Phoenix XLVIII: Of Mice and Lieberman

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Cryogenic Man

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Mar 6, 2012
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I agree.

The momentum has changed quite a bit even in the last 24 hours around here. MOST of the radio stations are talking not just about the ownership situation but their amazing run at the Stanley Cup.

Removing as much emotion as I can and looking at this: I think this is the real deal. I feel Mr. Jamison is a very professional owner and is not bush league.

I agree that the bandwagon is filling up quick! There is alot of buzz around the team and their performance. I also think that Bettman would not have put an incompetent Jamison in the lion's den.

That being said, what happens once the team is eliminated? I know from a fan's perspective you hope they go all the way, and they might, but what will happen if the LA Kings finish them in 5?

Will the bandwagon stay full? or will people drop their towels and return to their normal lifes? leaving the Coyotes a distant memory behind?

I think about that, and I believe that's where the problem lies. Once this is over, do the bandwagon fans stay or go? I pick the latter.
 

Cryogenic Man

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Mar 6, 2012
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I hope so - if GB is sticking it to the CoG (again), this time it is over the top. I guess we will know soon.

As I have said before, if GJ can get $20M from the city, $15M from revenue sharing and there is a 50-50 split along with a lower floor after the new CBA, he might just make this work.

:)
That would still give you only about $45 million with the 50-50 split added. The team costs about $90 million a year to run. Where does the rest come from? ticket sales, merchandise, hot dogs, beer etc.. they would still be short about $20M.

That's why Daly said that they are looking for an ownership group with financial wherewithal, this way they can absorb losses.
 

GordonGraham

Registered User
Sep 12, 2009
3,843
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I agree that the bandwagon is filling up quick! There is alot of buzz around the team and their performance. I also think that Bettman would not have put an incompetent Jamison in the lion's den.

That being said, what happens once the team is eliminated? I know from a fan's perspective you hope they go all the way, and they might, but what will happen if the LA Kings finish them in 5?

Will the bandwagon stay full? or will people drop their towels and return to their normal lifes? leaving the Coyotes a distant memory behind?

I think about that, and I believe that's where the problem lies. Once this is over, do the bandwagon fans stay or go? I pick the latter.

Good questions im also very curious to see how the columbus blue jackets will draw on a tuesday night in november
 

OttawaRoughRiderFan*

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That would still give you only about $45 million with the 50-50 split added. The team costs about $90 million a year to run. Where does the rest come from? ticket sales, merchandise, hot dogs, beer etc.. they would still be short about $20M.

That's why Daly said that they are looking for an ownership group with financial wherewithal, this way they can absorb losses.

Yes. A few TV people have also said they will still be $20M short. That, I don't know.
 

OttawaRoughRiderFan*

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Canada 1 - Switzerland 1 at the World Championships - 2nd period.

Why can't we beat these guys???

:(
 

thegreaterikku

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Jan 10, 2012
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St-Ambroise
That would still give you only about $45 million with the 50-50 split added. The team costs about $90 million a year to run. Where does the rest come from? ticket sales, merchandise, hot dogs, beer etc.. they would still be short about $20M.

That's why Daly said that they are looking for an ownership group with financial wherewithal, this way they can absorb losses.

The main problem with US teams is that the owner doesn't always have other businesses to play with. Take Montreal. Even if nobody would come to see the habs, Molson still has Evenko and Evenko makes more money a year than hockey ticket sales alone. This is why owners should look to invest more in their city, arena, community so that money could come from different sources.

Like if Jamison owns the Coyotes and that's it... we will still talk about the relocation every years. Hopefully he has other means of revenue because in the US, it's harder to cater the fan and make money on hockey operation alone.
 

Cryogenic Man

Registered User
Mar 6, 2012
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The main problem with US teams is that the owner doesn't always have other businesses to play with. Take Montreal. Even if nobody would come to see the habs, Molson still has Evenko and Evenko makes more money a year than hockey ticket sales alone. This is why owners should look to invest more in their city, arena, community so that money could come from different sources.

Like if Jamison owns the Coyotes and that's it... we will still talk about the relocation every years. Hopefully he has other means of revenue because in the US, it's harder to cater the fan and make money on hockey operation alone.

This is why i don't believe it will work in Glendale. Jamison has apparently collected the necessary funds to purchase the Coyotes, at least that's what is being reported, but i don't see them having money to absorb losses and invest in the city, arena or community outreach marketing programs.

I don't believe they will have the necessary money to dao any of those things.
 

CoyotesJetsFan

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
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This is why i don't believe it will work in Glendale. Jamison has apparently collected the necessary funds to purchase the Coyotes, at least that's what is being reported, but i don't see them having money to absorb losses and invest in the city, arena or community outreach marketing programs.

I don't believe they will have the necessary money to dao any of those things.

The current business model does not work. That has been proven. (even though I would argue alot has been due to mismanagement on and off ice and not the Phoenix market) What most people are missing is that guys with this kind of cash to invest have a vision of how things can be. Not how they can repeat history. Since Jamison is not the money guy himself, his investors are insisting on the best deal possible to mitigate their risk. Hence the reason for the higher fee from COG in the early years. THE BOG would not approve this group if they didn't have the means to fund this for the foreseaable future. I expect this deal to be structured to where all parties (including the NHL) have some skin in the game for the first 1-5 years.

Bottom line for me as a fan is nothing else matters if the arena isn't at least 90% full on average and with us paying a reasonable price per ticket (no deep discounts). If this happens sponsorships, concessions, TV/Radio, and merchandise will follow. If not the team should move.
 

JetsFanForever

Registered User
May 7, 2012
154
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The current business model does not work. That has been proven. (even though I would argue alot has been due to mismanagement on and off ice and not the Phoenix market) What most people are missing is that guys with this kind of cash to invest have a vision of how things can be. Not how they can repeat history. Since Jamison is not the money guy himself, his investors are insisting on the best deal possible to mitigate their risk. Hence the reason for the higher fee from COG in the early years. THE BOG would not approve this group if they didn't have the means to fund this for the foreseaable future. I expect this deal to be structured to where all parties (including the NHL) have some skin in the game for the first 1-5 years.

Bottom line for me as a fan is nothing else matters if the arena isn't at least 90% full on average and with us paying a reasonable price per ticket (no deep discounts). If this happens sponsorships, concessions, TV/Radio, and merchandise will follow. If not the team should move.

First bolded point - The BOG hasn't approved anything yet. Bettman announced a tentative deal. Also, if you are putting your faith in the BOG to approve only good owners, then I would suggest that you look into the history of the NHL in regards to some of the owners they have approved. Not exactly a great track record.

For the second point - The Coyotes have never in their history hit anything close to 90% capacity with the fans paying anything near average NHL ticket prices, so I for one am very sceptical that it can ever be done, new owner or not.
 

CoyotesJetsFan

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
111
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First bolded point - The BOG hasn't approved anything yet. Bettman announced a tentative deal. Also, if you are putting your faith in the BOG to approve only good owners, then I would suggest that you look into the history of the NHL in regards to some of the owners they have approved. Not exactly a great track record.

For the second point - The Coyotes have never in their history hit anything close to 90% capacity with the fans paying anything near average NHL ticket prices, so I for one am very sceptical that it can ever be done, new owner or not.

I would never put faith in the quality of any potential owner. Bettman and Daly would not have let it get this far without being comfortable that this group could fund the operations for an extended period of time. Agreed there hasn't been an OFFICIAL approval but the BOG would not reject them at this point.

I am skeptical as well that's why I am very interested to see if Jamison can do it.
 

CGG

Registered User
Jan 6, 2005
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I would never put faith in the quality of any potential owner. Bettman and Daly would not have let it get this far without being comfortable that this group could fund the operations for an extended period of time. Agreed there hasn't been an OFFICIAL approval but the BOG would not reject them at this point.

I am skeptical as well that's why I am very interested to see if Jamison can do it.

Have you heard of Matt Hulsizer? He got a lot further than this, and it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt when he crapped out on St Louis that the guy didn't have the coin. I would sincerely hope the NHL would have figured this out if they were ever actually at the point of approving him for Phoenix or STL.

Have you heard of the Ice Edge Holdings clowns? They have less money than I do, but got much further than this as well. They had an approved MOU that the COG voted yes to.

Again, the shananigans of Monday should in no way be used as proof that this ownership group has money, will be approved, will be able to sustain losses, or will be able to get a lease done with Glendale that doesn't get smacked by Goldwater.
 

GuelphStormer

Registered User
Mar 20, 2012
3,808
497
Guelph, ON
I say Scruggsie should just come right out and demand that the NHL hold a STH drive and require at least 9,000 in sales before the city agrees to a single additional penny.
 

Nordskull

WAITING FOR NORDS
Sep 29, 2011
2,268
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Saguenay, Qc
Never had the pleasure of trying that. Unibroue is my favorite Quebec brewery, actually, my faveorite anywhere!

Ah! La Fin du Monde !:cheers:

Cheers!

Unibroue is enormous compared to my favorite little place!

They make a nice dark porter with just that little taste of coffee, not too much, just enough.
 

JetsFanForever

Registered User
May 7, 2012
154
0
I would never put faith in the quality of any potential owner. Bettman and Daly would not have let it get this far without being comfortable that this group could fund the operations for an extended period of time. Agreed there hasn't been an OFFICIAL approval but the BOG would not reject them at this point.

I am skeptical as well that's why I am very interested to see if Jamison can do it.

Has there been an official statement saying that Jamison has all of his financing figured out? I was under the impression that he still had some of this to work out, but I could never watch the entire presser from Monday (I could not load the video) so I might have missed something.

Also, it is in Bettman and Daly's best interest to let things get this far whether Jamison would be approved/finalize the deal or not. There are still tickets to sell for the next playoff round.
 

JetsFanForever

Registered User
May 7, 2012
154
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Why is that? Nobody does that. Already discussed.

Why is this a problem. If all that Phoenix needs is a new owner (which is what the coyotes fans have been saying for a long time) for the fans to show up in droves, then it shouldn't be a problem to have a ticket drive to prove this point. Right?
 

CoyotesJetsFan

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
111
0
Have you heard of Matt Hulsizer? He got a lot further than this, and it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt when he crapped out on St Louis that the guy didn't have the coin. I would sincerely hope the NHL would have figured this out if they were ever actually at the point of approving him for Phoenix or STL.

Have you heard of the Ice Edge Holdings clowns? They have less money than I do, but got much further than this as well. They had an approved MOU that the COG voted yes to.

Again, the shananigans of Monday should in no way be used as proof that this ownership group has money, will be approved, will be able to sustain losses, or will be able to get a lease done with Glendale that doesn't get smacked by Goldwater.

I've heard of all them. Thanks. I happen to believe that everyone involved learned their lessons last year and thats why things have been handled out of the spotlight. As it should be. We shall see.
 

CoyotesJetsFan

Registered User
Jul 10, 2007
111
0
Why is this a problem. If all that Phoenix needs is a new owner (which is what the coyotes fans have been saying for a long time) for the fans to show up in droves, then it shouldn't be a problem to have a ticket drive to prove this point. Right?


I would support that as a current STH. Put up or shut up IMO.
 
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