Phoenix CXXXIV: 3 Sheets To The Wind

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snovalleyhockeyfan

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May 22, 2008
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If Barroway really thinks he can get $500 million for just 49% of that, he is dreaming, especially if a prospective purchaser is going to assume that portion of the outstanding debt. Might be best perhaps to declare chapter 7 bankruptcy on this and dissolve it?
 

The Feckless Puck

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Barroway's not going to get a $500M valuation for a minority share - not unless he's including codicils to allow the purchaser to take over majority or even total control within a relatively short time frame.
 
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Llama19

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If Barroway really thinks he can get $500 million for just 49% of that, he is dreaming, especially if a prospective purchaser is going to assume that portion of the outstanding debt. Might be best perhaps to declare chapter 7 bankruptcy on this and dissolve it?

Dreaming? More like delusional... :nod:

I do not think the NHL will let another bankruptcy happen...but I do see a planned 'sale' happening behind the scenes before it reaches that point...
 
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Mightygoose

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The 49% is not surprising. It represents the stake IA held. He's been looking to off load this for 17 months now.

The 500 million valuation is new not too surprising. Question being, is that valuation to reach a want or need for Mr. Barroway.

Going to be tough for someone to agree to that plus invest money for a new arena.

In guaging for progress on either front, the next BoG meeting is about 2 months away, a decision on letting the auto renewal kick in is in about 5.
 
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CBJ goalie

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If Barroway really thinks he can get $500 million for just 49% of that, he is dreaming, especially if a prospective purchaser is going to assume that portion of the outstanding debt. Might be best perhaps to declare chapter 7 bankruptcy on this and dissolve it?

I think you mis-interpreted - it says he's seeking to sell 49% of the team, with a valuation of $500M....so Barroway wants $245M.
Which should probably cover what he has in the team.....and then someone else is left with majority ownership, and all of the debt.
 

Llama19

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The 49% is not surprising. It represents the stake IA held. He's been looking to off load this for 17 months now.

The 500 million valuation is new not too surprising. Question being, is that valuation to reach a want or need for Mr. Barroway.

Going to be tough for someone to agree to that plus invest money for a new arena.

In guaging for progress on either front, the next BoG meeting is about 2 months away, a decision on letting the auto renewal kick in is in about 5.

Maybe with LeBlanc's new connections in the cannabis world...
he should be flush with money by now... ;)

Could the band get back together, again? :sarcasm:
 
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BigBadBread

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I think you mis-interpreted - it says he's seeking to sell 49% of the team, with a valuation of $500M....so Barroway wants $245M.
Which should probably cover what he has in the team.....and then someone else is left with majority ownership, and all of the debt.

That was my interpretation as well. 49% of $500 Million. Which leads to speculation about why you would seek to sell 49% when Barroway himself made it public how important it was to buy out the IA shares when he did and have everything more consolidated under him.
 

Bookie21

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No real breaking news here. Since Barroway bought out the clowns, he always stated that he was looking for a minority investment. Because he values it at $500 million doesn't mean a thing, as that is a long shot at best. He's probably gaging valuations on Vegas paying$500 million and Seattle $650 million, doesn't mean he'll get that
 

The Feckless Puck

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Which leads to speculation about why you would seek to sell 49% when Barroway himself made it public how important it was to buy out the IA shares when he did and have everything more consolidated under him.

I think that's a pretty easy answer, assuming Barroway isn't doing a buy-and-flip (and I know several folks around here believe that's exactly what's happening). Barroway and the IceDoofii had what is generously called a "difference of philosophy," and buying them out was the one sure way to eliminate their influence completely. Cortez wrecking his ships on the beach, in other words. Selling a 49% stake to someone who aligns with his thinking would make sense both for his ownership and his pocketbook.
 

cbcwpg

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No real breaking news here. Since Barroway bought out the clowns, he always stated that he was looking for a minority investment. Because he values it at $500 million doesn't mean a thing, as that is a long shot at best. He's probably gaging valuations on Vegas paying$500 million and Seattle $650 million, doesn't mean he'll get that

The one and only reason that Barroway is putting a $500MM price tag on the Coyotes is because of Vegas. That's it. Someone elsewhere paid that for team A so by NHL logic, team B must be worth the same. :shakehead

"Sources tell me that the $500 million valuation figure includes working capital to cover current losses as well as capital calls (money investors put into the team in subsequent years to cover operating losses). So if this deal gets announced as $500 million, be very skeptical. "

In what universe are the Coyotes worth $500 large? A universe in which they don't play in the state of Arizona. Oh... we are skeptical.
 
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cbcwpg

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I think that's a pretty easy answer, assuming Barroway isn't doing a buy-and-flip (and I know several folks around here believe that's exactly what's happening). Barroway and the IceDoofii had what is generously called a "difference of philosophy," and buying them out was the one sure way to eliminate their influence completely. Cortez wrecking his ships on the beach, in other words. Selling a 49% stake to someone who aligns with his thinking would make sense both for his ownership and his pocketbook.

According to Forbes, Barroway is really looking for someone to cover current losses as well as capital calls (money investors put into the team in subsequent years to cover operating losses). So, even if you could find someone who's philosophy of ownership aligns with Barroway, to put that much money into this franchise , money that will mostly be used to just pay the freight...you gotta really ask yourself, what's in it for me.
 

The Feckless Puck

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According to Forbes, Barroway is really looking for someone to cover current losses as well as capital calls (money investors put into the team in subsequent years to cover operating losses). So, even if you could find someone who's philosophy of ownership aligns with Barroway, to put that much money into this franchise , money that will mostly be used to just pay the freight...you gotta really ask yourself, what's in it for me.

Exactly. Which means that there is some incentive built into Barroway's ask. What that incentive is, we don't know yet (although my pal Llama will no doubt winkily hypothesize about it - and who knows, maybe this time he'll be right).

Incentive or not, though, that's a hell of an outsized valuation and the odds of him finding someone to take the bait are extremely low, IMO.
 
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Bookie21

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Incentive or not, though, that's a hell of an outsized valuation and the odds of him finding someone to take the bait are extremely low, IMO.

While I agree with the bolded, I also thought the same of the Carolina Hurricanes and Karamanos' fantasy asking price.....well guess what? He got $540 million valuation. (Lease, playing into part of that). There might just be a sucker out there willing to pony up what Barroway wants
 

snovalleyhockeyfan

I'm just the messenger.....
May 22, 2008
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North Bend, WA
I think you mis-interpreted - it says he's seeking to sell 49% of the team, with a valuation of $500M....so Barroway wants $245M.
Which should probably cover what he has in the team.....and then someone else is left with majority ownership, and all of the debt.

Even that is probably asking a bit much. Perhaps a better amount would be .... oh, a dollar and not having to assume ANY of the debt.
 

GodPucker

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Sep 27, 2017
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LOL @ 500 Million

For the love of god, move this clown show to a viable market already. It will help the health of the entire NHL.
 

Mightygoose

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While I agree with the bolded, I also thought the same of the Carolina Hurricanes and Karamanos' fantasy asking price.....well guess what? He got $540 million valuation. (Lease, playing into part of that). There might just be a sucker out there willing to pony up what Barroway wants

The lease was the big part of the Canes sale. The other part was PK willing to let go of control. Both of these are different though with the later, Barroway may have much of a choice.

The Canes sale took about 3 years, though it was under a year after PK became open to selling the control too. Barroway has been looking for investors for a year and a half so far.

Does Barroway have that kind of time?...time will tell
 
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Tom ServoMST3K

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Nov 2, 2010
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I'm back bitches! The 500 mill evaluation brought me back here. I've been so depressed since Jets were knocked out.

Catching up on megathread, examining council statements, good times. brings me back.

This 500 mill evaluation goal can tell us a lot about how leveraged Barroway is right now. (HINT: Very) We all knew this, but it's nice to have confirmation.

The interesting thing this brings up in my head is that this is out in the open.

Barroway's been (IMO rightly so) really cloak and dagger since buying out IA, and I've approved of that. A nice change of pace. I wonder if he's at his breaking point soon. He never seemed at the right wealth level to be a full or even majority NHL owner.

On to longer term queries:

The question I've always had in my head (since the IA/Glendale lease was broken) is "How leveraged is the NHL in this mess?"

Still don't see a viable arena situation that isn't Glendale, and the NHL says that can't work.
 

Glacial

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Andrew Barroway Seeking $500 Million Valuation For Arizona Coyotes

To quote:

"Andrew Barroway, the owner of the Arizona Coyotes, is looking to sell 49% of the National Hockey League team at a $500 million valuation, according to multiple sources.

The fact that Barroway is now seeking cash for his team is not surprising. When he bought out his partners I wrote: “Barroway’s buyout of his partners is the riskiest deal I can recall in recent memory. ... Barroway and the Coyotes are now leveraged to the hilt. As of now, the Coyotes have $250 million of debt. There is $100 million of NHL credit facility debt and two loans from MGG Investment Group; one for $100 million with about a 10% interest rate and a payment-in-kind loan for $50 million that would be redeemed in six years for $100 million.”"

Source: www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2018/07/17/andrew-barroway-seeking-500-million-valuation-for-arizona-coyotes/#7c5fc7003fb7

Paging MNNumbers... Looks like some numbers to compare to your estimates.

Is that 49% stake being sold at 49% of $500M, or is that 49% stake being sold at $500M? There's been sheer lunacy surrounding this saga making it hard to tell if key players were only slightly crazy ($245M for less than half the team) or full-on crazy ($1.025B evaluation for whole team).

Leveraged to the hilt? Barroway's takeover made them seem leveraged to the tip of a fancy tassle dangling from the end of the hilt. :laugh:

I'm not surprised too much by the timing. Barroway had all the appearances of a quick flipper.

So, questions are:
- Does anyone actually buy-in at this price and become the next turn in the revolving door of owners?

- What happens if potential buyers call Barroway's bluff and he's left holding the bag? Does the NHL have to swoop in to avoid bankruptcy court 2: lost world electric boogaloo attack of the reruns or do they quickly line up a potemkin buyer to 'sell' the franchise to, avoid the courts and keep the illusion of ownership?
 
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Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
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What's your excuse?
Paging MNNumbers... Looks like some numbers to compare to your estimates.

Is that 49% stake being sold at 49% of $500M, or is that 49% stake being sold at $500M? There's been sheer lunacy surrounding this saga making it hard to tell if key players were only slightly crazy ($245M for less than half the team) or full-on crazy ($1.025B evaluation for whole team).

Leveraged to the hilt? Barroway's takeover made them seem leveraged to the tip of a fancy tassle dangling from the end of the hilt. :laugh:

I'm not surprised too much by the timing. Barroway had all the appearances of a quick flipper.

So, questions are:
- Does anyone actually buy-in at this price and become the next turn in the revolving door of owners?

- What happens if potential buyers call Barroway's bluff and he's left holding the bag? Does the NHL have to swoop in to avoid bankruptcy court 2: lost world electric boogaloo attack of the reruns or do they quickly line up a potemkin buyer to 'sell' the franchise to, avoid the courts and keep the illusion of ownership?

If someone was willing and able to drop 245 million in cash on this team, they would have bought the whole thing a few years ago IMO.

That's probably more than Barroway's initial investment to become majority owner to IA.

Gary's getting out the rolodex.
 

cbcwpg

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Exactly. Which means that there is some incentive built into Barroway's ask. What that incentive is, we don't know yet (although my pal Llama will no doubt winkily hypothesize about it - and who knows, maybe this time he'll be right).

Incentive or not, though, that's a hell of an outsized valuation and the odds of him finding someone to take the bait are extremely low, IMO.

Andrew Barroway Seeking $500 Million Valuation For Arizona Coyotes

One source believes the deal as being presented would give the new investor a path towards control, if not immediate control.

***
Well that could be your incentive. Come in at 49% and one day, you too can be the lucky full owner of the Coyotes.

If this is true, then Barroway is just looking to get out with some semblance of the shirt he came in with.
 

Detelethisaccount

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Jul 5, 2013
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According to Forbes, Barroway is really looking for someone to cover current losses as well as capital calls (money investors put into the team in subsequent years to cover operating losses). So, even if you could find someone who's philosophy of ownership aligns with Barroway, to put that much money into this franchise , money that will mostly be used to just pay the freight...you gotta really ask yourself, what's in it for me.

Well if that investor is answering the cash calls and Barroway cannot, then there would most assuredly be language in the partnership agreement transferring a portion of Barroway's stake to the new investor for every call Barroway misses. That would be the incentive for the new investor, you could possibly get an NHL franchise for less than $500M. Between getting the rest of Barroway's stake for for less than the current valuation and one of the biggest creditors also being the NHL, I am sure something could be "worked out" between the BOG, Barroway and the new investor to make sure everyone is made whole in the end. Could even let Barroway retain a small portion (5%) just to save face.
 

Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
27,751
18,484
What's your excuse?
Andrew Barroway Seeking $500 Million Valuation For Arizona Coyotes

One source believes the deal as being presented would give the new investor a path towards control, if not immediate control.

***
Well that could be your incentive. Come in at 49% and one day, you too can be the lucky full owner of the Coyotes.

If this is true, then Barroway is just looking to get out with some semblance of the shirt he came in with.

The tinfoil hat in me says that Barroway has always been looking to get out, and the NHL guaranteed he would with no losses.

I don't believe it's true, but I don't think it's as far-fetched as I initially thought.
 
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