assessments.

So basically, GW's not challenged the payment due to the fact that it came from the Enterprise Account?. I dont get it. Its taken them 11mnths to ascertain that the COG had every right to source the funds from the Enterprise Account because there "fee's" & not "taxes"?. Thats their excuse?. I say, Bolick et al are actually Lawyers are they not?. Members of the ABA?.

 

[peter sullivan]

then just buy the damn team with it already and get it over with!

 

[Dado]

So basically, GW's not challenged the payment due to the fact that it came from the Enterprise Account?. I dont get it.

Neither do I. However it's collected, or whatever it's called, it's still taxpayer money. Seems like GWI is taking the powder on this one.

Also curious how you run a title search on parking rights...

 

[Killion]

So, after baying at the moon for nearly a year, GW wont proceed with a suit over the $25M to the NHL because Glendales' actually done nothing wrong, GW just didnt like the "idea", admitting only now that it was perfectly legal. They also claim, NOW, to have done a "title search" on the parking rights last January, and determined THEN that the COG already owned said rights, yet, as recently as a month ago were seeking redress & clarification on that very issue; indeed, the very cornerstone of argument against the deal?.

Man, Ive just got a couple of words of advice for the COG, MH & the NHL;

1) Never Mind the Bolicks.
2) CHARGE!.

 

[Dado]

2) CHARGE!.

That would require them to have an actual sense of direction. Knowing these guys, they'd no doubt charge straight into Reno Creek.

 

[metalfoot]

Killion,
But CoG can't buy the parking rights for $100M if they already own them, si?

 

[PeeBee78]

So, after baying at the moon for nearly a year, GW wont proceed with a suit over the $25M to the NHL because Glendales' actually done nothing wrong, GW just didnt like the "idea", admitting only now that it was perfectly legal. They also claim, NOW, to have done a "title search" on the parking rights last January, and determined THEN that the COG already owned said rights, yet, as recently as a month ago were seeking redress & clarification on that very issue; indeed, the very cornerstone of argument against the deal?.

Man, Ive just got a couple of words of advice for the COG, MH & the NHL;

1) Never Mind the Bolicks.
2) CHARGE!.

Just to clarify they haven't known since January....the deal to assign the parking rights to the city is dated January 25th. It was found out about just before the cupcake summit and presented to the city's legal council in the meeting....

I find it interesting that the use of Enterprise money sounds like it's legal...last I checked it had some 400M in it. So why isn't this an open and shut case? Just give Hulsizer 100M from the enterprise fund.....

 

[Killion]

Neither do I. However it's collected, or whatever it's called, it's still taxpayer money. Seems like GWI is taking the powder on this one.

Also curious how you run a title search on parking rights...

I guess you just line-up with the rest of the slubs' in the City Clerks office, plunk down your $29.95 FEE which goes directly into the Enterprise Account, the COG eventually mailing you your records request, either in the form of Confetti or for an extra $3.95, blacked out with those special Pentagon issue highlighters, line X line & word X word..... As for the other bit Dado, if this was 1983 and we were discussing Miami, then ya, a whole lot of people were "taking a powder"; off of everything from priceless antique Venetian to dollar store vanity mirrors. But in Phoenix circa 2011?. A far right fundamentalist near on bunch of Baptist's like GW?. Perhaps they do indeed suffer from deviated septums', noses playing tricks on their minds when really theirs nothing odorous to begin with or worry about. Paranoid....

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Neither do I. However it's collected, or whatever it's called, it's still taxpayer money. Seems like GWI is taking the powder on this one.

Also curious how you run a title search on parking rights...

So this is the organization that sunk the bond deal? Riiiight....

 

[CasualFan]

It's odd how we all listened to the same interview yet came up with such varying accounts of what was said. I did not hear Dranias say that using the Enterprise Fund was acceptable.

There's been suggestions that the NHL might cut it's price for the team. There's been suggestions that the City might stop borrowing money and might use some sort of cash from an Enterprise Fund which means it's just cash the City set aside from fees. Um, you know. The latter is, is, is, not necessarily something that could fix the problem but if the NHL were to cut it's price in half, which would be reasonable ... they would move this deal a lot closer to something that would not require taxpayer money.

To paraphrase: Using the Enterprise Fund is not something that could fix the problem. The NHL cutting the price is Mr. Dranias' suggestion.

 

[Killion]

Killion, But CoG can't buy the parking rights for $100M if they already own them, si?

You wouldnt think so metalfoot. If they do indeed own them, I guess the only way they could get around it would be to assign them to the Leaseholder, and then buy them back, which is, if Im not very much mistaken, exactly what they are planning to do.

Just to clarify they haven't known since January....Just give Hulsizer 100M from the enterprise fund.....

I guess someone on the COG's legal team messed up on that one then..... And ya, thats what struck me, has GW inadvertently provided a road map to the COG to get this thing done?. If its Kosher to be using the Enterprise Account funds in this manner, with precedent already set, giddy up.....

 

[Howler Scores]

It's odd how we all listened to the same interview yet came up with such varying accounts of what was said. I did not hear Dranias say that using the Enterprise Fund was acceptable.



To paraphrase: Using the Enterprise Fund is not something that could fix the problem. The NHL cutting the price is Mr. Dranias' suggestion.

Indeed it’s not the smoking gun but the definition of latter is "being the second of two persons or things mentioned". I am looking at it as if he said the NHL could lower the price or Glendale could use the Enterprise Fund. While I won’t put much stock into a brief interview as people can misspeak, I personally interpret it as the Enterprise Fund isn’t something GWI will challenge.

 

[Killion]

It's odd how we all listened to the same interview yet came up with such varying accounts of what was said....

Well, there you go, Guilty as Charged, because, see, I didnt axually listen to the interview Councilor.... It seems with precedent set in using funds from the Enterprise Account, the GWI has provided the COG with a pathway to getting this done..... And cutting the price isnt an option. Next question?.

 

[roccerfeller]

So, after baying at the moon for nearly a year, GW wont proceed with a suit over the $25M to the NHL because Glendales' actually done nothing wrong, GW just didnt like the "idea", admitting only now that it was perfectly legal. They also claim, NOW, to have done a "title search" on the parking rights last January, and determined THEN that the COG already owned said rights, yet, as recently as a month ago were seeking redress & clarification on that very issue; indeed, the very cornerstone of argument against the deal?.

Man, Ive just got a couple of words of advice for the COG, MH & the NHL;

1) Never Mind the Bolicks.
2) CHARGE!.

Killion, please never stop posting.

 

[Roughneck]

Is that really relevant? If I'm driving through LA or NY do I really care about the individual neighborhood names or 'cities' I might cross into? Not particularly. There are precious few who care about what name their municipality goes by, and they all live in Scottsdale. Phoenix is one large blob of urban sprawl. Cities matter very little.

Part of the reason why Glendale fought so hard on behalf of the other cities has to do with the fact that the state generates a lot of income through tourism. Any sort of money spent on hotel rooms, for example, gets taxed and kicked back to the AZ Sports & Tourism Authority. I believe that is part of the financing on the Cardinal's stadium. The hockey arena, on the other hand, has no such influx of cash because it doesn't draw national events like BCS or Superbowl games. At least, not enough to warrant an investment from the authority.

You make an excellent point. I think when people try to take too much of a micro-economic view they miss out on the big picture.

Every tourism dollar generated specifically from folks in the greater Phoenix area for the Super Bowl (yes, even Scottsdale) went to Maricopa County businesses (regardless of cities); and generated tax revenues for those cities, the county and state.

It also helped all those businesses significantly drive new business into their establishments and positioned themselves for return business. Applies to Glendale businesses, too.

And, most certainly, as Glendale grows and continues to develop retail, hotel, and commercial property around the UOP Stadium, Jobing and Westgate, more of those dollars will stay in Glendale.

1) It's actually known more as "Sky Harbor International" than "Phoenix International".

2) Glendale wasn't pleased about the stadium being named University of Phoenix but they didn't have a choice in that.

3) Phoenix International Raceway (NASCAR) is in the city of Goodyear (yes... named for the tire company) but they aren't complaining.

4) PGA events with the name "Phoenix" are played in Scottsdale. They haven't complained either.

5) And if the Coyotes end up staying they'll be known as the Arizona Coyotes. Only the Suns will be left with the "Phoenix" name.

While all good points I think you may have missed mine (or maybe I just didn't express it well enough). The economic benefit for all of Phoenix, and even Arizona is there, but it was essentially at the cost to Glendale. You host these events for an economic boost or a prestige boost, but ideally both. Glendale basically got neither.

It's like a group project that Glendale did all the work for while the others took the prize money and most of the credit.

 

[Killion]

It's like a group project...

Indeed. A Collective. Like a Hive. Amalgamation. Amalgamate. Resistance is futile....

 

[Retail1LO*]

If the city of Glendale is just...going to give Hulsizer money from the Enterprise Fund...why doesn't the city of Glendale just put up a little bit more and buy the team themselves? Green Bay owns the Packers. What's wrong with Glendale owning the Coyotes?

 

[goyotes]

Neither do I. However it's collected, or whatever it's called, it's still taxpayer money. Seems like GWI is taking the powder on this one.

Also curious how you run a title search on parking rights...

They ran a title search for who owns the property. Parking rights a different, but the GWI continues to assume ownership of the dirt = ownership of parking rights.

We can go round and round on this but the parking rights have never vested with the CoG. They have always vested with the tenant. I don't think this point is lost on the GWI. I believe they continue to bang the drum cause it makes a good sound bite.

 

[goyotes]

Killion,
But CoG can't buy the parking rights for $100M if they already own them, si?

They don't own them. They own the dirt. The GWI is misrepresenting the seperate and distinct parking rights that vest with tenants.

I will admit the answer takes some work to get to, but the GWI has been engage in PR over this for months. No real lawyering has been done of any consequence.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://hockeyjobs.nhl.com/teamwork/r.cfm?i=35738

Coyotes hiring DB manager.

Seems like the "plan" is they stay in Arizona.

 

[phamJET]

The chevy desk on HNIC said the coyotes buying the parking rights is a sham, and GWI has documents to back it up.