Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?

[MsMeow]

X2

A post recession winning Phoenix hockey club will be fine......A new arena with a better location wouldn't hurt.

With the arena in Glendale sitting mostly empty? I can't see them trying to go back to Phoenix if the Yotes leave.

 

[cbcwpg]

Very impressive. Sheer genius. You know, except for the NHL's complete and utter abject failure at finding someone, anyone, to purchase the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale without receiving city subsidies that violate the state constitution. Minor detail though. Aside from that tiny little nagging issue, very impressive.

Think about the numbers. Over 6,500,000,000 people on earth and not one of us wants to buy the team and keep it in Glendale straight up. Talk about being unwanted.

 

[RAgIn]

Damn RAgIn, you scooped me once again!

Ha! You did it to me once or twice this week. It's funny how that works sometimes. Not much of a scoop though. Scruggs didn't reveal anything new.

 

[billy blaze]

could have all been avoided if MLSE let Jimmy move in next door.

 

[Ernie]

Here is an opinion column by Mayor Scruggs:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/2011/03/03/20110303scruggs04.html

It's awfully familiar to her press conference from this afternoon.

Seems rather desperate. The Goldwater Institute is a special interest group. It suits their ideology to put the kibosh to the whole thing rather than allow Glendale to double down.

 

[Fugu]

G&M's take on the situation

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...titute-ready-to-nuke-glendale/article1929366/

He says $116m was to be given to MH, +$97m over five years. The other reports have $100m.

 

[Ludwig Fell Down]

Scruggs statement and article were great.

I can do this too. Unsubstantiated claims without taking questions or leaving the other side an opportunity for rebuttal. It's fun!!


The Boston Bruins are at a critical juncture in completing their quest to win the Stanley Cup, for the first time in 38 years.

Their new first line center, Ludwig Fell Down, will help compete for the NHL's top prize while keeping the team's salary cap situation reasonable, because he is only requesting $1.5 million per season plus bonuses.

Unfortunately, the Bruins ability to field a competitive team and win the Stanley Cup has been significantly hindered by the team's management and their refusal to name me first line center.

These baseless refusals to insert me in the lineup continue even after the Ludwig has provided the team with all of the statistics it has requested. Since December, he has been 5th in scoring on his over 40 mens league team.

I have been more than willing to work with Bruins management, and respect the team's role in evaluating player talent. However, it is outrageous that the Bruins are now actively working to undermine their ability to field a top flight team.

So, the personnel evaluation group is now becoming a detriment to the very fans they claim to support!

I have personally requested a face-to-face meeting with Bruins management so I can share the reasons why this agreement is beneficial to the team.

Unfortunately, my request for a meeting received a "resounding no" from the Bruins president and chief executive.

Ludwig's and the Bruins Management's objectives should be the same: serving for the benefit of our fans and winning the Stanely Cup.

 

[Coach]

Here is an opinion column by Mayor Scruggs:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/2011/03/03/20110303scruggs04.html

It's awfully familiar to her press conference from this afternoon.

No point letting the facts get in the way of a good story.


Our attorneys have met with their attorneys several times. The Goldwater Institute has had these documents for months, and the city has provided them the necessary time to conclude their investigation.

They just gave Goldwater 400 pages of documents on Friday. Even Hulsizer went on record as saying the files could of been delivered in a more timely fashion.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

One might say that if genius were evident, the entire situation would have been avoided.

I wasn't aware the US government had passed legislation allowing the NHL to prevent people from declaring bankruptcy. He had a buyer lined up, what more was there to do?

It has been a fiasco in spite of the NHL's ability to navigate the mine field. Avoiding mine fields is an option you don't consider. (One thing here doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.)

Sometimes you get a minefield dumped on top of you while you were just moving through an open field. (They're called FASCAM, by the way.) IMO for the Coyotes to endure and thrive in Glendale, they needed to have less of a perfect storm of ineptitude and poor lease, but I don't think they expected the title of "least successful franchise in the NHL" would follow them from Winnipeg.

Very impressive. Sheer genius. You know, except for the NHL's complete and utter abject failure at finding someone, anyone, to purchase the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale without receiving city subsidies that violate the state constitution. Minor detail though. Aside from that tiny little nagging issue, very impressive.

Is this sarcastic? Because if it is, it very much misses the mark. The NHL has established what it believes the franchise needs to survive in a poisoned market. It is not what the franchise needed before the poisoning, as evidenced by the fact the league DID find a buyer back then who was only driven out by the fact the current people "owning" the team were trying to destroy it. But it is what it is now, and if Glendale cannot give the franchise what it needs to survive after the punishment inflicted on it by Moyes and Balsillie, then it will move.

I find the league's insistence on finding a deal that actually works for the franchise to be one of the smartest things it has done in this whole ordeal, and that's pretty impressive. No selling the team just to have it fail, which is what it would do if the people who mistakenly think this is all about Bettman's ego were actually correct.

 

[WpgJets]

He says $116m was to be given to MH, +$97m over five years. The other reports have $100m.

The city sells bonds (doubt it) Hulsizer gets 100 million, 97 million for arena and losses, where does this 16million go to ??

 

[Coach]

CBS picks up the story.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/story/14767105/watchdog-group-accused-of-hindering-coyotes-sale

 

[GSC2k2*]

Very impressive. Sheer genius. You know, except for the NHL's complete and utter abject failure at finding someone, anyone, to purchase the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale without receiving city subsidies that violate the state constitution. Minor detail though. Aside from that tiny little nagging issue, very impressive.

Interesting. Since we are talking "minor details", maybe you can show everyone that court ruling that states that the transaction violates the state constitution. I would settle for that "minor detail" of GWI having obtained an injunction.

Since I already know that does not exist, how about your cogent analysis as to why the transaction is a subsidy as contemplated under the AZ Constitution?

Since I have never seen that, how about the cogent analysis of ANYONE that you can dig up as to why it is a subsidy?

If you can dig THAT up, then you have other sources than me, because I read almost every out there and have yet to see one.

I am not trying to pick on you or make fun of you. All these folks, while I was gone, decided that it was a subsidy. No analysis took place, and I read every thread.

Funny how Scruggy forgot to mention in her little creative writing project that they're handing over $100 million upfront and $97 million following shortly thereafter to some guy from Chicago just to entice him into signing a lease. Very strange article. The non-hockey-lovin' reader may very well wonder just why in the name of Hades does the city need to be issuing bonds to raise money as part of a lease signing party. Usually the lessor gets money from the lessee, not the other way around.

Tenants get money all the time from landlords. You should ask the question first, I would think. But that's just me.

BTW, while you are answering some of the questions above, you can consider how a "non-hockey-lovin' reader" would be reading this article? Accident? Torture? Clockwork Orange type of deal?

 

[AllByDesign]

Sometimes you get a minefield dumped on top of you while you were just moving through an open field. (They're called FASCAM, by the way.) IMO for the Coyotes to endure and thrive in Glendale, they needed to have less of a perfect storm of ineptitude and poor lease, but I don't think they expected the title of "least successful franchise in the NHL" would follow them from Winnipeg.

Only one question. Of the NHL franchises that do not own their own building would you care to list which teams had a more enviable lease arrangement? Oh and it would also be appreciated if you supplied the figures to support your position.

Thanks

 

[Skarjak]

You can't seriously say the NHL is getting away from this with its head held high. When one of your franchises fails so miserably that you feel the need to buy it and own it for two whole seasons in a desperate attempt to find an owner, you can't really pat yourself on the back. It is really an embarrassment for any major sports league to have to buy one of its teams and manage it for an extended period of time.

When you invest so much effort in making something work and it fails, you can't claim a moral victory. If this deals fails, it's a big blow to the NHL's Southern expansion strategy and might just open the floodgates for relocation of other teams.

 

[MotorMaster]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/2011/03/04/20110304frilets043.html

Winnipeg thanks you as well.

 

[GSC2k2*]

He says $116m was to be given to MH, +$97m over five years. The other reports have $100m.

In the actual agreement, Section 9.9.1 confirms the payment to be $100M. Again, Mr. Brunt's factchecking process proves to be less than robust, shall we say.

 

[Fugu]

I wasn't aware the US government had passed legislation allowing the NHL to prevent people from declaring bankruptcy. He had a buyer lined up, what more was there to do?

Has nothing to do with everything that came before that time. Had Bettman been doing his job, he surely would have noticed how much money Phoenix was making, and had a reasonable guess at how much they were losing.

Wasn't Moyes trying to sell the team from about 2006? So, yeah, one might consider that he couldn't just keep doing it.

Sometimes you get a minefield dumped on top of you while you were just moving through an open field. (They're called FASCAM, by the way.) IMO for the Coyotes to endure and thrive in Glendale, they needed to have less of a perfect storm of ineptitude and poor lease, but I don't think they expected the title of "least successful franchise in the NHL" would follow them from Winnipeg.

Certainly Moyes made things interesting for the league, I'll grant you that. You at least are admitting that the team had a HORRIBLE lease. It wasn't just Moyes being goofy.

Is this sarcastic? Because if it is, it very much misses the mark. The NHL has established what it believes the franchise needs to survive in a poisoned market. It is not what the franchise needed before the poisoning, as evidenced by the fact the league DID find a buyer back then who was only driven out by the fact the current people "owning" the team were trying to destroy it. But it is what it is now, and if Glendale cannot give the franchise what it needs to survive after the punishment inflicted on it by Moyes and Balsillie, then it will move.

No, this is the point. If the extraordinary measures we see now are what's needed to help this team survive, are you saying that Moyes could have done it with the old lease? Heck, he wasn't even going to get $18-19m for managing the arena, let alone $100m upfront.

If Moyes had received half the help being doled out now, this entire situation might have been avoided.

I find the league's insistence on finding a deal that actually works for the franchise to be one of the smartest things it has done in this whole ordeal, and that's pretty impressive. No selling the team just to have it fail, which is what it would do if the people who mistakenly think this is all about Bettman's ego were actually correct.

I'm not sure I know what you mean in this paragraph. The entire point of contention here is that this deal is taking public money and handing it over to a private entity or party. The only way the team is viable is with public bonds and potentially excise taxes to back it up.

I'm not sure I think this is a good move for the league as far as ownership models. This goes beyond who the team is and where it's located, but it would represent a crossing of the Rubicon for pro sports economic models.

 

[DopeyFish]

Mayor Scruggs,

There's a difference between thousands of documents and ALL the documents.

Signed picky hockey fan
:p

 

[MAROONSRoad]

They wouldnt give it for starters. Crazy talk. Spit out by Mcown last week & now oft repeated elsewhere as possible fact. But ya; "All because of Gary's ego" according to Bob. Ah, dont think so. I wonder if any of those idiots back there ever stop to realize that if not for the "total incompetence & outsized ego's, arrogance & lying liar ways" of the likes of Gary Bettman, Bill Daly & MLSE they'd all be out of work?.....

Are you implying that the NHL (and other sports leagues) wouldn't exist -- for guys like McCown to comment on -- if not for Bettman, Daly and the current owners of the Leafs? The suits are replaceable you know. The NHL existed before them and will do so after they move on. I am not trying to defend McCown here, although I do find him entertaining at times.

GHOST

 

[Fugu]

Interesting. Since we are talking "minor details", maybe you can show everyone that court ruling that states that the transaction violates the state constitution. I would settle for that "minor detail" of GWI having obtained an injunction.

Since I already know that does not exist, how about your cogent analysis as to why the transaction is a subsidy as contemplated under the AZ Constitution?

Since I have never seen that, how about the cogent analysis of ANYONE that you can dig up as to why it is a subsidy?

If you can dig THAT up, then you have other sources than me, because I read almost every out there and have yet to see one.

I am not trying to pick on you or make fun of you. All these folks, while I was gone, decided that it was a subsidy. No analysis took place, and I read every thread.

What analysis needs to take place?


The reason we're all here is because someone thinks it violates the constitution of AZ (GWI), and here we are.


Hulsizer should just go ahead and buy the team WITH HIS OWN MONEY.

He can start charging for parking immediately to help pay the bills, and then he and Glendale can work out a nice little agreement where he sells them those rights. They could do annual payments, you know, to keep things from getting too complicated.

 

[AllByDesign]

Tenants get money all the time from landlords. You should ask the question first, I would think. But that's just me.

Generally as a co-pay for infrastructure or renovations needed to accomodate the space or intent of use. The Jobbing.com is being transfered to new tenants with the space being used for an identical purpose.

It's not as if part of the agreement would be Matt saying "Hey, if we had a new video lotto area on the main floor I could generate more revenue. So I wish to negotiate some of the costs to develop this area in your arena"

In all fairness, I can't find any similarities between Hulsizer's deal with the COG and other lease arrangements. Granted every deal has the potential for nuance and creativity. Each can be unique like a snowflake. I only drive the point because the impression I get from you when you describe an aspect of this transaction you speak as if it relates to other instances that are common place.

 

[MAROONSRoad]

Here is an opinion column by Mayor Scruggs:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/2011/03/03/20110303scruggs04.html

It's awfully familiar to her press conference from this afternoon.

Same script writers, same content.

GHOST

 

[RAgIn]

No point letting the facts get in the way of a good story.


Our attorneys have met with their attorneys several times. The Goldwater Institute has had these documents for months, and the city has provided them the necessary time to conclude their investigation.

They just gave Goldwater 400 pages of documents on Friday. Even Hulsizer went on record as saying the files could of been delivered in a more timely fashion.

Its evident that the COG is trying to twist some information via the media. It's worked for many months, but now, GWI is speaking out more often. Downplaying much of the COG is saying and doing.

 

[AllByDesign]

Hulsizer should just go ahead and buy the team WITH HIS OWN MONEY.

He can start charging for parking immediately to help pay the bills, and then he and Glendale can work out a nice little agreement where he sells them those rights. They could do annual payments, you know, to keep things from getting too complicated.

Back when Hulsizer first came on the scene for our purposes, he noted that the asking price for the team was out of line and it was an issue. The NHL re-affirmed their stance that the price wasn't negotiable.

The only way MH was interested in owning this team was with the COG bridging the difference. What you propose, Fugu, makes perfect sense. The Economics at the "purchase level" would not allow a make sense solution at the lease level.

 

[Fugu]

Back when Hulsizer first came on the scene for our purposes, he noted that the asking price for the team was out of line and it was an issue. The NHL re-affirmed their stance that the price wasn't negotiable.

The only way MH was interested in owning this team was with the COG bridging the difference. What you propose, Fugu, makes perfect sense. The Economics at the "purchase level" would not allow a make sense solution at the lease level.

This entire episode would make on hell of a case study for Economics studies.

The NHL is also failing to accept that the price they paid in BK court was to protect their right on choosing members of their club; and that current members could only sell that which they owned (their location), not another territory.

Thus the "asking price" seems to have very little to do with the Coyotes.