Player Discussion Phillip Danault - The Centermania Edition

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The Great Weal

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Oh, my bad, I didn't know that it was based on a movie. I have been watching Bizz nasty and Ryan Whitney quite a bit in the last two weeks and man, you should hear the way those guys talk about money. I have watched a couple of guys that talked about winning but most talked a lot about money and partying and upon reading Danault's comments about not really wanting to be sequestered in a hotel for a few months to finish the season I just assumed that his act was related to that.
Apologies if I came off a little hostile, I thought you were more familiar with the app that he used. This is the scene he was reenacting:


It doesn't surprise me that athletes are like that, there are guys like Evander Kane who don't even try to hide that behaviour. There are pictures of him doing push ups with stacks of money on his back.
 

The Great Weal

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Lehkonen played 0:11 pp/game
Weal played 1:58 pp/game
Cousins played 1:35 pp/game
Danault played 1:34 pp/game

But Danault played 1:56 of pp on average/game the last 40 games. He's getting PP time, but he's not that good in that aspect.
It's cherry picking to use the last 40 games. Gallagher(who is considered our best forward) averaged half a minute more than Danault on the PP and has 5 points on the PP(1 more than Danault). If you convert that production to the same amount of games that Danault has played, he would have 6 points.(2 more than Danault with 30 seconds more time per game). The whole PP is not good because the coaching staff is clueless.
 

CristianoRonaldo

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In your head
It's cherry picking to use the last 40 games. Gallagher(who is considered our best forward) averaged half a minute more than Danault on the PP and has 5 points on the PP(1 more than Danault). If you convert that production to the same amount of games that Danault has played, he would have 6 points.(2 more than Danault with 30 seconds more time per game). The whole PP is not good because the coaching staff is clueless.

I don't think it's cherry-picking, Danault was not playing a lot of PP minutes at the beginning of the season, only 1:00 on average, but later on he averaged around 2:00/game for 40 games.
Gallagher has a very useful skill set for the power play, he's great at scoring garbage goals and his eye-hand coordination is top-notch.
Danault is strong along the board, he can protect the puck well, but his passing and shooting abilities are average and unlike Gally, he can't makeup for it.
And yes, the PP sucks mostly because the coaching staff can't set up any strong strategy besides the Weber shot.

Edit: Ok, it's cherry-picking, but it's not dishonest, I only want to show the contrast between the first 30 games and the last 40 one.
 
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Catanddogguitarrr

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A specialist is bullshit. Its a player that is not strong enough to play regular minutes at ES, which means you have to run 11 forwards. Your PP players should come from your top 9ers, nothing else.
No it's your idea of PP that s""ks. Try to think different, nothing is written in concrete ciment, there is always something different that break the rules. Read the history of any sport and you'll see traditional ideas broken. There is revolution everywhere. This apply to culture and science too.
 

Mrb1p

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No it's your idea of PP that s""ks. Try to think different, nothing is written in concrete ciment, there is always something different that break the rules. Read the history of any sport and you'll see traditional ideas broken. There is revolution everywhere. This apply to culture and science too.
Lmao, a pp specialist isnt a new idea and its been proven to suck. Remember MA Bergeron? Heck even streit?
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Lmao, a pp specialist isnt a new idea and its been proven to suck. Remember MA Bergeron? Heck even streit?
MA Bergeron and Gaston Gingras were good assets on the PP but suck at ES. Streit is not a good example if you read the poster before me. Keeping a player who is onl;y usefull at PP isn't a good idea, considering there can be no PP in a game. But the opposite can be good, when you say we need the top- 9 forwards for the PP, having only one player who will not play PP leaves 8 forwards. In the case of the Habs, Suzuki and Domi can perfectly fill the role. The main problem is the lack of a power forward in the team, whatever he is a center or a winger and the lack of creativity, trying all the time to feed Weber with his slapshot.

Your personal vendetta about Danault is getting ridiculous. If there is a problem with this team, look at the back-up goalie, the left D, the second line, the third line, the fourth line, the drafting team and the prospects.
 

kgboomer

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Ha, when I saw this thread constantly go to the top, I thought it was about him whining he was going to be forced to play hockey to earn his $Millions. I should have known better. :laugh:
 

DAChampion

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He had his strengths, but he also had many weakness, early on.

The vast majority of players have weaknesses, and all teams necessarily include players with weaknesses. A good GM and a good coach should work with the players they have and their strengths.

Danault is a very good even strength player. That's great to have.
 

Mrb1p

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MA Bergeron and Gaston Gingras were good assets on the PP but suck at ES. Streit is not a good example if you read the poster before me. Keeping a player who is onl;y usefull at PP isn't a good idea, considering there can be no PP in a game. But the opposite can be good, when you say we need the top- 9 forwards for the PP, having only one player who will not play PP leaves 8 forwards. In the case of the Habs, Suzuki and Domi can perfectly fill the role. The main problem is the lack of a power forward in the team, whatever he is a center or a winger and the lack of creativity, trying all the time to feed Weber with his slapshot.

Your personal vendetta about Danault is getting ridiculous. If there is a problem with this team, look at the back-up goalie, the left D, the second line, the third line, the fourth line, the drafting team and the prospects.

You realize that the better a player is on the PP, he has to be significantly lesser at ES to be considered a third liner, right ? That means that you'd need 8 top 6 caliber forwards, or you'd need to cut down on quality somewhere.

Your top 6 players, the six best forwards on the team, need to all be adequate PP players, be that second wave like Gallagher, or first wave like Drouin, it doesn't matter, but they need to cut it. Danault does not, and f*** it, he doesn't cut it at ES either to anyone that actually bothers to watch him and to look at his production in context. He was on his way to another sub 20 goal seasons while playing the most minutes, with the best wingers. Uh uh. f*** that noise.

The problem has been that the Habs haven't had a top line center ever since the decline of Plekanec and Koivu, and even they weren't good enough. There's years where Plekanec produced similar numbers to Toews, and no one believed that he was even remotely close to a top player in this league, everyone and their mothers labeled him a 2nd line center, now Danault barely scrapes 75% of Plekanecs production in better scoring years and with better players and he's somehow a f***ing 2nd liner.

Ive had it with anyone else that supports still this POC built team, Ive f***ing had it now.


/Thread.

The vast majority of players have weaknesses, and all teams necessarily include players with weaknesses. A good GM and a good coach should work with the players they have and their strengths.

Danault is a very good even strength player. That's great to have.

Great to have on the third line, sure. He's only very good in a bubble when you look at him from a top 6 point of view.
 

Scriptor

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You realize that the better a player is on the PP, he has to be significantly lesser at ES to be considered a third liner, right ? That means that you'd need 8 top 6 caliber forwards, or you'd need to cut down on quality somewhere.

Your top 6 players, the six best forwards on the team, need to all be adequate PP players, be that second wave like Gallagher, or first wave like Drouin, it doesn't matter, but they need to cut it. Danault does not, and f*** it, he doesn't cut it at ES either to anyone that actually bothers to watch him and to look at his production in context. He was on his way to another sub 20 goal seasons while playing the most minutes, with the best wingers. Uh uh. f*** that noise.

The problem has been that the Habs haven't had a top line center ever since the decline of Plekanec and Koivu, and even they weren't good enough. There's years where Plekanec produced similar numbers to Toews, and no one believed that he was even remotely close to a top player in this league, everyone and their mothers labeled him a 2nd line center, now Danault barely scrapes 75% of Plekanecs production in better scoring years and with better players and he's somehow a f***ing 2nd liner.

Ive had it with anyone else that supports still this POC built team, Ive f***ing had it now.


/Thread.



Great to have on the third line, sure. He's only very good in a bubble when you look at him from a top 6 point of view.


Who do you support, then, and why aren't you on their forum?
 

Mrb1p

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Who do you support, then, and why aren't you on their forum?
I support the Habs, not this owner, or this management. Its pretty easy to understand. I can both love something and admit it is not up to my standards, and its not even close to it. 30 years of mediocrity now, with about 4 or 5 years worth noting here in there, where an ex hab legend called the shots, otherwise, nada.

Your opinion is literally devoid of a thought.
 

Mrb1p

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Danault hate makes no sense to me. He’s great defensively and puts up 50 points a year. Kotka is not ready to be a 1C yet. People saying Danault is taking his place are insane. We need to keep him moving forward.
Bergeron is great defensively
Barkov is great defensively
Kopitar is great defensively
Toews is great defensively

Danault is great defensively? No. All those players tilt the ice by themselves, Danault needs a whole line to be "great".

Hes not a cornerstone on a franchise, hes a depth player. Your post makes it seem like hes more than that.
 

JoelWarlord

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Danault hate makes no sense to me. He’s great defensively and puts up 50 points a year. Kotka is not ready to be a 1C yet. People saying Danault is taking his place are insane. We need to keep him moving forward.
Desharnais hate makes no sense to me. He's great with Pacioretty and puts up 60 points a year. Galchenyuk is not ready to be a 1C. People saying Desharnais is taking his place are insane. We need to keep him moving forward.

To be more explicit about what I'm getting at with this joke reply, the point is not and never has been to "hate" Danault, Desharnais, or any player that plays a higher role in Montreal than they would on other teams. The point is you look at every single cup winner of the cap era and they all had a dominant franchise 1C. Danault isn't one of those, and Kotkaniemi has the tools + potential to possibly become one. You aren't winning a cup with Danault as your 1C, so acting like it's blasphemy to consider moving him in the long term interests of the team is silly.
 
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Yarice

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Desharnais hate makes no sense to me. He's great with Pacioretty and puts up 60 points a year. Galchenyuk is not ready to be a 1C. People saying Desharnais is taking his place are insane. We need to keep him moving forward.
Both situation are really not the same. Desharnais was playing sheltered minutes with the team best wingers. Danault is playing hard minutes with the team besr wingers. This is useful, because it can give the rookies easier minutes.

If there is someone blocking Suzuki and Kotkaniemi from playing center, it is Max Domi. Not Danault
 

JoelWarlord

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Both situation are really not the same. Desharnais was playing sheltered minutes with the team best wingers. Danault is playing hard minutes with the team besr wingers. This is useful, because it can give the rookies easier minutes.
The particulars are different but the situation is similar enough that I'm willing to compare it. In Danault and Desharnais you have a player who was able to seize a 1C role through excellent "greater than sum of their parts" chemistry with the teams' best wingers, and then held on to the role and grew into it despite a relatively low ceiling in terms of pure tools. And then you had a #3OA pick with a good rookie year and better tools but not being put further up the lineup at the expense of Desharnais/Danault. The players are different but the underlying issue of being unable to take a short term impact for a chance at the player with better tools taking over the key role is the same.

I also remain unconvinced that Kotkaniemi needs those easy minutes. I realize he got help from Lehkonen/Armia as a rookie but I don't know why there's an idea he needs to be sheltered. Granted he was worse defensively this year, but that (a great rookie year followed up by being plagued with "defensive issues) seems to be a common theme with Canadiens forwards. I just find it hard to believe that the Kotkaniemi who was an excellent and mature defensive C with defensive reads beyond his years as a rookie has suddenly become Jonathan Drouin in his own zone.

If there is someone blocking Suzuki and Kotkaniemi from playing center, it is Max Domi. Not Danault
I don't think so, to me if you're projecting them as C's in a long term role you're looking at Kotkaniemi taking over the Danault/Plekanec role as the two way guy and Suzuki replacing Domi/Desharnais as the sheltered guy (not that I think Suzuki particularly needs to be sheltered either, I think he projects as a much better defensive C than Domi).
 

Catanddogguitarrr

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Bergeron is great defensively
Barkov is great defensively
Kopitar is great defensively
Toews is great defensively

Danault is great defensively? No. All those players tilt the ice by themselves, Danault needs a whole line to be "great".

Hes not a cornerstone on a franchise, hes a depth player. Your post makes it seem like hes more than that.
He is more than a depth player, come on!
Do you realise you compared him to Weal many times? Weal? Really?
 
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