Phoenix CXXXVI - Coyotes up for sale again

[Grudy0]

And all this was going down around the time the NHL was accepting bids for expansion?

Move to Colorado, Arizona and Carolina in consecutive years then hit 3 straight years of expansion teams coming in.

No - but this is based on my memory:

Gary Bettman took over as NHL Commissioner on 1 February 1993. By that time, the NHL had 24 playing franchises and two more granted in December 1992. Also, the prior interim administration had "allowed" the move of the Stars to Dallas.

In 1994 the lockout happened. The attempt was to get a hard cap in order to have cost certainty. One of the reasons given by Mr. Bettman was that without cost certainty and a cap there will be teams moving. At the end of that lockout-shortened 1995 season the Nordiques were sold off to Comsat to play in the under construction Pepsi Center in Denver.

At the beginning of the 1995-96 season the Jets were sold to Burke and Gluckstern with the intent on moving the team. There was the ill-fated attempt to move the team to Minneapolis, then landing in Phoenix. I believe the bids for the next expansion started in summer 1996.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

KEEP IN MIND, as well.... whomever buys the Coyotes buys the 2 hockey franchises in Arizona, unless the Coyotes sell their affiliate club they bought 3 years ago +, one reason why the franchise will not be leaving Arizona

 

[JeffreyLFC]

actually, on a serious note, I wonder how hard the group from Quebec City would be pushing to make an offer, but I do imagine they'd have to do some serious lobbying with Bruins Owner, Habs Owners etc

I don't know.

It seems pretty clear that the NHL (mostly Jeremy Jacobs) are targeting large american market over any canadian market to grow the game. Quebec city seem like a last resort and by last resort I mean a franchise is bleeding money heavily with a owner in a hurry to sell and all available large US market (above 1+ million population) are not possible.
It's obvious the NHL are not favorable for any canadian market.
On a sidenote, I fully expect the NHL to relocate Ottawa to a US market within the next few years.

 

[MNNumbers]

I don't know.

It seems pretty clear that the NHL (mostly Jeremy Jacobs) are targeting large american market over any canadian market to grow the game. Quebec city seem like a last resort and by last resort I mean a franchise is bleeding money heavily with a owner in a hurry to sell and all available large US market (above 1+ million population) are not possible.
It's obvious the NHL are not favorable for any canadian market.
On a sidenote, I fully expect the NHL to relocate Ottawa to a US market within the next few years.

That's very interesting JeffreyLFC....
Have you read about the attempt to build a new complex in or near downtown Ottawa? The present owner is VERY involved. If he can't manage it, there is another group which wants to do the development, and put the team in an arena there.
It seems no relocation is going to be needed with that happening.
And, if the whole thing falls flat (which I highly doubt, because it's the federal Canadian gov't who wants the land developed), then it would seem Quebec City would be perfect.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

That's very interesting JeffreyLFC....
Have you read about the attempt to build a new complex in or near downtown Ottawa? The present owner is VERY involved. If he can't manage it, there is another group which wants to do the development, and put the team in an arena there.
It seems no relocation is going to be needed with that happening.
And, if the whole thing falls flat (which I highly doubt, because it's the federal Canadian gov't who wants the land developed), then it would seem Quebec City would be perfect.

I'm less hopeful than you are.

NHL has been promoting more teams in the US (LV now Seattle soon Houston) and have just constantly shut down all talk about Quebec with don't get your get your hope high. They even labelled Winnipeg relocation a "special" and "unique" situation.

They want the NHL to be like the NBA in the united states.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

On a sidenote, I fully expect the NHL to relocate Ottawa to a US market within the next few years.

I think that's the paranoid way to look at it. It may not seem like it to Canadian fans, but the NHL's antipathy towards relocation right now works heavily in Ottawa's favor. Relocation is a giant headache for the league, and they want to avoid it if at all possible. They'll exhaust every avenue to keep Ottawa where they are. But if they can't, Quebec City would be the first place they'd look for a landing spot, well before any US market - because the strongest non-expansion market for the NHL in the US right now, Houston, is the fallback for the Coyotes.

 

[Llama19]

Hmmm...seems like a great way to announce he is involved with a new ownership group...

 

[Cacciaguida]

Ottawa isn't moving. The NHL says so, the owner says so, Bettman says so.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

You should check out the main board thread about this. I think about half the thread is people saying things like "just move the ****ing team already."

And that's probably because a lot of fans are just frustrated with this matter. People want this to be permanently resolved one way or the other because it is, regardless of anything Bettman or Daly say about it, a black mark on this league financially. It's not a good look for the financial health of this league when you have a franchise like this operating with an unknown about what the hell their future will be from day to day.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

Hmmm...seems like a great way to announce he is involved with a new ownership group...

I'd agree. Any guess, Llama, if he's getting involved in it, how big a stake could he afford to involve himself with? Couldn't be that big, could it?

 

[cheswick]

I'd agree. Any guess, Llama, if he's getting involved in it, how big a stake could he afford to involve himself with? Couldn't be that big, could it?

Career earnings of $65mm (paper earnings, have to subtract escrow and taxes). Assuming he's been conservative with his spending and investing wisely (which would contradict any investment in this team), he's probably good for a season or two of losses.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Career earnings of $65mm (paper earnings, have to subtract escrow and taxes). Assuming he's been conservative with his spending and investing wisely (which would contradict any investment in this team), he's probably good for a season or two of losses.

We've been joking about Doan (and Paul Bissonnette) possibly being part of a potential new ownership group over on F40. Doubt it's true. Man, if it was though, that'd be pretty exciting for us here in AZ.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

We've been joking about Doan (and Paul Bissonnette) possibly being part of a potential new ownership group over on F40. Doubt it's true. Man, if it was though, that'd be pretty exciting for us here in AZ.

And if I was a Coyotes fan, I would, too, be excited.

 

[Mightygoose]

Doan would be at most a face of the new ownership being in front of the ones with the real money. Similar speculation on how Alfresdson being the face of potential new ownership/investors in Ottawa.

While thinking about Ottawa and tying this in plus bankingof Pagnota's article in the OP, it's been over 24 hours since it's been posted including the part...finalizing s deal with one of the interested parties....and no other media outlet has picked up on this.

Pagnota's piece about the Ottwa offer was all over the media (the evil Canadian media hasn't forgotten about AZ) including Daly validating and denying it at the same time.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Doan would be at most a face of the new ownership being in front of the ones with the real money. Similar speculation on how Alfresdson being the face of potential new ownership/investors in Ottawa.

You're right. But having Doan be the face of ownership would be a hell of a lot better than Weedboy or any of the other doofi who have sullied the desert landscape over the past decade plus.

 

[Melrose Munch]

my hope is that the phoenix arena comes together

 

[Melrose Munch]

I think that's the paranoid way to look at it. It may not seem like it to Canadian fans, but the NHL's antipathy towards relocation right now works heavily in Ottawa's favor. Relocation is a giant headache for the league, and they want to avoid it if at all possible. They'll exhaust every avenue to keep Ottawa where they are. But if they can't, Quebec City would be the first place they'd look for a landing spot, well before any US market - because the strongest non-expansion market for the NHL in the US right now, Houston, is the fallback for the Coyotes.

I'm not sure. Ottawa is youngest canadian team in a weak corporate market. Even Phoenix has more of a presence with a AA hub and godaddy.com Quebec will be expansion, those fans need a clean slate.

I don't know.

It seems pretty clear that the NHL (mostly Jeremy Jacobs) are targeting large american market over any canadian market to grow the game. Quebec city seem like a last resort and by last resort I mean a franchise is bleeding money heavily with a owner in a hurry to sell and all available large US market (above 1+ million population) are not possible.
It's obvious the NHL are not favorable for any canadian market.
On a sidenote, I fully expect the NHL to relocate Ottawa to a US market within the next few years.

I don't think they would say in public but if Atlanta or even KC opens up and Melnyk is still there... They havent even begun the formal process for lebreton flats I think.

 

[StreetHawk]

Career earnings of $65mm (paper earnings, have to subtract escrow and taxes). Assuming he's been conservative with his spending and investing wisely (which would contradict any investment in this team), he's probably good for a season or two of losses.

After taxes and escrow and let’s say solid investments he’s maybe worth between $40-$50 million give or take? NHL value of say $500 million and it’s unlikely Doan puts his entire life savings into the team, so if he buys in for 1% it costs $5 million. So any interest he buys will be very small. Half his net worth is say $25 million which nets out 5% of the team. Might not need all money but could be assuming debt.

So. At most he’s the face of the ownership group. Still the same issues remain.

They can’t get back into Scottsdale or Phoenix unless the NBA owner wants the to. Have under 4 years to change that stance.

 

[GuelphStormer]

my hope is that the phoenix arena comes together

do you honestly think that the arena was the problem? i've never thought that.

i believe every owner, since day one, has simply not had a clue how to market this product. and i cannot help but think the nhl has intentionally seen fit to put into place a long series of owners who have no clue. that's been the mystery to me ... why has the league doomed this franchise by allowing poor clown after poor clown to run the show.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

You're right. But having Doan be the face of ownership would be a hell of a lot better than Weedboy or any of the other doofi who have sullied the desert landscape over the past decade plus.

Agreed. Competent ownership would be a good start to fixing the mess down there, a mess which IIRC have said on these forums is beyond repair. But, you know, nothing ever seems beyond repair, now, doesn't it?

 

[tony d]

I feel bad for the Coyotes fans, I really do. They deserve better than the saga that has been their team off-ice for a # of yrs. now. Unfortunately I can't see it working long-term in Arizona. Got to think with Houston on the go they'll be the landing spot for the Coyotes.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Maybe this will finally be the stable ownership group we've needed since, well, ever since we've existed in Phoenix.

Who am I kidding though, we're the Coyotes. It will never happen.

The franchise is cursed. Never has had good ownership, even in WPG.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

As much as I love the return of Phoenix speculation, this isn't news, at least to any of the Megathread regulars.

The reason the megathread went on hold is because we were waiting on the details of how and what Barroway was going to sell, and they didn't appear to be coming anytime soon. Basically as soon as Barroway bought out the rest of IA, we have heard rumblings he's looking to sell a portion, with how much a secret to everyone.

It's been speculated, (and I believe it,) That Barroway went heavily in debt to facilitate this coyotes venture. (his nickname is Borroway here). We also don't know who Barroway owes money too.

Again, to go over old megathread material, My pet conspiracy theory is the NHL has guaranteed Barroway that he will not come out of this with negative money.

If you look up the old megathread, I put together a status report, which I think was pretty accurate. It basically boiled down to the Coyotes need to find one of:

A) A new owner willing to make a go of it in Glendale.

B) Someone willing to build a new arena, in a market that will be building a new NBA arena downtown in a few years.

C) Sarver to suffer brain damage and decide to take on the responsibility of the yotes.

Since none of those are good options, (IMO only A is remotely possible), which is why we've (Coyotes Management, The NHL, and BoH spectators) been in limbo for a while.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Anyways, like I said ^^^ That's ^^^ all old news.

What is most notable about this is the timing, of this release, and how it pertains to the coyotes lease at GRA with the CoG.

Basically my questions are:

who is talking, why are they talking, and [most importantly] why is this person talking now?

I'm rusty, so I can't remember when the lease automatic renewal come up?

 

[MNNumbers]

Anyways, like I said ^^^ That's ^^^ all old news.

What is most notable about this is the timing, of this release, and how it pertains to the coyotes lease at GRA with the CoG.

Basically my questions are:

who is talking, why are they talking, and [most importantly] why is this person talking now?

I'm rusty, so I can't remember when the lease automatic renewal come up?

Lease renewal works like this:
Auto renew on Dec 31 for the NEXT YEAR'S HOCKEY SEASON...

IOW: When last December's renewal went in place, it committed the team to play this year's entire season (including the portion in 2019) at GRA.

This strange setup, where the renewal is in the middle of the season, is the reason that I don't think that any real information can be gained from it. If the team is relocating out of market, then the present owners are going to renew anyway, because you can't have half a year be lame duck.

As to WHY NOW?
Well, the Phoenix people here all say that they know something is happening. Pagnotta is a solo operator. I can think of several reasons he would say something....
Bored
Wanting to drive traffic to his own website
Afraid that someone else will say something next week
etc