Phoenix CXXX: Sock it to ME

[Killion]

And yes there are some massive upgrades to go along with it.

Little wonder the City of Phoenix is refusing to comply with FOIA Requests & those who have declared themselves in the race to replace Stanton as Mayor have come out & said they wont support such an expenditure. Those details need to be released to the public as on the surface it's just.... staggering. I just dont get it unless theres something structurally wrong with the building that absolutely requires extensive & expensive work (like maybe flaws discovered in the steel of the buildings main beams or settling has occurred requiring major heavy duty stabilization & concrete work etc) & remediation.

But no, somethings rotten in Denmark here with this one & it absolutely does affect the Coyotes whether the City of Phoenix forges ahead with this plan or decides not to, leaving Sarver to "have conversations" with whomever.... and if he leaves TSRA & somehow someway the Coyotes can hang in there TSRA could become an option as you could conceivably & creatively renovate it to be a lot more hockey friendly. Seating max might be around 15K-16K but thats fine. Depends on how much you want to spend to make it hockey friendly but lets say $250M, you could do quite the job of it. Center the clock, replace & re-configure seating etc etc etc. Not perfect but close to it & unique. Comfortable. Cosy.

Or.... maybe Sarver does sell.... new ownership as in the situation with Houston interested in the NHL as well... could speculate, present various scenarios until the cows come home but lets see where this goes. Bears watching.

 

[cbcwpg]

Oh yeah, serious implications either way.... and that number, $450M ~ $500M is pretty darn shocking is it not? I mean My God. TSRA isnt even 30yrs old for one thing, and for another, I mean, what could they possibly be doing that would require that amount of money? Thats the price & then some of a brand new building. How is it that OVG in Seattle can essentially totally gut Key Arena, drop the floor by 15', sink new foundations & a floor, new everything with only the roofline being retained & they can do all that for around $600M.... and in an earthquake zone... What kind of reno's to TSRA could possibly cost a half a billion dollars? Mindblowing!. No way. Not unless their dropping the floor, complete gut job making it NHL friendly & if they were we'd know about it. No way you could keep that secret.

I think people like pulling big round numbers out of their butts because it sounds good. Kindo like the franchise values that the NHL thinks all their teams are worth.

JMO, but you can build an arena that is more than capable of hosting NHL for ~$250MM. Everything above that are just extras to distract people when the product on the ice sucks.

 

[TheLegend]

I think people like pulling big round numbers out of their butts because it sounds good. Kindo like the franchise values that the NHL thinks all their teams are worth.

JMO, but you can build an arena that is more than capable of hosting NHL for ~$250MM. Everything above that are just extras to distract people when the product on the ice sucks.

Certainly can agree with that. The other line of thought here is they’re purposely inflating the remodel estimate in order to justify replacing it with a newer building. Citing that if it costs just as much why not build new??

 

[Killion]

^^^ Indeed. I mean, not 6mnths ago IA was talking about a new arena in the 15.5-16.5K range of capacity, cost of app $350M if I'm not mistaken and yes, even that's a tad high. Absolutely no question whatsoever you could build a perfectly satisfactory 15K+++ arena with all the amenities & state of the art infrastructure for $225M-$300M- and Hell, you could do it for less than $200M if you got creative with suppliers, design, materials etc. So just how it is that a reno to TSRA is being ballparked at $450M..... I mean, unless Sarvers channeled Mad King Ludwig II of Bavaria, creator of the Fairytale Neuschwanstein Castle along with other completely over the top palaces & country estates that ultimately bankrupted a nation & brainwashed, hypontized or put a spell on Stanton & the City of Phoenix Council then I dont know what, how to explain it, unless..... major structural flaws that need fixing & if thats the case youd best be blowing it up & building anew.

 

[Llama19]

^^^ Indeed. I mean, not 6mnths ago IA was talking about a new arena in the 15.5-16.5K range of capacity, cost of app $350M if I'm not mistaken and yes, even that's a tad high. Absolutely no question whatsoever you could build a perfectly satisfactory 15K+++ arena with all the amenities & state of the art infrastructure for $225M-$300M- and Hell, you could do it for less than $200M if you got creative with suppliers, design, materials etc. So just how it is that a reno to TSRA is being ballparked at $450M..... I mean, unless Sarvers channeled Mad King Ludwig II of Bavaria, creator of the Fairytale Neuschwanstein Castle along with other completely over the top palaces & country estates that ultimately bankrupted a nation & brainwashed, hypontized or put a spell on Stanton & the City of Phoenix Council then I dont know what, how to explain it, unless..... major structural flaws that need fixing & if thats the case youd best be blowing it up & building anew.

Sounds like Sarver wants a Key Arena renovation...so...does that mean they will play their games in Glendale while this is going on?

 

[Killion]

Sounds like Sarver wants a Key Arena renovation...so...does that mean they will play their games in Glendale while this is going on?

Would seem the most logical & viable option, Suns along with the Rattlers & Mercury playing out of GRA. He's gonna lose it by the truckload for the 12-24mnths he's out of TSRA & he damn well knows it. So he's out the app $250M he's promised to pay as his contribution to nearly $500M in reno's; he's going to lose naming rights & other sponsorship revenues while TSRA is being updated... he's going to have to spend a huge chunk of change on dressing rooms etc at GRA.... no concert & event revenues, no parking revenues, no concessions... paying rent to the COG.....

Now, we know Sarvers not a SuperWealthy MegaRich NBA Owner, penurious in fact with what little he does have so does this really sound like a plan that he'd be relishing?.... I think not.... I think this is a total setup with the cost of a new building renovations ploy. He wants to stay put at TSRA while a new buildings going up & forget taking a major major haircut that he cant afford out in Glendale... Does this hidden agenda, a new arena altogether include the Coyotes? Im highly skeptical but strange things seem to happen in Arizona so we'll see. I wouldnt write it off completely as "never going to happen".... and thats a BIG "if"..... the most pressing & immediate question right now is can the team even make payroll through to the end of this season, and whether or not they'll even be in Arizona for the 2018/19 season let alone in 5-7yrs hence.

 

[aqib]

Would seem the most logical & viable option, Suns along with the Rattlers & Mercury playing out of GRA. He's gonna lose it by the truckload for the 12-24mnths he's out of TSRA & he damn well knows it. So he's out the app $250M he's promised to pay as his contribution to nearly $500M in reno's; he's going to lose naming rights & other sponsorship revenues while TSRA is being updated... he's going to have to spend a huge chunk of change on dressing rooms etc at GRA.... no concert & event revenues, no parking revenues, no concessions... paying rent to the COG.....

Why would he lose money by the truckload if he has to be in Glendale for a year or 2? NBA teams aren't as gate-driven as NHL teams are. Seattle, Golden State, and the Nets have done temporary stays and it wasn't a problem.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Would seem the most logical & viable option, Suns along with the Rattlers & Mercury playing out of GRA. He's gonna lose it by the truckload for the 12-24mnths he's out of TSRA & he damn well knows it. So he's out the app $250M he's promised to pay as his contribution to nearly $500M in reno's; he's going to lose naming rights & other sponsorship revenues while TSRA is being updated... he's going to have to spend a huge chunk of change on dressing rooms etc at GRA.... no concert & event revenues, no parking revenues, no concessions... paying rent to the COG.....

Now, we know Sarvers not a SuperWealthy MegaRich NBA Owner, penurious in fact with what little he does have so does this really sound like a plan that he'd be relishing?.... I think not.... I think this is a total setup with the cost of a new building renovations ploy. He wants to stay put at TSRA while a new buildings going up & forget taking a major major haircut that he cant afford out in Glendale... Does this hidden agenda, a new arena altogether include the Coyotes? Im highly skeptical but strange things seem to happen in Arizona so we'll see. I wouldnt write it off completely as "never going to happen".... and thats a BIG "if"..... the most pressing & immediate question right now is can the team even make payroll through to the end of this season, and whether or not they'll even be in Arizona for the 2018/19 season let alone in 5-7yrs hence.

I don't know if the Mercury are owned by the Suns, K, YOU May have another scenario there where someone else actually owns the franchise, now if you're talking Northern Arizona, that plays over in Prescott Valley, you might get some sympathy. think Seattle prior to the Bennett fiasco, where the Storm actually were sold prior to the Sonics exit to OKC.

 

[TheLegend]

I don't know if the Mercury are owned by the Suns, K, YOU May have another scenario there where someone else actually owns the franchise, now if you're talking Northern Arizona, that plays over in Prescott Valley, you might get some sympathy. think Seattle prior to the Bennett fiasco, where the Storm actually were sold prior to the Sonics exit to OKC.

Mercury are owned by the Suns.

 

[mesamonster]

Sorry to bring up this subject on the BOH, however the Coyotes recent 4-1 loss to WPG should be cause for concern. The idea of promoting an inferior product in the name of a rebuild has now gone well beyond that hope. This is now a business liability for Barroway and one that needs to be acknowledged, they have deliberately under spent and are now paying the price. Say what you want, only the naive will give this regime any leeway with regard to their decisions regarding their on ice product. This is a franchise on life support with no way out, the sooner they acknowledge their ineptitude the easier it will be for the fans to forgive such malfeasance. Be honest, admit to the public that you are cash strapped but need their unwavering support if they have any hope of surviving this obviously challenging period of time. If they have any hope of remaining viable they need to begin a massive fan appreciation period in which they promote second chances and recognize their foibles. This franchise is now at its lowest point ever, leader less and with little hope of revival.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Sorry to bring up this subject on the BOH

See, now you and all these people on here that believe the Coyotes management and NHL are liars... and you come on here saying you're sorry to bring this up. Difficult to believe based on prior patterns. Another example of the signal to noise ratio dropping.

 

[mesamonster]

See, now you and all these people on here that believe the Coyotes management and NHL are liars... and you come on here saying you're sorry to bring this up. Difficult to believe based on prior patterns. Another example of the signal to noise ratio dropping.

Please DOM, you have to admit this is a case of complete and utter mismanagement, all in the name of attempting to save money. This group has known all along that they are icing a minor league team with the hope of selling it at major league prices. This is beyond embarrassing and an outcome that was predicted by many on this thread. It was only a matter of time before their fiscal chastity caught with their intrepid owner AB. He is presiding over the leagues largest embarrassment, to say otherwise is beyond being objective.

 

[mesamonster]

I was at the game tonight, a pretty sad deal! Walk around the concourses and what you saw was complete resignation that time is not this teams side.

 

[TheLegend]

Sorry to bring up this subject on the BOH, however the Coyotes recent 4-1 loss to WPG should be cause for concern. The idea of promoting an inferior product in the name of a rebuild has now gone well beyond that hope. This is now a business liability for Barroway and one that needs to be acknowledged, they have deliberately under spent and are now paying the price. Say what you want, only the naive will give this regime any leeway with regard to their decisions regarding their on ice product. This is a franchise on life support with no way out, the sooner they acknowledge their ineptitude the easier it will be for the fans to forgive such malfeasance. Be honest, admit to the public that you are cash strapped but need their unwavering support if they have any hope of surviving this obviously challenging period of time. If they have any hope of remaining viable they need to begin a massive fan appreciation period in which they promote second chances and recognize their foibles. This franchise is now at its lowest point ever, leader less and with little hope of revival.

See, now you and all these people on here that believe the Coyotes management and NHL are liars... and you come on here saying you're sorry to bring this up. Difficult to believe based on prior patterns. Another example of the signal to noise ratio dropping.

More than anything..... it's a continued case of spewing doom and gloom over and over hoping enough people buy into it. BoH just happens to be a target rich environment.

Microsoft used the tactic for years to protect themselves from any potential threat. They didn't have to actually develop something. All they needed to do is drop a a barrage of hints that they were about the release something on the coattails of the competition that "might" make it incompatible with their operating system and it put enough panic in the market to kill competitive sales.

The tactic was called "fear, uncertainty and doubt"..... or "FUD" (pronounced as "food"). And it worked for years.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Please DOM, you have to admit this is a case of complete and utter mismanagement, all in the name of attempting to save money.

Actually, I kinda don't.....

. He is presiding over the leagues largest embarrassment, to say otherwise is beyond being objective.

Well you've certainly convinced yourself...and to quote Inigo Montoya, I don't think that word means what you think it does. Because yours is a very subjective statement, which is the opposite of the bolded.

My point was you saying you're sorry, when you clearly are not. You seem quite happy to keep saying these things here. Your biggest fear may be, that if enough time passes, and they're allowed to stay, that AB and the NHL might someday be seen as successful... and that would just really grind your gears, wouldn't it?

 

[Killion]

Actually, I kinda don't.....

Your biggest fear may be, that if enough time passes, and they're allowed to stay, that AB and the NHL might someday be seen as successful... and that would just really grind your gears, wouldn't it?

.... .... well, speaking for myself it would grind my gears in a good way. It would be an absolute shame if after 21yrs & the hundreds of millions spent, money, time & emotional investments made by the fans, the inroads made & that are continuing to be made at the grass roots level & the team leaves, pretty sad..... No one knows what the future holds here, and I have my doubts that even the NHL & AB have made any concrete determination, things still very much in flux, a lot of balls in the air. And while the clubs record to date of 2-14-3 is pretty abysmal & wont help them much at the gate its not the end of the world.

There are financial safety nets in place, cannot believe that Bettman & the NHL would have just handed over the keys & approved Barroways heavily leveraged purchase & just thrown him into deep waters, sink or swim. Youve gotta figure he & Patterson in conjunction with the league are out there beating the bushes looking for money, investors. That prospectus probably includes a minority stake in the club with the added sizzle of a new arena & surrounding development & if their being prudent & honest as they'd have to be some of the funding for it would already have to be in place (as in available) be it from Barroways existing lender or maybe someone like Fortress. That the financial building blocks would cover at minimum 60% (or more) of the costs given the history of the club in that market & the current political climate at State & Municipal levels.

Facing a serious headwind, no doubt about it, but if they can pull something off that with some form of equitable public financing, majority private financing rather than having to relocate out of State then ya, that would grind my gears, grind them in a good way. Weve all seen too many markets torched over the years, many here having lived through those disappointments & heartbreaks be it Minnesota, Winnipeg, Quebec or Atlanta. Not something you'd wish on anyone.

 

[tony d]

I saw some highlights from their game last night, thought there was a decent crowd there. Still yeah got to think the saga for this team in Arizona will be over soon. Houston or Seattle should be on watch here.

 

[Llama19]

Hmmm...will the hockey arena be big enough for the Coyotes?

Sun Devil Stadium: ASU hoping for year-round use — hockey, soccer, more

To quote:

"One idea that intrigues ASU is not usually associated with a football stadium. The university has been in contact with officials at Michigan Stadium and Fenway Park because both have hosted NCAA hockey. ASU is interested in doing the same, and more.

“Well, we would do that, have a rink, but we’d have peewee hockey, and we’d do figure skating, and we’d do open public skating, and then we would end with our own hockey teams, our men and women’s hockey teams, playing there,” Jennings-Roggensack said."

Source: www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/tempe-contributor/2017/11/11/sun-devil-stadium-asu-plans-year-round-use-hockey-soccer-more/845836001/

 

[Slashers98]

Just learned that George Gosbee passed away yesterday. Sad news regarding this saga.

 

[Killion]

Just learned that George Gosbee passed away yesterday. Sad news regarding this saga.

Where are you seeing that? I just did a google search, nothing..... Can you find & post a link please Slashers?... You sure you have the right guy?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Where are you seeing that? I just did a google search, nothing..... Can you find & post a link please Slashers?... You sure you have the right guy?

It was first reported by Craig Morgan on Twitter and then confirmed by statements from the NHL league office, along with comments from Anthony LeBlanc to Morgan.

 

[Killion]

It was first reported by Craig Morgan on Twitter and then confirmed by statements from the NHL league office, along with comments from Anthony LeBlanc to Morgan.

Huh. Well thats sad news. Relatively young. No questioning his love of the game & that he did hope to make a difference in Arizona. One of the truly decent people in this whole story.... sorry to trouble anyone but if you can, I'd appreciate some links to whatever if available, when they become available, and I'll keep an eye out as well.... most unfortunate.... Son of a Doctor who'd moved out to Alberta from Ontario.... George doing very well for himself, respected in the community, admired by everyone including his employees, loved Calgary, Alberta & I believe the Coyotes, Arizona... real down to earth nice guy.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Huh. Well thats sad news. Relatively young. No questioning his love of the game & that he did hope to make a difference in Arizona. One of the truly decent people in this whole story.... sorry to trouble anyone but if you can, I'd appreciate some links to whatever if available, when they become available, and I'll keep an eye out as well.... most unfortunate.... Son of a Doctor who'd moved out to Alberta from Ontario.... George doing very well for himself, respected in the community, admired by everyone including his employees, loved Calgary, Alberta & I believe the Coyotes, Arizona... real down to earth nice guy.

 

[Killion]

^^^ Thanks TFP. Sad.

 

[Mightygoose]

Wow only 47. Very sad news....way too young