Phoenix XXVII: Can we all get along?

[Whileee]

My profession entails a considerable amount of intellectual debate and critique.

I have learned to be wary of those who engage in two types of discourse...

1) Argumentum ad hominem.
2) "Not always right, but never in doubt".

I find that such wariness serves well on these discussion boards too.

 

[kmad]

Solution to Coyotes' attendance problems: have them play the Canucks 41 times a year.

 

[MaskedSonja]

No... the theme has changed to discussions about ourselves... feel like adding any self reflection there Dado?

I started out as a child.....

 

[kmad]

I'd argue that the discrepancy between Winnipeg trolls and Phoenix trolls is a result of the relative sizes of the fanbases rather than a geographically influenced inherent moral high road.

 

[crazed323]

The COG wants to buy a parking lot for 68% of their General fund budget for 2011.


Q: What is the total General Fund operating budget?
A: The fiscal year 2011 operating budget for the general fund only is $147 million.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/2011Budget/index.cfm

 

[AllByDesign]

People generally don't say PHO is not a viable market. THey wail about how hockey does not belong in the desert, or how the various incompetents' previous failures to make a profit is proof positive that hockey will never work in the sunbelt.

It is a poor stance, for sure. I believe that there is a business model that would support the Coyotes in Glendale. If a great "hands on" owner could be found to get involved there are great odds for success. The NHL just needs to sell the team for current market value and it works.

 

[AtomBlaster]

mod: deleted

You know there are a lot of similarities between Winnipeg 1995 & Phoenix of present. The fans of both cities are victims. I am sick and tired of seenig both fans getting dragged through the mud. I have enjoyed reading the passion on both sides of the debate. If their were more people with the passion of guys like Goyotes et all then maybe the Phoenix situation would not be in dire straights. I am not a socialite on the social media scene but have to speak out.

I would think that the people of Phoenix & Winnipeg would agree that the heritage of this team is "ours" both cities. No wonder why the passion is there. Our past Phoenix's present if not Phoenix's future then hopefully ours (if it comes to that).

I went to all the rallies, donated money to save the Jets. Wept when they left but am glad now that our city did not bend over for Shenkarow & friends. People in Winnipeg lost their jobs and survived. It was not pleasant for them.

Many seniors from Winnipeg spend the winters in Phoenix and contribute to their economy. Is the bad will towards Winnipeg so bad I should warn my friend who just bought a home there for his pending retirement that he should rethink his purchase.

I admit that I hope for a team in the Peg, I would love for it to be the Phoenix franchise because of our shared past. That said I feel for the fans in Phoenix because I was in your shoes. I wait and am hoping the powers that be are willing to move "our" team back to Winnipeg should you not be successfull. Thank you for looking after the team, and should things go awry, hopefully we can take over for you like you did for us.

Our common bond the Franchise.

 

[blues10]

Has anyone seen or heard from Mr. Hulsizer lately? He does seem to be one of the main characters in this three ring circus (NHL, COG, Hulsizer). I would have expected that some credible news agency would attempt to interview the potential new owner of the Coyotes. Is he playing a game of hide and seek? Mathew, Mathew, where are you? where are you? come out, come out wherever you are!

 

[Fugu]

Alright......

Can we get back on topic?

I may have to ban GC from this thread, and the Peg thread, just to keep the conversation from turning to him.

Tongue in cheek, yes, but everyone must consider what that means.

 

[GSC2k2*]

It is a poor stance, for sure. I believe that there is a business model that would support the Coyotes in Glendale. If a great "hands on" owner could be found to get involved there are great odds for success. The NHL just needs to sell the team for current market value and it works.

I think you are spot on. Fortunately, the NHL has a buyer for the current market value , so I take it you anticipate closing soon enough.

 

[Egil]

Alright......

Can we get back on topic?

I may have to ban GC from this thread, and the Peg thread, just to keep the conversation from turning to him.

Tongue in cheek, yes, but everyone must consider what that means.

I know that this is Blasphemy on these boards, but why don't you make a seperate ask GSC2K2 thread?

 

[crazed323]

I think you are spot on. Fortunately, the NHL has a buyer for the current market value , so I take it you anticipate closing soon enough.

are done

A guy named Sheen has a better shot at getting back on something called Two and a Half Men.

 

[kmad]

ITT we discuss the ramifications of GSC's parenting strategies on the long-term sustainability of ice hockey in Glendale.

 

[Fugu]

I know that this is Blasphemy on these boards, but why don't you make a seperate ask GSC2K2 thread?

The mods had a much more evil plot. Lock GC, Crazy_Ike, Fidel and Jeffrey in a thread together.





Disclaimer: Yes, I love all you guys.

 

[AtomBlaster]

I can buy all of that (other than the notion that a hockey fan is a "victim" if their team leaves), but you should know that I am not a Coyotes fan. I could not care less about their team as a team. I join you in directing the sentiments to them.

Don't necessarily mean a victim by losing the team. We are victims because of the emotional roller coaster rides that Bettman, civic governments, media, and owners/potential owners put us "the fans" through. Because we are passionate we become suckers for their whims of the week.

One note is that I do applaud the lengths that Glendale is willing to go to. I also admit that I am glad Winnipeg didn't go that far in the 90's because I am sure we would have failed. By allowing things to play out Winnipeg is in a much better position to succeed than it was then. The catch is we can't just say ok were ready now, sign us up for a team. We must wait for our opportunity and be ready when it is offered.

The roller coaster is that both cities are on it waiting for an answer one way or another. One waiting to find out if they get to keep their team the other waiting to see if we will get the opportunity to rise from the ashes.

Again two great cities with a shared past, present and future.

 

[Fugu]

I just crossed the Atlantic back to the home side, and am waiting for my connecting flight.


Has anything happened in the last 24 hours?

And Canada is civilized. They have free Wi-Fi in the airport.

 

[Killion]

Balsillie maintains that he was used as a stocking horse by the NHL, who inserted a no-relocation clause into the deal to purchase the Penguins at the last moment. Who's telling the truth? Neither side has proven candid or trustworthy in the past.

Really. I tend to believe Mario Lemieux's, Leipolds' & others versions'. From Pittsburgh to Nashville through Phoenix. As an objective pro-Hamilton supporter, Rodier & Balsillie's ploys' did not do the city any favors and may have Poisoned the Well for another decade, past the lifespan of Copps', costing whomever eventually winds up with a franchise there another $500M+ in arena construction costs.

"Daly wrote that the Coyotes’ potential move would not have “any impact on our ongoing television negotiations†and the topic had not even been raised in discussion".

Of course. Suggesting the NHL is simply hanging on in Phoenix in order to secure a lucrative broadcast contract is a Red Herring. Ya, it'd be nice to have it, but not when the costs to do so exceeds the return. Is their an NFL team in LA?.

Since I am a lifelong Habs supporter for over 40 years....

Watch out for this one people; Provocateur with a Franco/American Agenda.

 

[ATHF]

The COG wants to buy a parking lot for 68% of their General fund budget for 2011.


Q: What is the total General Fund operating budget?
A: The fiscal year 2011 operating budget for the general fund only is $147 million.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/2011Budget/index.cfm

But....but.....they're buying it for THIRTY years...so that makes it seem like it makes a lot more sense....right? Right?

 

[GSC2k2*]

The mods had a much more evil plot. Lock GC, Crazy_Ike, Fidel and Jeffrey in a thread together.





Disclaimer: Yes, I love all you guys.

Only if I get an appropriate cut of the gate and PPV buys. For the right cash, I might even turn on Crazy Ike and toss him into the cage wall a few times.

 

[crazed323]

But....but.....they're buying it for THIRTY years...so that makes it seem like it makes a lot more sense....right? Right?

I guess so... but I haven't included the potential interest. What is the total cost of the bonds and interest per year. I know it was discussed at length just to lazy to go back and find the numbers.

It also says on the website that the their budget has been reduced each of the last three years and they were able to balance the budget everytime, but at what cost.

There was a 14 million shortfall last year that they had to come up with. Not sure where they cut spending.

 

[GSC2k2*]

I guess so... but I haven't included the potential interest. What is the total cost of the bonds and interest per year. I know it was discussed at length just to lazy to go back and find the numbers.

It also says on the website that the their budget has been reduced each of the last three years and they were able to balance the budget everytime, but at what cost.

There was a 14 million shortfall last year that they had to come up with. Not sure where they cut spending.

I think it was more like a $25M shortfall. I think they covered it with a combination of cuts and taking money from their reserve. IT is of questionable relevance to the Coyotes, since no one REALLY cares about taxpayer services or COG budget matters except for the CoG taxpayers.

 

[crazed323]

Since 50% of their general fund covers public safety, I suppose they could cut a bit of the spending on that.

 

[Killion]

Canada is civilized...

In your absence Fugu?. Well, amongst other things, Clint Bolick, lead litigator, author, Research Fellow with Stanfords Hoover Institute, Bon Vivant & Gadfly would seem to agree that "Canada is civilized" and likely a vast, untapped & rich market for donations.. He & his wife joined a "Return the Coyotes to Winnipeg & Support the Goldwater Institute" Facebook page, though Clint apparently thought better of it, leaving his Wife to hold the family's silver.

 

[TRVIPERS]

Back on topic.

According to DAVID SHOALTS
Quote:
"Oh, by the way, about that $25-million, which the Glendale politicians took out of an account earmarked for expenses in keeping their city liveable. Hulsizer promised to hand that over to the city once he buys the team, so no sale means the NHL is entitled to keep it.
And good luck to the city if it tries to get it back from the NHL. So goodbye Coyotes and goodbye another $25-million for good measure."

Now if this deal falls apart and the NHL indeed does keep the 25M that COG put up to cover loses,can GWI sue the COG for giving this money to a private entity (being the NHL) and not receiving anything in return?

 

[crazed323]

I think it was more like a $25M shortfall. I think they covered it with a combination of cuts and taking money from their reserve. IT is of questionable relevance to the Coyotes, since no one REALLY cares about taxpayer services or COG budget matters except for the CoG taxpayers.

Really I don't care one bit about the services in Glendale. However, lots of arguments for keeping the Coyotes in Glendale revolves around the economic impact to the area.

If the COG goes through with the bond sale, and the parking does not cover the costs. What is the economic impact then?