Phoenix CXXXVI - Coyotes up for sale again

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TheLegend

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Nobody is going to invest in this dumpster fire and keep the team in Arizona. Please stop saying the team cannot be moved. Houston and Quebec City are both solid options when the NHL doesn't have a choice to move the Coyotes.

Two groups have already. :sarcasm:

And he didn’t say the team couldn’t be moved. He’s been saying just not at this time. :rolleyes:

Sort of the hazards of very little news being interpreted by narratives.
 

Edgy

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Quebec, if still possible in theory, is on the wrong end of the continent.
Actually, Arizona is the one that's on wrong end of the continent as you have shown with the annual losses figures. Quebec would be on the right end of the continent as a team there won't be bleeding the city or its owners dry.
 

TheLegend

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@Glacial

“Big news”???? :biglaugh:

We’re no closer to a resolution to this than we were months ago when Ozanian blogged about Barroway looking for a minor investor ... which came months after Craig Morgan reported Barroway was looking for investors.

I would submit something has been moving along on this track but there’s still way to many unknowns to really know where this is at.
 
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TheLegend

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Actually, Arizona is the one that's on wrong end of the continent as you have shown with the annual losses figures. Quebec would be on the right end of the continent as a team there won't be bleeding the city or its owners dry.

Vegas says hello.

The city of Glendale isn’t bleeding anymore.

And the league disagrees with you about QC.
 

Dirty Old Man

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Vegas says hello.

And Anaheim, and Los Angeles, and San Jose, and soon to be Seattle as well.

Look, we all knew during the last two months that the first time someone posted anything regarding the Coyotes that was allowed to stand, the usual cast of hyenas would be out here in their legions baying for relocation. Fine, get it all out of your system now. Before this rumor dies down and you go back into hibernation.
 

MNNumbers

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Vegas says hello.

The city of Glendale isn’t bleeding anymore.

And the league disagrees with you about QC.

This is exactly my point.....

My initial interest was in the way in which the league was dealing with Glendale. The 25M insurance bordered on fraudulent. The 'negotiations' when IA was buying the franchise were horrible.

However, presently, Glendale has no complaints. I'm not sure how the arena is performing, but the operator is AEG, not the Yotes. So, that's on the up-and-up.

Losses are due to history, in my opinion. Nothing more can be said because we don't know what it would look like in a different world. But, losses are losses. The team stays until no one wants to own it under the NHL's terms, and, if the NHL is actually guaranteeing the owners not lose their shirts, until the NHL itself has had enough. All of that is a private loss situation. No taxpayer is being extorted for money. If people and the NHL want to lose money, that's on them.

I think the situation would be better in QC, but the league doesn't want to go there. I could scream and call them fools, and they are, but they don't want to go there.

That's simply the truth.
 
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MNNumbers

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What makes you think there is another serious investor willing to keep the team in Arizona and bleed millions every year?

Um....That's today's news, man.

Now, if you are here actually arguing....."There is no serious investor. The NHL is fronting everything....." that's your opinion. You are entitled to it.

But, if that is the case, then the league is losing $$ on this deal. That's their right, too. It's their puck, not ours. And, if that's the case, then you wait until the league gets tired of fronting the losses.

Same difference.

Slashers, really, I think there should be a team in QC. But, my idea and my thought isn't important. Neither is "what's fair". You know that. The league doesn't hate Quebec City. The league just doesn't see any league wide benefit to being there. So, they won't be there until there is no other way.
 

Edgy

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Vegas says hello.

The city of Glendale isn’t bleeding anymore.

And the league disagrees with you about QC.
Vegas is a success from year 1. Arizona has been a hemorrhaging money for how long now? Say hello back.
It doesn't matter who's still bleeding and who isn't, the point is the team is losing money. It's not a profitable franchise, it's not feasible to keep it there under the current circumstances.

Will a new arena and new ownership solve that problem? Don't know for sure, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to take that risk if they're not allowed to relocate if they don't start turning a profit. This is a business venture after all and at the end of the day it all comes down to PNLs.
 

Glacial

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@Glacial

“Big news”???? :biglaugh:

We’re no closer to a resolution to this than we were months ago when Ozanian blogged about Barroway looking for a minor investor ... which came months after Craig Morgan reported Barroway was looking for investors.

I would submit something has been moving along on this track but there’s still way to many unknowns to really know where this is at.

True. I guess I should have characterized it as the next big event in the Coyotes Saga (of course, logically, a change in ownership was the most likely next event of note to occur. It was that, followed by a new arena site a distant 2nd, with relocation by the NHL by their own initiative a mile or so away from that, and contraction an infintesimal above never). The shift is now from seeking a minority investor to seeking to sell enough of a stake to get reduced to a minority investor. It's the first big news on this front in a while. As you note, something's moving on the track, I would say there are things jostling around in the box (although how the NHL has overseen the team, it hasn't been completely assembled, leading to the awkward unstable yet stable configuration it's held for about a decade). Eventually, as the box gets shook up enough, some part's gonna stick through or fall out and reveal what was going on in the box.
 
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The Feckless Puck

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It doesn't matter who's still bleeding and who isn't, the point is the team is losing money. It's not a profitable franchise, it's not feasible to keep it there under the current circumstances.

So the news today is that the current circumstances may change, and may change soon. So shouldn't we be discussing that rather than the same tired old schadenfreude and BS about market viability?
 

Edgy

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So the news today is that the current circumstances may change, and may change soon. So shouldn't we be discussing that rather than the same tired old schadenfreude and BS about market viability?
Sure.

Do you think their issues are solely the arena location? I mean take Ottawa or the Islanders (old arena) for example. They had some of the worst locations but still managed to sell tickets and turn a profit, they had crummy management and people still showed up to the games. Look at the Habs, we've had mediocre management forever and a day and until recently, they've been selling out every night. Toronto, Edmonton, etc.. all bad team for long stretches of time, still never lost money like Arizona.

Are there hockey fans in Arizona, sure. The question is, are there enough to sustain a profitable franchise? Will a new arena/better ownership be able to get more people to buy tickets and attend games? Based on what I said above, I doubt that but for the sake of the current passionate fans in Arizona, I hope I'm wrong.
 

Grudy0

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The shift is now from seeking a minority investor to seeking to sell enough of a stake to get reduced to a minority investor. It's the first big news on this front in a while.
No, the last credible information was that Barroway was looking for a minority investor, and this "new news" doesn't manage to discern between having a minority investor or taking over as majority or full investor.

This is a nothingburger of news.
 

StreetHawk

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Vegas is a success from year 1. Arizona has been a hemorrhaging money for how long now? Say hello back.
It doesn't matter who's still bleeding and who isn't, the point is the team is losing money. It's not a profitable franchise, it's not feasible to keep it there under the current circumstances.

Will a new arena and new ownership solve that problem? Don't know for sure, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to take that risk if they're not allowed to relocate if they don't start turning a profit. This is a business venture after all and at the end of the day it all comes down to PNLs.
I highly doubt the coyotes are able to get an arena in Phoenix/Scottsdale to play in. NBA owner has zero interest in sharing thus shuts down a return to the area for the coyotes. I can’t see it being economically viable to have 2 indoor arenas in the area one for each team.

Either they make Glendale work or they have to move.

Things just never aligned for it to work there. TSRA opens up in 1992 and is only meant for the nba. Now when their basketball temants lease has an out clause after 30 years the basketball team doesn’t want to share an arena.
 

Glacial

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So the news today is that the current circumstances may change, and may change soon. So shouldn't we be discussing that rather than the same tired old schadenfreude and BS about market viability?

I hear the dead horse is quite tender this time of year. :deadhorse
 
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Wolf357

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I give Coyotee fans in Arizona a freakin standing ovation. As much bashing they get I cannot fathom any other fanbase enduring what they have gone through both on the ice and the constant ownership/arena/re-location Gong Show.
The fact that they get what they get as far as attendance astounds me..
 

PCSPounder

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Just a reminder that the thing that has recently changed in the "far-reaching-depths" of any possible Coyotes-moving-out-of-town ownership picture is Paul Allen's passing.

Not that this guarantees Portland will have a viable NHL buyer, just that the odds increased from about 1% to, oh, 3%... aka "enough to put upward pressure on someone else's sale price."
 

StreetHawk

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ugh, i think i'm beginning to understand why this never-ending discussion is annoying for coyotes fans.
It is annoying for all NHL fans.

But the NHL only has itself to blame.
Left Winnipeg only to go to a city that didn’t have an NHL arena which was just 4 years old at the time.

Logic would dictate that you’re highly unlikely to convince the government to pay for another arena so soon.

Glendale has been a mess.

Now with the Suns lease due up soon, and the city having to negotiate with them the suns don’t want to share an arena thus keeping the coyotes out of their desired location.

Unless something changes with the Suns I don’t see the coyotes getting back to downtown Phoenix.

Hopefully there will be a final resolution soon. I don’t care whether they either make it work in Glendale or leave because they can’t get into downtown Phoenix.

This has simply dragged on for far too long.
 

TheLegend

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Vegas is a success from year 1. Arizona has been a hemorrhaging money for how long now? Say hello back.
It doesn't matter who's still bleeding and who isn't, the point is the team is losing money. It's not a profitable franchise, it's not feasible to keep it there under the current circumstances.

Will a new arena and new ownership solve that problem? Don't know for sure, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to take that risk if they're not allowed to relocate if they don't start turning a profit. This is a business venture after all and at the end of the day it all comes down to PNLs.

I’m sorry....

Your post was expresslywas in the wrong part of the country. Vegas and Phoenix are both desert towns and Phoenix has

To address your comment about hemorrhaging money I would like to remind you about how the franchise was dropped on Arizona in the first place. It was originally intended for Minnesota but ended up here because there was no other place for them to go. Not Houston..... not Seattle..... not Hamilton..... zip.

There was literally zero prep time given for a franchise to be dropped into an unknown market and it was done so with a horrid lease agreement and it’s been a circus of instability since.

It was a classic case of what not to do...... regardless of the market.

Vegas spent over two years prepping.... Seattle will spend the same. Phoenix has like five months.
 

StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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I’m sorry....

Your post was expresslywas in the wrong part of the country. Vegas and Phoenix are both desert towns and Phoenix has

To address your comment about hemorrhaging money I would like to remind you about how the franchise was dropped on Arizona in the first place. It was originally intended for Minnesota but ended up here because there was no other place for them to go. Not Houston..... not Seattle..... not Hamilton..... zip.

There was literally zero prep time given for a franchise to be dropped into an unknown market and it was done so with a horrid lease agreement and it’s been a circus of instability since.

It was a classic case of what not to do...... regardless of the market.

Vegas spent over two years prepping.... Seattle will spend the same. Phoenix has like five months.
The only legit option was Portland where the Moda Center opened in 1995, but I don’t recall if Paul Allen had any interest at the time. Since his passing I’ve heard that he used to fly down to Portland to watch his blazers play the fly back the same evening. If he didn’t have that same passion for hockey then it’s probably best that he didn’t own the a team.

Arizona comes down to the arena. 1992 is when the TSRA opened. So how did the NHL ever figure that they would get a new one that could accommodate hockey anytime in the next 2 decades in that area?

Then the Glendale option opened up for the owners at the time and they took it. Be like Vancouver moving the team to Surrey or Langley. It’s growing yes, but the corporate support is still in the main city.
 

Edgy

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Nov 30, 2009
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I’m sorry....

Your post was expresslywas in the wrong part of the country. Vegas and Phoenix are both desert towns and Phoenix has

To address your comment about hemorrhaging money I would like to remind you about how the franchise was dropped on Arizona in the first place. It was originally intended for Minnesota but ended up here because there was no other place for them to go. Not Houston..... not Seattle..... not Hamilton..... zip.

There was literally zero prep time given for a franchise to be dropped into an unknown market and it was done so with a horrid lease agreement and it’s been a circus of instability since.

It was a classic case of what not to do...... regardless of the market.

Vegas spent over two years prepping.... Seattle will spend the same. Phoenix has like five months.
My reply was to a comment saying Quebec is in the wrong part of the country, Quebec has been trying to get a team back for years and the NHL kept refusing to even entertain the idea.

Arizona's ownership and the NHL failed the fans by putting a team there under such circumstances, and now the NHL stubbornly refusing to relocate the team is stupid, if you don't have time to prepare properly why not let the team move and bring one back when Arizona has a new arena and had time to prepare, make them the expansion team that you insist on making Quebec or Houston?
 
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