Player Discussion Phillip Danault II: 2nd C? edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

schnapshot

Mendoza baby
Jan 8, 2015
2,075
2,246
Montreal
Maybe he'll impress in the playoffs, maybe not. As it stands he's rather average but progressing very well.
He's not average at all... He'll never be an offensive force but has the tools to become a top-6 center for sure. Good vision, great defensive IQ, great skating, hard worker, not a bad shot.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
He's not average at all... He'll never be an offensive force but has the tools to become a top-6 center for sure. Good vision, great defensive IQ, great skating, hard worker, not a bad shot.
If he's never going to be an offensive force, and he currently has 40 points, and he's never played a game in the playoffs... I don't see how you could have so much hype for him

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense, you're describing Anze Kopitar or Johnny Toews, not Philip Danault.
 

ginomini

Registered User
May 25, 2014
789
833
If he's never going to be an offensive force, and he currently has 40 points, and he's never played a game in the playoffs... I don't see how you could have so much hype for him

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense, you're describing Anze Kopitar or Johnny Toews, not Philip Danault.

So you say Danault has bad vision, is average defensively, poor skating and that he is not really a hard worker ?

c'mon, the guy has his strenght and they happen to be similar to Kopitar, Bergeron and Toews's.

He won't be as good as they are but he is still a very solid center. Like a light version of them. A player like him is absolutely necessary to win a Cup.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
So you say Danault has bad vision, is average defensively, poor skating and that he is not really a hard worker ?
That's not at all what I'm saying. What you just did was an obvious logical fallacy.

The other poster made a crazy aggressive claim, I called them out on it. Danault isn't bad at all, but he's not comparable to Kopitar or Toews. Those words, with that much enthusiasm is usually left for elite players - not 40 point 24 year olds.

c'mon, the guy has his strenght and they happen to be similar to Kopitar, Bergeron and Toews's
He's incomparable to them. Literally incomparable.

He won't be as good as they are but he is still a very solid center. Like a light version of them. A player like him is absolutely necessary to win a Cup.
The Cult of Danault...

He's a 40 point player despite getting top6 ice-time and pairings with decent wingers. He's progressing, he's developing, he might be a real good player next year. But he's a 40 point player today who happens to be on a 4 game/5 point hot streak right now. I really don't see why you guys are worshiping this guy so quickly.
 

ginomini

Registered User
May 25, 2014
789
833
That's not at all what I'm saying. What you just did was an obvious logical fallacy.

The other poster made a crazy aggressive claim, I called them out on it. Danault isn't bad at all, but he's not comparable to Kopitar or Toews. Those words, with that much enthusiasm is usually left for elite players - not 40 point 24 year olds.


He's incomparable to them. Literally incomparable.


The Cult of Danault...

He's a 40 point player despite getting top6 ice-time and pairings with decent wingers. He's progressing, he's developing, he might be a real good player next year. But he's a 40 point player today who happens to be on a 4 game/5 point hot streak right now. I really don't see why you guys are worshiping this guy so quickly.

Why not compare him to bergeron ? he as a similar play style, he is lika a Bergeron lite. 40-45 pts instead of 65pts.

Why can't we be optimistic, the guy came out of no where and as been great all year, not only the last 5 games.

Look at the past Stanley cup winning teams, thay all had solid all around centers who happened to have a hot streak durng the playoffs, wether it was their #1 or their #3 center.

Bergeron and Kelly, Toews and Bolland), Kopitar, Bonino
 

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
10,937
5,387
That's not at all what I'm saying. What you just did was an obvious logical fallacy.

The other poster made a crazy aggressive claim, I called them out on it. Danault isn't bad at all, but he's not comparable to Kopitar or Toews. Those words, with that much enthusiasm is usually left for elite players - not 40 point 24 year olds.


He's incomparable to them. Literally incomparable.


The Cult of Danault...

He's a 40 point player despite getting top6 ice-time and pairings with decent wingers. He's progressing, he's developing, he might be a real good player next year. But he's a 40 point player today who happens to be on a 4 game/5 point hot streak right now. I really don't see why you guys are worshiping this guy so quickly.

Last year 40 points got you 129th place for forwards. 30 teams and 6 top-6 spots means 180 top-6 spots league wide. So in other words an above average 2nd liner.

For me the question marks are, a) Is his production sustainable or is this his career year, b) Can he become a decent PP player, c) how much of his production is from playing with Radulov & Pacioretty

And to answer my own questions
My guess is that without Radulov/Pacioretty he'd probably put up around 25-30 points. I have no idea about the PP he simply hasn't been given enough of a chance to draw any conclusions, he can probably repeat if surround by great players.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Phil Danault is, like, David Legwand.
That's closer to the mark than freaking Patrice Bergeron!

Last year 40 points got you 129th place for forwards. 30 teams and 6 top-6 spots means 180 top-6 spots league wide. So in other words an above average 2nd liner.
This is a very very very inaccurate way to do this. There aren't 30 teams with six legitimate top6 players. You know this because the Habs don't have six legit top6 players. There are injuries, there are budget teams, there are tanking teams, etc.

Danault had 10 points in his career before this year. Can we pump the breaks a little bit ?!

For me the question marks are, a) Is his production sustainable or is this his career year, b) Can he become a decent PP player, c) how much of his production is from playing with Radulov & Pacioretty
Valid questions. I'm asking the same things.

And to answer my own questions
My guess is that without Radulov/Pacioretty he'd probably put up around 25-30 points. I have no idea about the PP he simply hasn't been given enough of a chance to draw any conclusions, he can probably repeat if surround by great players.
I think he can definitely get more than 40 points, but it depends on his own progression. I can't predict where he's going because I barely know where he's coming from and he didn't exactly show glimpses of elite talent this year. He was just quiet and steady and fine.

I think he'll top out at 50 points, which is a good-to-great #2 in today's NHL.

Just stop comparing him to Patrice Bergeron. :facepalm:
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
Last year 40 points got you 129th place for forwards. 30 teams and 6 top-6 spots means 180 top-6 spots league wide. So in other words an above average 2nd liner.

For me the question marks are, a) Is his production sustainable or is this his career year, b) Can he become a decent PP player, c) how much of his production is from playing with Radulov & Pacioretty

And to answer my own questions
My guess is that without Radulov/Pacioretty he'd probably put up around 25-30 points. I have no idea about the PP he simply hasn't been given enough of a chance to draw any conclusions, he can probably repeat if surround by great players.

Danault benefits from playing with Max and Radu, but early on he was also playing really well when he was on the "4th line" with Mitchel and Byron.

Kid is still young as well. Give him PP time and keep him in the top 6 and I think he can be as productive as Pleks. I don't think the kid will be in the McDavid/Crosby/Backstrom tier of course. But no reason we can't have our Pleks replacement. After all these years expecting it to be Eller and turns out we got a guy from Chicago instead.

If he had played the entire year on the 1st line and gotten PP time I think he could easily be at 50 + points.
 

Belial

Registered User
Oct 22, 2014
26,142
14,323
Montreal
Last year 40 points got you 129th place for forwards. 30 teams and 6 top-6 spots means 180 top-6 spots league wide. So in other words an above average 2nd liner.

For me the question marks are, a) Is his production sustainable or is this his career year, b) Can he become a decent PP player, c) how much of his production is from playing with Radulov & Pacioretty

And to answer my own questions
My guess is that without Radulov/Pacioretty he'd probably put up around 25-30 points. I have no idea about the PP he simply hasn't been given enough of a chance to draw any conclusions, he can probably repeat if surround by great players.

This is the problem with stats quite often. People see a couple of stars getting ~90 points and assume this is the benchmark for so-called first line players.

When you actually make a deeper research you will perceive that scoring is really low around the league.

50 to 60 points is first line material!

Over 40 points is solid second line production...
 

dackelljuneaubulis02

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
11,393
6,600
That's great for a 2nd line center. A first line center must drive the PP.

I still woudn't say he's a bonafide #2 C but he's doing a damn fine impersonation right now. Let's see how he progresses. It's definitely not out of the realms of possibility from what I've seen. His lack of sheer skill is made up for by his compete and skating. His ES goal scoring is as good as some good names as well.

Still a great trade but can turn into out and out highway robbery if he can be a solid #2 C.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
I still woudn't say he's a bonafide #2 C but he's doing a damn fine impersonation right now. Let's see how he progresses. It's definitely not out of the realms of possibility from what I've seen. His lack of sheer skill is made up for by his compete and skating. His ES goal scoring is as good as some good names as well.

Still a great trade but can turn into out and out highway robbery if he can be a solid #2 C.

I disagree about lack of skill. I think PD has lots of skill. He is also pugnacious on the puck and uses his body really well.

IMHO 40 points and his defensive play already puts him at a solid 2C. Now he needs to show the consistency in his game. Can he get 40+ again next year? Thats the real question.

But a big steal from Chicago. To think the kid had like 5 points with the habs last year and their were questions if he could be good enough to center the 3rd line. So glad to see he has proved his critics wrong.
 

ginomini

Registered User
May 25, 2014
789
833
Danault had 10 points in his career before this year. Can we pump the breaks a little bit ?!


Just stop comparing him to Patrice Bergeron. :facepalm:



Why does the number of points he had before this year mather? You no...break out seasons happen once in a while.


Do you understand the difference between comparing play style and talent/impact?
 

Adam Michaels

Registered User
Jun 12, 2016
77,259
123,946
Montreal
I can definitely see Danault be the 2C down the road. I've said as much before. As for now, I'm fine with him being 1C because it simply works with Pacioretty and Radulov.

He shouldn't just be looked at as someone benefiting from playing with 67 and 47. He was producing at the start of the year with Mitchell/Byron/Flynn. He was also producing with Shaw and Pacioretty. In fact, after trying him with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, and Desharnais, it wasn't until he got on a line with Danault that he started going.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
40 pts might have been in top-6 territory last season, but how abou PPG? A 38 pys player who played 58 games is still definitely more a top-6er than 40 pts in a complete season.
 

ECWHSWI

TOUGHEN UP.
Oct 27, 2006
28,604
5,423
I can definitely see Danault be the 2C down the road. I've said as much before. As for now, I'm fine with him being 1C because it simply works with Pacioretty and Radulov.

He shouldn't just be looked at as someone benefiting from playing with 67 and 47. He was producing at the start of the year with Mitchell/Byron/Flynn. He was also producing with Shaw and Pacioretty. In fact, after trying him with Galchenyuk, Plekanec, and Desharnais, it wasn't until he got on a line with Danault that he started going.

what was his production like ?
 

Adam Michaels

Registered User
Jun 12, 2016
77,259
123,946
Montreal
what was his production like ?

He played the first 13 games of the season with Mitchell and either the other winger was Byron or Flynn.

In those 13 games, he had 6 points (3G 3A) and a +4 as a fourth liner where he played anywhere between 10 to 15 minutes a night. No PP.
 

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
10,937
5,387
This is a very very very inaccurate way to do this. There aren't 30 teams with six legitimate top6 players. You know this because the Habs don't have six legit top6 players. There are injuries, there are budget teams, there are tanking teams, etc.

It's completely accurate to say there are 180 top-6 forwards in the league. How you determine who the best 180 players are is of course debatable.

The misconception about "legitimate" top-six players is because being a top-6 forward by itself isn't a massive accomplishment, the worst top-6 forward is basically league average. The difference between a contending team and a bubble team isn't the number of top-6 players it's the quality of them.
 

dackelljuneaubulis02

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
11,393
6,600
I disagree about lack of skill. I think PD has lots of skill. He is also pugnacious on the puck and uses his body really well.

IMHO 40 points and his defensive play already puts him at a solid 2C. Now he needs to show the consistency in his game. Can he get 40+ again next year? Thats the real question.

But a big steal from Chicago. To think the kid had like 5 points with the habs last year and their were questions if he could be good enough to center the 3rd line. So glad to see he has proved his critics wrong.

I wouldn't say lots but he's a very solid playmaker. Can make some smart passes. Keeps it simple and effective. Can put the puck in the net. I don't think it's quite lacking but he's definitely not a 'skill guy'.

Yeah if he can play similar to this and/or improve then I think he can be a solid #2. Really interesting to see his ceiling.

I'll pat myself on the back and say I liked him from the get go. I'm pretty sure Redux91 was really high on him too. More high than I was or just about anyone. He called him a stud or something close to that. I was pretty confident he could be an upgrade on Eller but no way did I think he could center a top line as well as he has. He DOES have the benefit of two great wingers but I think he's been pretty vital to that line. He's such a treat to watch.

I'm pretty confident that many of the skeptics aren't the biggest fans of MB so they're a bit reluctant to really jump the gun. Not all of them but if you think MB is one of the worst GMs the Habs have had you couldn't also think that Danault's a top 6 C because if MB got a top 2 C and a 2nd rounder for Dutch and Flash then you'd have to really reconsider your stance on MB. Because that would be one of the better trades we've made in recent history.
 

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
10,937
5,387
He played the first 13 games of the season with Mitchell and either the other winger was Byron or Flynn.

In those 13 games, he had 6 points (3G 3A) and a +4 as a fourth liner where he played anywhere between 10 to 15 minutes a night. No PP.

Well Torrey Mitchell also had 6 points in those 13 games, I don't think we can read much into it besides the line had a hot streak.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
I wouldn't say lots but he's a very solid playmaker. Can make some smart passes. Keeps it simple and effective. Can put the puck in the net. I don't think it's quite lacking but he's definitely not a 'skill guy'.

Yeah if he can play similar to this and/or improve then I think he can be a solid #2. Really interesting to see his ceiling.

I'll pat myself on the back and say I liked him from the get go. I'm pretty sure Redux91 was really high on him too. More high than I was or just about anyone. He called him a stud or something close to that. I was pretty confident he could be an upgrade on Eller but no way did I think he could center a top line as well as he has. He DOES have the benefit of two great wingers but I think he's been pretty vital to that line. He's such a treat to watch.

I'm pretty confident that many of the skeptics aren't the biggest fans of MB so they're a bit reluctant to really jump the gun. Not all of them but if you think MB is one of the worst GMs the Habs have had you couldn't also think that Danault's a top 6 C because if MB got a top 2 C and a 2nd rounder for Dutch and Flash then you'd have to really reconsider your stance on MB. Because that would be one of the better trades we've made in recent history.
I'm trying to de-politicize myself for precisely the reason you point out in your last paragraph.

But the point remains that he's essentially a sophomore and Chicago gave up on him and he's played with good players here. DD also produced.

I'm hesitant to praise him or pencil him in as a future top contribuer just as I was hesitant to do it with any other promising but not there yet player.

Remember that he's 24, not 19. He doesn't have much time left to burst out. If he remains what he is that's totally fine too, he's a good NHLer.
 

Adam Michaels

Registered User
Jun 12, 2016
77,259
123,946
Montreal
Well Torrey Mitchell also had 6 points in those 13 games, I don't think we can read much into it besides the line had a hot streak.

The point of the exercise was to show that Danault isn't only producing because he's with Pacioretty & Radulov. He's been producing with everyone he's played with, including the 4th line.

While I like Mitchell, he has also played with others but he wasn't producing, whereas Danault has.

And yes, that line was hot, but you attribute that to the players playing on that line. The 4th line on opening night had Danault and Byron on it. They both had a great season, so that 4th line was hot thanks to these guys.
 

scrubadam

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
12,438
1,904
I wouldn't say lots but he's a very solid playmaker. Can make some smart passes. Keeps it simple and effective. Can put the puck in the net. I don't think it's quite lacking but he's definitely not a 'skill guy'.

Yeah if he can play similar to this and/or improve then I think he can be a solid #2. Really interesting to see his ceiling.

I'll pat myself on the back and say I liked him from the get go. I'm pretty sure Redux91 was really high on him too. More high than I was or just about anyone. He called him a stud or something close to that. I was pretty confident he could be an upgrade on Eller but no way did I think he could center a top line as well as he has. He DOES have the benefit of two great wingers but I think he's been pretty vital to that line. He's such a treat to watch.

I'm pretty confident that many of the skeptics aren't the biggest fans of MB so they're a bit reluctant to really jump the gun. Not all of them but if you think MB is one of the worst GMs the Habs have had you couldn't also think that Danault's a top 6 C because if MB got a top 2 C and a 2nd rounder for Dutch and Flash then you'd have to really reconsider your stance on MB. Because that would be one of the better trades we've made in recent history.

Maybe more of a blue collar guy. He doesn't have the skill of a Radu or Chucky, but he has a ton of other strengths in his game.

I think he is a bit underrated because some still think he is the player who had 10 points last year. Danault has taken a huge leap forward in his game. I think he benefits more from the mental side of playing with 2 elite players rather then their skill so much. I mean you have to learn something when you are on the Ice with Max and Radu no?

Wonder if he can become a playoff hero. That will be the next step for him.

Adding Byron and Danault for nearly nothing was a great move by MB.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->